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Hi

The built in sound on my digital piano stinks, so I've hooked it up to my computer via MIDI.

Now....I want to equip myself with the best possible piano software in my budget. I play classical piano and don't need it to sit in a mix. It would purely be for my playing pleasure.

It's a minefield of choices out there so I defer to the judgment of the forum and ypur experiences! I am on a Mac and have seen names like Ivory II and Pianoteq among many many others. I don't want to be able to tweak everything so long as I can have an authentic sound and feel through adjustable velocity curve.

If you were me, what would be in your shortlist to try?

Thanks in advance
Dave

For some well-priced options that aren't always mentioned, I would check

http://acousticsamples.net/keys/kawai-ex-pro

and

http://www.xlnaudio.com/products/instrument/studio_grand

[color:#3366FF][b]Garritan CFX [/color][/b]

[color:#3366FF][b]VI Labs Ravenscroft 275[/color][/b]

[b][color:#3366FF]Native Instruments Difinitive Piano Collection[/color][/b]

An oldie but a goodie. Not up to recent specs, but a lot of character. But you'd need NI's Kontakt (or import into EXS24 if you are using Logic) and if they are still selling it on CD ROM you need to borrow a drive. Not recommending this if it's too much hassle, it's just a cool sounding library that I did use at one point.
[b][color:#3366FF]Art Vista Malmsjo[/color][/b]

I'll second that recommendation of the Kawai EX Pro. It's one of my favorites.

If your using a Mac the pianos in Mainstage 3 are very good and the software is only $29.99 USD.
I also own the xln audio studio grand anotherscott pointed to its very good, I have it in the "addictive keys" bundle.
Ivory II American D $189 USD is excellent as well.

Hi, I'll give you my opinion too, but first you should specify something if you want to achieve good results. How are you going to listen to it? Via headphones, via external speakers, via built-in speakers?
I ask because you can have a very good sound with a decent pair of headphones. If you are using a pair of relatively cheap external speakers, even the best software piano might kind of "stink". For instance, with 100-200 dollars (or equivalent) you can buy pretty decent headphones, but only rather mediocre external speakers. I would probably not even consider built-in speakers given what you said above.

I have a decent set of active monitors and headphones. Sorry, I should have mentioned that.

Do a few searches and you'll find a lot of responses to this sort of question.

But ... in a nutshell, I would suggest that the following should be considered:

1) Ivory II American D (big, bold, great sustain)
2) Galaxy Vintage D (low latency, steinway sound)
3) Garritan CFX (Brighter Yamaha sound)

... in that order.

I personally use Ivory II (German D) and enjoy it the most. After that I like American D next.

Others that I would pass on:

Kawai EX
Ravenscroft
Alicia's Keys
Pianoteq

But I would recommend that you download the free Pianoteq demo software and try it out. It plays very nicely but doesn't have the richness of sound that the others have. It's getting better however!

I have 8' studio monitors and headphones but I use headphones more than I do the studio monitors. The sound really comes through nicely on headphones. I have been a little disappointed with the results through the speakers.

Conspicuously missing: a Bosendorfer. There are several available. I have the one that came in the Ivory 1.x set. Also the Fazioli from that same set.

Do these exist in the Ivory 2 edition?

You don't specify, but my experience is that people tend to overestimate their external monitors... However I'll assume you have very good ones.

The best piano in my opinion is Ivory American (the only one that can beat it is out of your stated budget), which I believe is excellent for any style, not just classical music (but opinions can vary)
Then come the other 2 Ivory II, German (Steinway) (which you can test on ipad if you have one, I remember replying to one of your questions about that) but which is probably too expensive on a pc, because bundled with 2 other inferior pianos, and Italian (Fazioli), sold as standalone.
Then there is the older Vintage D (Steinway) which offers good value for money, but in my opinion is not up to Ivory American. A similar piano is the Ni Grandeur, which I believe was made by the same people that made Vintage D.

Some of the other pianos mentioned are decent but are in another (lower) league (Ex Pro, Addictive Keys, etc). I have them and use them every now and then and do not regret purchasing them.

I would suggest to avoid Ravenscroft, which I regret purchasing.

Pianoteq you can try yourself, so you don't need any advice on that.

Garritan CFX is the only one I don't know.

NI's Grandeur is part of the definitive collection I mentioned above. The other two pianos purposefully are of different character and the bundle is decently priced.

I like the sound of the new Ravenscroft from VI Labs. You'll have to share what exactly has turned you off?. Sound?. Performance? Needing an iLock?

There are 3 pianos in the Ivory 2 Grand Pianos product.

- Bösendorfer 290 Imperial Grand
- Steinway D Concert Grand
- Yamaha c7 Grand

But - the Bos and the Yamaha are just underwhelming in every way. They just lack energy and interest. At least that's how I felt about them. But the Steinway D (a sampled Hamberg D) remains my favorite sampled piano. I played Ivory II American D for about 6 months but eventually found my way back to the German D. Subjective preference, I suspect.

I don't own the new NI products but they certainly look and sound interesting.

Ravenscroft has its appeal, but it has a rather metallic sound.

Only that you _should_ try it yourself! It's free -- complete, except for some A-flat and B-flat keys.

Some of the instruments in the Pianoteq "KiVIR" collection might sound rather nice on the Debussy you list.

Thanks for all your responses. I now realise that I was useless at describing my setup and now know why a lot of you list it in your signature. I'm learning!

My setup currently is...

- Korg LP180 linked via MIDI interface to..
- Late 2007 big screen imac (2GB RAM and lots of available drive space)
- Logic Pro and Kontakt
- Software pianos: NI The Giant, The Maverick, The Grandeur. Soundiron Emotional Piano. Addictive Keys.
- Samson Resolv 40a monitors
- MAudio USB audio interface

I used to be interested in hobby production but now just want a nice piano performance setup purely for playing pleasure where I don't have this endless faffing to get it sounding good to my ears. Looking at it now, I should probably look to upgrade my speakers and headphones I already own a lot of the software you have mentioned.

So I guess what I should ask for now are your speaker recommendations in the similar budget...please! Active monitors or active hifi speakers? I get confuzzled!? Thanks again.

Dave, you say you have NI The Giant, The Maverick, and The Grandeur. The last two of them have already been recommended to you, they are included in the Definite Piano Collection from NI. May I ask, don't you like them?

You don't mention your headphones, does this mean you mainly play with speakers? (and that that's what you are mainly interested in?)
If so, it's not going to be easy. Not only you need spend quite a lot of money, but you also need to place the speakers correctly and have and adequate room for that. You also have a pretty old computer which will struggle with some of the suggested pianos at high specs. It might not be in your budget but if you really play a lot without headphones my suggestion would be to upgrade to a console piano like the Kawai CA95/97 instead of buying new speakers. It will give you a great sound experience, you will feel more connected to the piano than with (even expensive) external speakers (and you can even your the built-in speakers for your software pianos). And you will get a much more realistic action at the same time....

That's how the ravenscroft comes across to me a little as well, a bit clinical and cold. Perhaps, it is those titanium strings they use in that piano in real life in part that makes it so.

I don't know the ravenscroft first hand or anything, but when I listed to the samples and reviews, that's the impression I get. It's the kind of sound that makes me think, there is nothing wrong with it as such, but it doesn't speak to me with a soul either, not in the same way as the Ivory American does ( for me ), which has a character and tone I just like, so I scratched the ravenscroft from my list as a contender at the time.

Same to some degree with yamaha grands, the CFX may be among the high quality ones for the depth and detail from what I heard. I heard some samples and snippets by Dire tonic too of single tones, again though, yamaha grands or not my first choice , very nice of course, if I had a real CFX in my house I'd love it and have no complaints , but not my first choice.

For classical mainly, when I hear it played by those that can do it properly ( not me, may be a little bit in many years time ) I like a bit of a woody nature and/or darker pianos generally, Bosendorfers I really like from what I hear of them, Bechstein too, I heard the Maverick by NI based on a Bechstein, never really mentioned here, but one I liked from what I heard on soundcloud of it as well, more so than the Grandeur.

Rather than me saying it, there is an interview by Valentina lisitsa (on youtube somewhere) saying why she likes the bosendorfer so much, and pointed to the fact in the sense that it is easier to make a darker piano sound bright, but not the other way round. I grinned when I heard her say that, in the sense I feel that was my sort of feeling when I listen to many pianos, but rather have her say it than hearing from a beginner.

I note some of the modern brighter grands seem to not have that much timbre variation across dynamic range, as one expert I recall saying, some pianos behave more like it just has a volume slider, but not much character change, just like some of the digitals come across too, it is just how they can be in reality as well I realise. Actually, this is one area where the Ivory American does fall a little short as well IMHO, I am not criticising the sampling, the real piano may well be like that, but in the very soft area it does not darken like some of the others do. It is a feature I really like a piano to have.

on a side note, in pianoteq I very much like the 3 sliders for the hammers ( only in standard and up edition ), where you can make it as dark as you like from soft and upwards, and get it to brighten to whatever level you desire over the range. Very nice. One of the reasons I got it after trying the standard demo again for a few weeks, and upgraded to it the other day (birthday treat), amongst the many other things you can pimp.

Character in virtual pianos, I suppose it is no different when a pianist buys a real grand from what I gather (not that I ever had the privilege), they'll play 10 or so in a shop, and pick one for whatever personal reason because it speaks to them, same with a violins , other instruments, etc.

TruePiano has a free 40 day download - its worth a try