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Originally Posted by Justin_B
His grand has a pretty light action, quite comparable to my digital - but yeah, good point, it's something we should concentrate on doing on his grand also because of how it sounds. Unfortunately, here in Germany it's now the summer holiday, so I won't have another lesson until September.

Since posting, I have realized after practicing that playing forte is really a problem: I realize now that during slow practice I really strain to get forte (even holding breath, and pushing quite a bit). My hands and fingers are tense and even a little sore. So I'm doing something wrong!



Definitely you need to be shown how to play forte without added strain. This has to do with using arm weight vs. sheer strength.

Also, try to do at least some practicing without headphones and be sure the volume is cranked up to at least 75%. This will help with adjusting to the volume of playing, but still the technique of how to play needs to be addressed by your teacher. Ask him about this at your next lesson.


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Originally Posted by outo
Sure I can "let go" if I decide to, but it always ends up in a total disaster, because I cannot recover at all from inevitable mistakes ...


This probably works better with popular music than classical, but one mistake recovery technique is simply to keep going playing a scale. Guess if your mistake note was too low or too high, then play up or down the scale. Go with the diatonic scale if the piece doesn't have many accidentals, or chromatic if it does. There are only a dozen notes, so chances are you'll encounter the right one fairly soon. Sometimes soon enough to keep going and have the mistake sound like a deliberate embellishment, if you're lucky.

This helps even if the only thing you get from it is breaking the habit of stopping at mistakes.



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This subject also really speaks to the level of preparedness required. Ever heard "familiarity breeds contempt?" Or "repeat at neaseuim?" To know a piece, means to learn it and then some.


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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by outo
Sure I can "let go" if I decide to, but it always ends up in a total disaster, because I cannot recover at all from inevitable mistakes ...


This probably works better with popular music than classical, but one mistake recovery technique is simply to keep going playing a scale. Guess if your mistake note was too low or too high, then play up or down the scale. Go with the diatonic scale if the piece doesn't have many accidentals, or chromatic if it does. There are only a dozen notes, so chances are you'll encounter the right one fairly soon. Sometimes soon enough to keep going and have the mistake sound like a deliberate embellishment, if you're lucky.

This helps even if the only thing you get from it is breaking the habit of stopping at mistakes.



I only play classical... I can recover if I don't get a major memory failure, but that happens often. It doesn't have to be a wrong note even, a bad tone or a balance issue can throw me off track. Sometimes I think I should learn how NOT to listen to my playing...

Also I am a hopeless perfectionist, so faking is too hard...psychologically impossible for me. I've tried to work on that side of my personality, but with little success grin

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Thanks again everyone! I asked my piano teacher and he wrote back that I don't seem to have an inner calm, that probably I put a lot of pressure on myself to not make mistakes and therefore I make more mistakes.

He said that actually how I play forte is not a problem - but I think that's because when I play on his grand, I may play differently. Seems like the forte is a separate issue. I can't remember if I strain to play forte on his grand the way I do on my own digital piano, I have to check. I'm going to try to play without headphones often, because I think that distorts how I play...

Related to the mistakes: I just finished reading Charles Rosen's book Piano Notes, and he writes of he would practice while reading a book! His goal with a piece was to know a piece so well you could play it 'while thinking about what to have for dinner'. Only then 'could you think about adding expression'. This was a big surprise to read, because I always thought you had to practice a piece carefully and mindfully even when playing up to tempo - I never have trouble carefully learning a piece slowly, but I always have trouble bringing a piece up to tempo and playing with expression properly. Maybe it's because I try to practice a piece at tempo and I'm simply concentrating too much?

To answer an earlier question: I'm learning Bach's Invention no 4, and trying now to bring the piece up to tempo (been learning the piece for a couple of months now) while practicing the long trills separately.

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I agree with the posters who say practicing the piece more will give you confidence. My son practiced a difficult piece (for him) probably 10 hours over the course of a week and I recorded his progress each day. It's amazing to see the difference in his confidence level in a single week. If you compare the first and last recording, you would think you are watching two different kids.


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Originally Posted by Justin B
...I always have trouble bringing a piece up to tempo...
Bringing pieces up to tempo generally means playing faster than you can. Of course it introduces errors. It's better to practise until you can play it faster and then let the tempo come up. Don't chase the metronome, set it to a speed you can play at and raise it when you can play faster.

If you're struggling to get all the notes in, drop some during practise to get the tempo of the melody in your head and your hands. Practise the Moonlight adagio without the triplets, for example, to understand that the adagio relates to the melody not the triplets.

Originally Posted by Justin B
...and playing with expression properly. Maybe it's because I try to practice a piece at tempo and I'm simply concentrating too much?
You can't concentrate too much. Again, don't try to play at tempo, play at a speed you can.

I don't practise like Charles Rosen and I wouldn't. I never practise without expression or interpretation. I strip each phrase down to it's fundamental components, the melody notes that occur on beats, find out where the climax is (mostly the highest note on a main beat but not always) and build the beat notes towards it and away from it. Then add the bass, then the accompaniment, etc.

Working with melody only or melody plus bass gets the right tempo for the piece and builds it into the fingers. Adding the accompaniment then shows up where the technical difficulties are and what or how to practise. But getting the dynamics and articulation right makes the tempo less important to a successful interpretation.

If you take only three notes per bar for Bach's Invention No. 4, which is in 3/8 time, it will show much more clearly where the climaxes are and what the tempo should be.

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I've used fingering to make sure you're using the same fingers as when playing the piece as written but they may not be the same as yours.

The principal RH notes are the first ones of each measure. The others are slightly more subdued. In triple time you have to decide whether the beat is strong-weak-weak, as in a waltz, or strong-medium-weak. All the missing notes will be unaccented when you add them back in.



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Richard, that is so interesting and helpful! I really appreciate your posts.


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Richard, sorry for the late reply, but that is extremely helpful! Thanks very much for the detailed advice, I'll try out your suggestions. It makes a lot of sense to reduce detail to practice the 'big picture' of the piece. Thanks again!

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once you know how to play the right notes, accelerate until not only you bring it up to tempo but also beyond that. Once you can do that alright, bring it down again to tempo and work on expression

I'm a lost case, a headphone freak of nature. Without them, I fail too often, because I'm over cautious of failures as they strike loud and I'm aware all are listening. Much better playing on headphones and recording... lol. don't come this way


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Hello Justin B! I myself get extremely cautious too, when trying to record something because of the fears like "it has to be perfect", "no reason to mess up", etc. But I think it's best to try not to get nervous, so that there can be spirit, and/or mental juice in our playing. When nervous I feel that I just make mere high and low sound but not music and that can engender great dissatisfaction, which I find very unpleasant laugh.

Originally Posted by Johan B
Don't worry...everybody make mistakes, big or small.......90% of mankind can't play piano.... grin

Regards,
Johan B


Umm? May I ask one question, please? Do you mean CAN'T literally? Or are you including there also people who HIT the key but can's PLAY to make music, and/or people who are not fortunate enough to learn piano, and/or other kinds, I think you can get the idead, well, some hidden meaning, metaphors, tip of the iceberg, etc? If you mean can't literally, I'm very suprised by the number mentioned.

Regards,


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