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#2437628 - 07/01/15 09:32 PM What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert?
nylan3 Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 06/13/15
Posts: 4
Loc: Sweden
Hi! What is the difference between the "Roland PHA IV Premium action" (can be found in HP504) and the "Roland PHA IV Concert action (HP506)"?

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#2437705 - 07/02/15 03:37 AM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
lophiomys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 353
Loc: Austria, EU
That still is a big question.
Tell us if you have found out for sure.

There is a thread discussing this topic somewhere. Cant find it right now.

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#2437717 - 07/02/15 05:07 AM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
Leonid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 5
Difference in trim. PHA-4 Concert - white keys - two layer ivory feel construction on stable wood like basis, black keys - wooden like moisture absorbing coating. Premium - one layer ivory feel construction and just matte black keys.

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#2437751 - 07/02/15 07:35 AM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
JEB NYC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 48
This guy seems to think that there is a difference between the two, beyond the trim, that is noticeable:

The best key action, which is in the HP506 & HP508, is called Concert Keyboard (an appropriate name actually). The key action in the HP504 is called Premium Keyboard. The difference between the two is that the Concert Keyboard in the HP506 & HP508 feels even more like a grand piano to me and the Premium Keyboard action in the HP504 (below left pic) is just slightly less like a grand piano compared to the Concert Key Action, but still very enjoyable to play and much better than most other brands in its price range.

No idea if he is right though; I could only find examples of the Concert when I was in the market recently.

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#2437835 - 07/02/15 12:40 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2511
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Ahh, Tim Praskins. The salesman who pretends to be the purveyor of independent advice.

All the Roland PHA-IV actions will be mechanically and structurally the same. Only differences will be appearance (side of the keys to give the appearance of wood) or key surface. At the moment they use 'premium' and 'concert' nomenclature. It used to be 'standard' and 'deluxe'. It's just words. They are the same actions.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2437841 - 07/02/15 12:56 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: EssBrace]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2188
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By EssBrace
Ahh, Tim Praskins. The salesman who pretends to be the purveyor of independent advice.

All the Roland PHA-IV actions will be mechanically and structurally the same. Only differences will be appearance (side of the keys to give the appearance of wood) or key surface. At the moment they use 'premium' and 'concert' nomenclature. It used to be 'standard' and 'deluxe'. It's just words. They are the same actions.


This may be true for the top two verions: Premium & Concert (can't remember which is supposed to be better).

However, now that ALL Roland's actions are subsumed under the PHAIV name, I'm not sure your evaluation includes the other one: PHAIV Standard. This is a redesign (and reputedly a significant improvement) of Ivory G Feel (and not PHAIII) and therefore, probably markedly different from the other two PHAIV types.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#2437845 - 07/02/15 01:14 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2511
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yes I accept there will be a cheaper/lighter Roland action. And whatever it is they keep renaming it!

If they are using 'PHA-IV Standard' for that it could certainly be misleading. Because 'PHA-III Standard' was just like any other PHA-III except for the fact the white keys were all one colour and therefore didn't simulate the appearance of wood along the sides.

I'll put money on 'PHA-IV Premium' and 'PHA-IV Concert' being mechanically identical.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2437854 - 07/02/15 01:30 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: EssBrace]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2188
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By EssBrace
I'll put money on 'PHA-IV Premium' and 'PHA-IV Concert' being mechanically identical.


That's what I'd have thought - somewhat similar to the HP302/305/307 some years back which had the similar-feeling PHAII or PHAIII. But I'm sure someone a little while back posted here that the HP 506 & 508 PHAIV Concert) were much better than the HP504 (PHAIV Premium*). So it goes on - we never seem quite to get to the bottom of this. smile

*seems anyway that the premium action from Roland now is 'Concert' since they put 'Premium' on the cheapest of their main HP range, thus implying that it is premium in name only.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#2437862 - 07/02/15 01:47 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2511
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yes I suspect that the basic architecture of the top end Roland actions (and indeed Yamaha GH(3) types) have remained unchanged for a number of years now. There have been small changes in appearance and key surface and of course sensor implementation. But the main changes have been the ridiculous name changes! The PHA-IV "innovation" seems to be that it is quieter. No doubt achieved by a thicker strip of felt. How radical!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2438013 - 07/02/15 09:11 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: Leonid]
Jay Roland Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 525
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
Originally Posted By Leonid
Difference in trim. PHA-4 Concert - white keys - two layer ivory feel construction on stable wood like basis, black keys - wooden like moisture absorbing coating. Premium - one layer ivory feel construction and just matte black keys.



Pretty accurate right there.

I don't feel any appreciable difference between the premium and concert variants as the underlying mechanics are the same.

Jay
_________________________
Alberta/BC North Factory Sales Rep for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca

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#2438021 - 07/02/15 09:23 PM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
Jay Roland Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 525
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
The measures taken to reduce the key noise on the newer PHA-4 is actually quite ingenious...

Far more than a "strip of felt"

I'm on vacation. We'll discuss this further in the future.

Jay
_________________________
Alberta/BC North Factory Sales Rep for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca

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#2438093 - Yesterday at 04:45 AM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: Jay Roland]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2511
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By Jay Roland
The measures taken to reduce the key noise on the newer PHA-4 is actually quite ingenious...

Far more than a "strip of felt"

I'm on vacation. We'll discuss this further in the future.

Jay


Intriguing!

Look forward to further detail Jay. I played the RD-800 briefly a couple of weeks ago. Action was very good indeed. I think Roland has developed the basic plastic/metal DP type action (where the hammer assembly is largely underneath the key) to the ultimate. I really think it's the best of its type.

As far as the quietness issue I'm glad they've found an engineered solution. Too much felt gives a squishy feel that I don't think is very piano-like.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2438119 - Yesterday at 07:53 AM Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
Leonid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 5
I have tried almost all competitors, and in my opinion RD-800 keyboard(PHA-IV concert grand) is the best you can find. the only i havent tried , is MP-11 - but its too heavy instrument, wasn't interested in it.

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#2438445 - 47 minutes 15 seconds ago Re: What is the difference between PHA IV Premium and Concert? [Re: nylan3]
nylan3 Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 06/13/15
Posts: 4
Loc: Sweden
Hm, okay thanks for all the answers! I definitely look forward to more detailed information from Jay in the future!

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