|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
71 members (36251, Bruce Sato, Carey, 20/20 Vision, AlkansBookcase, bcalvanese, brdwyguy, amc252, akse0435, 11 invisible),
2,080
guests, and
315
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
My neighbor's house was bisected by a large tree yesterday during a storm, which has me thinking . . .
What steps should a piano owner take for an extended period of having a tarp over a hole in the roof during summer or winter with compromised heating/cooling/humidity control? This is assuming the piano wasn't initially damaged, of course.
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105 |
It is unfortunate that this happened to your neighbor, and you ask a good question.
I work in the field of HVACR and have some engineering background in heat transfer and indoor air quality. Most houses/apartments have some outdoor air infiltration (air leaks through small cracks and crevasses in walls, windows, doors, ceilings, floors, roofs, etc...) where air can get in and out of the structure/envelope. Newer homes, which have to meet minimum air leakage standards, can be so air tight they have to have mechanical ventilation (bringing in minimum outside air for air quality/ventilation purposes).
Air leakage in homes is tested by a procedure called a "blower door test' where the house is sealed/closed up as much as possible and then pressurized with a blower door fan; the pressure difference between the indoor and outdoor pressure is measured in Pascals with a sensitive instrument for measuring small pressure differences. There are minimum air-leakage standards set by the International building codes in conjunction with the US department of energy.
Now, back to your question...
A lot of outside air can creep in through a small area due to pressure changes between the inside and outside. A big hole in the roof with a temporary tarp could allow lots of outside air inside the house, depending on whether the ceiling cavity was penetrated/damaged.
As long as the roof tarp is temporary and not in place for an extended amount of time, there should not be a big problem maintaining a proper environment for the piano. If it is for an extended period of time, and the breach affects the whole house environment, one may need a dehumidifier for the room where the piano is located.
The battery operated, digital hygrometer/thermometers are not expensive and I have one in each room where my pianos are located. If the %RH gets too far out of parameters, one can take appropriate action.
However, a big hole in the roof covered by a tarp should not remain that way for long periods of time...
Hope this helps.
Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,257
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,257 |
My neighbor's house was bisected by a large tree yesterday during a storm, which has me thinking . . .
In NoVa, I presume …
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
Neighbor has a vertical gash centered in the back wall of his house, roof to foundation, with--I suspect--severe structural damage beyond the roof structure, since the deck to one side collapsed toward the house (tree bowed the wall inward detaching deck from the wall). I feel for him.
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060 |
That happened to a friend of mine this year, not long after he had remodeled their house.
Semipro Tech
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236 |
When I am asked about this type of event involving a piano, I suggest removing the piano for the time of construction and exposure. It is a safe recommendation that is not terribly expensive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 |
Neighbor has a vertical gash centered in the back wall of his house, roof to foundation, with--I suspect--severe structural damage beyond the roof structure, since the deck to one side collapsed toward the house (tree bowed the wall inward detaching deck from the wall). I feel for him. We really need pictures of this!
Cello, Piano, Electric Bass
1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
View of neighbor over my hedge. Trunk was very near back of house, and entire roof has a gash. Previous owner to this one did have an upright piano. Tree has been cut up and removed over two days (bucket truck and Bobcat), and a very large tarp is over the roof, back wall of house.
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105 |
This is very unfortunate and I feel for the owners of the house.
In regards to the premise of this thread, I'd say the house was now more akin to a barn than a house (at least until it is all repaired).
Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
I think Rich G. is right about moving a piano out of such an environment. But even getting a grand piano out of the house, in this case, would be difficult (tree fell centered on front door, about seven steps up).
Rickster, I have seen "mere" holes poked in relatively intact houses which, one tarped, would have a controllable environment.
As far as the hierarchy of needs goes, lives and the house are far above a piano--unless it's one of those $100,000 ones!
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105 |
Rickster, I have seen "mere" holes poked in relatively intact houses which, one tarped, would have a controllable environment. Very true, but at what cost? Home environmental systems (HVAC) are the most expensive utility of all. Of course, I'm not being contrary, just stating my opinion. According to some sources, the most energy wasted in the USA is through poorly insulated homes as well as sloppy, lose, poorly installed and maintained HVAC systems in homes and other buildings. Just my .02 Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
I meant controllable by temporary room dehumidification for a pianoforte. 😀
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,105 |
I meant controllable by temporary room dehumidification. Point well taken... Of course, I've seen some people leave the blue tarp on the hole in the roof permanently, or at least for long periods of time. Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714 |
In our (at one time since we have now joined the California drought) moist climate houses that have joined the "Blue Tarp Club" start to get some serious mold issues. YUK!!!
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272 |
I think Rich G. is right about moving a piano out of such an environment. But even getting a grand piano out of the house, in this case, would be difficult (tree fell centered on front door, about seven steps up). Could the piano be moved to a different room, one that can be better controlled?
-- J.S. Knabe Grand # 10927 Yamaha CP33 Kawai FS690
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201
3000 Post Club Member
|
OP
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,201 |
I think Rich G. is right about moving a piano out of such an environment. But even getting a grand piano out of the house, in this case, would be difficult (tree fell centered on front door, about seven steps up). Could the piano be moved to a different room, one that can be better controlled? This is a hypothetical topic, as far as pianos go--my neighbor has a very real tree thru his house, but no piano. Had he piano, this would probably get into an insurance replacement situation, like the recent thread on the smoke damaged piano. The house is literally sliced in two. I've seen some people leave the blue tarp on the hole in the roof permanently, or at least for long periods of time. My neighbor has "mitigated damages" with a tarp. No other action yet, which is puzzling. Before long his mitigation will need remitigating.
WhoDwaldi Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272 |
The moral of the story is, whether you have a piano or not, trees can be dangerous. If you have any within striking distance of your house, get 'em checked by an arborist.
-- J.S. Knabe Grand # 10927 Yamaha CP33 Kawai FS690
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,282
Members111,634
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|