Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland

So is the decay longer than previous HP/LX models? I really think decay time is the biggest problem for DPs. I hate it when notes die out before they should. Why did Roland leave out the adjustability of the decay? It's pretty much the first thing I want to change when I play with the sound. So frustrating! I would so buy one if it had this feature. Are you listening, Roland???

Will all of the future Roland pianos be completely modeled in respect to acoustic piano sounds? What's the cheapest fully modeled Roland piano right now?

Ando Given the lack of the decay time parameter, I really scrutinized the decays, and found them to be long and natural.

Perhaps a future firmware update could happen if enough users decide it's something they need, and ask for it? I don't know.

Until then, I suggest that when they ship, you find a store with these models in, and you play them and decide for yourself.

CyberGene i don't know the future. So theres no way I could speak to that.

The HP603 currently stands as the most inexpensive home piano that has this new piano sound engine. I don't know pricing in your region.

Jay

Thanks. Is it expected that the price of the new pianos will be similar to that of the models they replace when they were introduced? I mean, is the fully modeled sound engine and accompanying electronics bringing a premium price tag over the replacement models?

What about the lower models LX-7 and HP605, compared to the LX-17 ? It seems to me that you talked only about this one in previous comments. I would like to know how they stand in terms of speakers. Prices are starting to appear, for example woodbrass France sells the HP605 2500 euros in black and 3000 euros in polished ebony, which is exactly the prices at which they sold the HP508. LX7 is sold 3500 euros in black and 4100 euros in polished ebony, that is quite higher for a replacement.

Even a biased review is a review. What is your point exactly? Jay's enthusiastic review of the LX-17 makes me want to demo it ASAP. That is all I said and it is true.



No it doesn't.



This is a bizarre position. What on earth can you learn from listening to a MIDI file that wasn't created on the same instrument? Absolutely nothing. A good musician is not just playing a sequence of notes in the right order but listening to the sound coming out of the piano and responding to the feedback.



It cannot replace that experience at all!



How many assumptions in one go!

In any case, first of all, I will not be buying a DP to listen to it. I will be buying one to play and so the test of quality will be playability, musicality and versatility for a wide range of, in my case, classical music.

I really don't care too much what is under the hood or how editable the presets are. Decent EQ to adjust the sound to the acoustics of the room will be enough. If I were a music producer or sound engineer then the V-Piano / Grand would possibly be the better option to fine tune the sound for maximum effect but my need is to play music written for piano on a responsive instrument and have an experience that is so compelling and immersive that I completely forget that I am playing an instrument that is electronic and not acoustic.

Some are better than others but I have yet to achieve that feeling with any sampled instrument, including my own very worthy FP7-F. The closest I have come to that experience is with the V-Piano which is why I am so excited that this refined modelling technology will shortly be available in a more accessible form and at a more accessible price.



Why would anyone be annoyed about the release of a new musical instrument? Do you imagine that Yamaha Grand Piano owners were annoyed by the release of the CFX? A musical instrument doesn't cease to be a musical instrument because a new model has appeared and in any case it would be pretty ignorant to expect a company to cease all innovation once you have bought one of their products.

I really do not understand this naysaying before you have even had a chance to demo the instrument for yourself. Really what is your problem?


@CyberGene, in the UK, the cheapest modelled Roland is the HP603 which retailers have priced at approximately £1500.

The LX-7, HP605 and HP603 all sounded and felt fantastic fantastic. They share the same action and core sound engine as the LX-17....

The differences in the speaker systems were more than slight, but the overall package was very very pleasing on all three of those models.

I cannot speak to pricing strategies employed by any other country than my own.

Edit: I'm out on dealer calls all day now. I'll check in later.

Jay

Sorry, just another question It is a more general one and I guess you might not have an exact answer but at least you may have heard something or have a rough idea. On a traditional sampled piano, such as my current Kawai, the manufacturer has started with real samples from a real piano. What they have is a bunch of samples per key which they map to certain velocities. In that process often there's something that gets lost. It is the way the original piano timbre changed, related to the exact original velocity, which on its turn depends on the particular weight, inertia, etc. of the original keyboard. In other words, the original link between timbre change curve (so to speak), sound amplitude curve and keyboard velocity is often lost. There is timbre and dynamic variation, you can change the touch, but not independently.

My question here is if it is possible to change this on the new pianos? And who prepares the default touch curves, timbre variation ranges, sound amplitude ranges and the exact mapping between the three? Do you use some measurements from real pianos, do real pianists provide feedback?

Jay, where I am coming from is that I think, as others here, a fully modeled sound is a big deal :-)

And it does not seem to be the same thing as in the V-Piano, right? So I think the industry, the community, the customers that care would like to hear some details.

How, if, is this different to V-Piano? Or is this "just" moore's law shrinking the chips and the price from V-Piano level?

Can customers expect "System Program Upgrades" like with the V-Piano?

Why has the V-Piano a polyphony limit and the new system does not?

Of course, the proof is in the playing. I'll be sure to do that when they show up here.

Hi Jay,
Thanks for the info. Do these new models also have modelled EP's? A modelled Rhodes would be cool...
Thanks

Whoa there!

And the first fully modelled hardware piano is?

As a Roland man I expect you to know the answer Jay.

Why is the hp605 around £700 cheaper than the lx-7? They both share the exact same specifications.

Also I would be very cautious to these new marketing words on modelling, I don't trust it's going to sound better in any way as opposed to a good sampled piano, it's more about the player and what they can get out of the instrument, now all we will hear from roland is how sampled instruments are so outdated and inferior to modelled ones, it's just a cheap trick to get your attention.

This roland sales chap is only going to say how amazing they are lol, obviously.

It's in your signature! Good old structured adaptive synthesis!

Jay

I don't think so. The sounds are recognizable from the previous series...still good....but not modelled.

Jay

If I had concerns, I would share them.

You may not trust now, but I am very confident that when you sit down to one for the first time, you'll enjoy the experience...

I cannot speak to the price difference in your country on the two models....cabinets are not cheap to design and build though.

It's not Roland's style to criticize our competitors instruments....rather we would rather tell what makes ours not only unique, but outstanding....

Well I'm planning on getting an rd800 by Roland, perhaps I should wait for the similar priced hp605 as it's clearly going to be so much better with the new modelling technology.

Cheers

More like a young child's play-doh creation than an actual model surely? Very nice indeed but hardly a representative model of reality.

I agree. But I don't know that the PW forums necessarily represent the majority of digital piano buyers. I'm here to help spread the word and help answer questions.



As I've said, I don't know that those details will be forthcoming. I have questions of my own. I may not get all the answers I want. Even as an employee. The difference is, I understand that some things won't be released as public information.



Not sure, as things come up, quite possibly...



Not sure the deep dark details, but it sure speaks to the power of the new sound generation chip that I mentioned above...

Jay

Yes, the above is absolutely correct as Roland has missed a very important feature in the new models by not having a "Decay Time" editable parameter available.

One of the only reasons I have kept my V-Piano is on account of being able to lengthen the "Decay Time" parameter otherwise all other DP's are just a stick in the mud (i.e., trash) without it.

I was hoping this feature would have trickled down into the LX-17 or some other model but it was not to be. Roland has missed the boat by not incorporating the most important features into their new pianos.

As it is the V-Piano is the ONLY digital piano at this time that has sufficient decay and I am not so happy with the mediocre sounds, either.

"Bosendorfer" presets -- Vintage II -- V-Piano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ewq6NgYpxA

Scott Tibbs is an excellent pianist but he sure doesn't have it right that the "Vintage II" presets sound anything like a "Bosendorfer" Imperial concert grand.

What a joke -- the modeling is very poor in this regard as I can testify to this issue having owned a V-Piano for several years now and I simply will not make use of the Vintage II presets as they sound downright horrible.

I also bought and own a Clavinova CLP-585 which has a far better Bosendorfer sample than what is in the V-Piano:

https://app.box.com/s/vwmwyfgdf17ap4aeih9fi289hv5hgxod

https://app.box.com/s/85w0sme9pddio6r2l4d5op9gdkzzd7xv

There are other PW members that have given away their V-Piano(s) due to the poor quality of the modeling. I haven't done so as of yet but things aren't looking very good in that regard.

Roland should get their act together and develop a new modeled V-Piano with reasonable sounding presets. This modeling still has a long way to go to sound right.