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Originally Posted by DazedAndConfused

The use of wooden keys in digital pianos is pure marketing. You get all the disadvantages as outlined above by Kawai with no conceivable advantage ... there are great and lousy plastic and wooden actions ... the material really has nothing to do with it.


This is amazing. The message coming out of Kawai Acoustic division is this:

The Truth About ABS [ie plasitc]


It wasn't long before criticism emerged from the piano establishment....

Although these criticisms had no basis in fact, they were used aggressively to confuse piano consumers and obscure the truth about [plastic]. But as competitive opposition increased, so did the credible body of evidence supporting Kawai's use of [plastic].


At the same time, Kawai's digital division is happily promoting the joys of real wood actions.



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DazedandConfused,

REading your above reply, it is definitely saying that you are indeed dazed and confused. Comparing the key itself, to the all complicated grand action is a pure nonsense. Wood has someadvantades over the plastic, it's vibrant, more flexible and so on. Believe me, if replacing wooden actions by making the ALL PLASTIC action would be so easy and good to the grand pianos, all manufacturers would have been doing that. Unfortunately, wood has a lot of advantages, which plastic does not have.

Of course, for some parts, it would be probably better to use plastic parts, however, still, the wood will remain the core material.

Indeed, wood is a demanding material, but has it's pluses as well. Yes it works, but pianos in general should stay in stable condition, not in very much changing conditions.

It's the same as with every other top-end quality instrument. Usually they are best, but they need to have good conditions to work.

And, indeed wood in Kawai's action is more authentic. Noting wrong's here. I bet, that acoustic with all woden action would be somehow dead.

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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by DazedAndConfused

The use of wooden keys in digital pianos is pure marketing. You get all the disadvantages as outlined above by Kawai with no conceivable advantage ... there are great and lousy plastic and wooden actions ... the material really has nothing to do with it.


This is amazing. The message coming out of Kawai Acoustic division is this:

The Truth About ABS [ie plasitc]

It wasn't long before criticism emerged from the piano establishment....

Although these criticisms had no basis in fact, they were used aggressively to confuse piano consumers and obscure the truth about [plastic]. But as competitive opposition increased, so did the credible body of evidence supporting Kawai's use of [plastic].


At the same time, Kawai's digital division is happily promoting the joys of real wood actions.



It is very convenient for some manufacturers to push the 'benefits' of cheap wooden keyboard actions at a time when sales of acoustic upright pianos are collapsing. They have to do something with all that excess wood ....


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Originally Posted by kapelli
DazedandConfused,

Comparing the key itself, to the all complicated grand action is a pure nonsense.


You have never touched a wooden key in your life. You have probably touched plastic or on a very old piano, ivory, glued to a material that may or may not be wood.

Quote
Wood has some advantages over the plastic, it's vibrant, more flexible and so on.


Any vibrancy or flexibility you feel from the touch of a wooden key is via an interface with a plastic material ... ivorite etc. How come you can feel vibrancy and flexibility when touching a plastic material that you cannot feel when touching a plastic material ... you have lost me there ...

Quote
Believe me, if replacing wooden actions by making the ALL PLASTIC action would be so easy and good to the grand pianos, all manufacturers would have been doing that. Unfortunately, wood has a lot of advantages, which plastic does not have.


I am not talking about all manufacturers. I am talking about Kawai and their clever / unscrupulous (you decide) marketing that slates wood as a material in one division whilst promoting it as the premium choice in another division.

There is an element of appreciation of craftsmanship and a commitment to the necessary maintenance when buying a high end digital piano. It is very much like people spending £100,000 on a watch expect it to be fully mechanical, even if an electronic watch would be more reliable and accurate.

But we are talking about consumer digital musical instruments. Why on earth anyone would buy a keyboard action that needs regular maintenance and regulation, is subject to changes due to climate and humidity etc in a digital instrument, purely because it is made of wood, is mystifying. For me, the presence of wood is a major negative and the action would have to be absolutely superb to silence my deep reservations.

An extract from an article linked to the Kawai Site:

Quote
Although there are many wood actions of very high quality and should not be avoided, there is in my opinion absolutely no advantage or rational justification that can be credibly argued any longer to imply that wood actions provide any real advantages.


http://www.georgekolasis.com/piano-action-parts.html

My advice to the OP is to buy a digital piano that feels good to play and has an action that feels well connected to the sound engine, whether it is made of wood or not is a total irrelevance.

Last edited by DazedAndConfused; 07/27/15 02:40 PM.
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Wood or wood not? The heat is on!

Stay tuned for further developments!

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the best one for my fingers and pockets is the one I own ;-)

plus, termites don't dig plastic

Last edited by Doritos Flavoured; 07/27/15 03:16 PM.

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I always knew there was a reason the sides of the keys on my digital are painted woody-brown - to convince ignorant punters like myself that the keys were actually made of wood, with a (fake) ivory surface. What can be more natural - wood + elephant tusk? wink (Never mind the deforestation and the dead animal - you want natural, you got it........)

The placebo effect of the all-natural keys convinced me I could play like a virtuoso, just like my hero Rachmaninov, who obviously couldn't be doing with plastic on his pianos. Then, I put on my glasses and scrutinized the keys carefully - and discovered that the whole thing was one big piece of plastic, painted with fake wood on the sides, and with a layer of fake ivory coating on the tops...... cry


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Synthetic keys!!!! cry
The pain, unbearable. smile

Goes well with the synthetic sound of a DP, but on an acoustic.
The shock. The horror. wink

no whining, I love digital pianos. have owned and played many

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I've seen (seemingly) authoritative work claiming benefits of wood.

But I think there exists a much bigger difference between acoustic pianos and digitals. It's the action.

The latter is usually wooden, though many uprights have been using plastic wippen parts for decades. Kawai has been using carbon fiber for certain parts (including hammer shanks) in their premium pianos. And certain replacement parts makers are offering non-wooden parts, too.

Even so, I still think the difference is more than just wood vs. plastic. It's the action.

This grand action or this upright action has little in common with this digital action.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've seen (seemingly) authoritative work claiming benefits of wood.

But I think there exists a much bigger difference between acoustic pianos and digitals. It's the action.

The latter is usually wooden,


I think you mean the former.

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Originally Posted by Scott Hamlin
I think you mean the former.


Not if Kawai have anything to do with it.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've seen (seemingly) authoritative work claiming benefits of wood.

But I think there exists a much bigger difference between acoustic pianos and digitals. It's the action.

The latter is usually wooden, though many uprights have been using plastic wippen parts for decades. Kawai has been using carbon fiber for certain parts (including hammer shanks) in their premium pianos. And certain replacement parts makers are offering non-wooden parts, too.

Even so, I still think the difference is more than just wood vs. plastic. It's the action.

This grand action or this upright action has little in common with this digital action.


Exactly. Right on point.

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DazedAndConfused, this topic comes up every so often. The following explanation should clarify things:

Quote
Why does Kawai use wood in digital piano actions, but plastic in acoustic piano actions?

Kawai use wooden keys in our higher specification digital pianos because we (backed by hundreds of years of history) believe it is the best material for the job.

Kawai use ABS composite materials for some parts of our acoustic piano keyboard actions because we know that these materials are lighter, stronger, and more dimensionally stable to changes in temperature and humidity than their wooden counterparts. However, we of course continue to use wooden keys for our acoustic pianos.

Generally speaking, we select materials that we believe will make our pianos – be they acoustic or digital – play and sound better.


I have added the bold emphasis to help distinguish between the words 'keys' and 'parts'.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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