Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Which is better Petrof or Kawai?

Hi,

My son (7 years old) is now using an old spinet for more than 1 year. He is still a beginner, but he loves to play the piano and is practicing every day. He seems to be a fast learner.

I am now thinking to update the piano for him. I want him to use it long, but my budget is limited: not more than $10,000.

What I found are

1. Petrof p159 5'3 baby grand piano year 1997 $9000
2. kawai kG2D grand piano with player year 1986 $7500
3. kawai upright k500 brand new approx $7000.

I am also looking for used kawai RX1 but it is difficult to find within my budget.

Since I do not know about pianos, I need your advice about which piano I should buy, or whether the prices are too high or not. If you recommend other pianos, please give me advice!

Thanks!

I have had a Petrof IV and I liked it better than a Kawai.

But this is also personal taste.

You have to try them, how it sounds, how it feels. You usually will know which one is better after 10 seconds playing.. You can also consider making recordings but make sure you have the same recording device and placed in the same way (eg, a meter from the piano on the ground).

And have a tech to inspect the technical state if you go for 2nd hand. Hidden problems may cost you big $

Thank you for your advice!

How old was your Petrof? I am also worried about the maintenance.
The owner of the piano store is also a tech. But do I still need to find a tech?
Sorry for a stupid question. This is my first time to buy a piano.

The piano store is a bit far away from my home (90 min driving). I think I need to find a tech close to the store, if needed.

Unless you are comparing new pianos of the same type and size, it would be difficult to make a just comparison between Kawai and Petrof.

With used pianos, you can only assess each piano individually as age and condition are the critical determiners in the performance and value of the instrument.

Personally, I would lean towards a newer instrument and the Petrof baby grand may be the most promising of the pianos you have listed.

It is most important to have a used piano appraised by an independent technician before buying it.

Good luck with your choice!

Robert.

With a used piano, you need to hire a piano technician to look at it and make sure the piano is in good condition.

If all those pianos were new, I would take the Petrof to practice on (mainly because of the Renner action). But I don't know what Petrof pianos were like in 1997 (or even if it came with a Renner action).

Petrof redesigned all their pianos since 2000,do this is an old serie, with Detoa action. The touch is not the best. It could do it for a beginner, but resale may be easy later.

That is mostly the damper mechanism that is so so, with levers going toward the keys, the back of the keyboard and frame is reduced and the action is less stable.

It is not possible to compare just that way.
Wanting to buy a second hand (or a new piano) means you need to listen yourself to different pianos.
I said it yet but you can find a very good Feurich 122,new for that price (I suppose).

For a grand, second hand (or third) this is more difficult to buy.
I would stick with a new piano if you are not pianist and in a hurry.

The persons I helped to find an a second hand piano did wait about six months generally, looking at Craig lists. Our exchanges made some education about brands models, condition. Then the day the rare second hand piano appeared, they did buy it more or less the same day, sometimes after a check by me or a local tech.

Good luck for your project.

If I remember correctly, the late-90s Petrofs were sometimes Detoa actions, and sometimes Renner parts, but not assembled by Renner. I'm not sure if this is a Petrof V (nice, but with the typical shortcomings of a smaller grand) or some sort of earlier model I haven't played before.

Having said all this, a good example of a used KG-2 can sound pleasant, as long as one doesn't find the action too laborious, and the K500 is a seriously nice vertical piano that most pianists would never outgrow.

Thanks for investing in a better instrument for your child's music education! It's great that he's practicing daily and motivated.

No the whole model is totally different from the Petrof V.

They may have used Renner hammers on some models, the Petrof Renner action was later, in my memory. While at the same time Petrof did work for Renner, assembling actions, I do not remind they used those same actions before the new models. Too much differences for instance to keep the keyboard and install Renner stacks.

But the workers where competent, just the Detoa feel spongy.

From top of my head my Petrof IV was also from the late 90's.

BTW I would go for a slightly bigger grand: IMHO grand pianos generally start to sound good from around 6'. That PIV was 5'7" and it had quite above the average sound for that size. This may be personal but most people seem to have a size of 6' to 7' as the place where it starts to sound good.

Yes sorry I am may be confusing with Bechstein, it is late tonight...

Sure since the fall of the wall in East Germany, the Renner parts have been more used.

And the model is may be yet the same as today. But there are different factories for Petrof and I have seen vertical pianos from the end of 90 that where having the old design.

In that case, it seems to me the K500 is the best option.

With Feurich the difficulty is even finding one....

please re check the model, it seem to be a model they did for exportation, they are not sold in France where we see the model IV V etc, so I dont know them

They have an action without name, but a good soundboard and a plate in grey iron.

That said, the recent petrofs are good pianos but the touch is somewhat heavy , anyway on a good number of them, so it may be tested by the pianist, it can be a little difficult for a beginner . Kawai also are not "light touch" often.

WHat say the piano teatcher ?

It would be great to have a rand piano indeed.

Too bad for the Feurich, I find them impressive and not expensive.

Thank you, all.

The dealer told me that the model is Petrof P159 1997 Bora. I am now asking the dealer about the actions if they know. As far as the action is ok, I will get appraisal from a tec. I will post what is going on later.

I am really tired of our old spinet..but still need to be patient.

How difficult and confusing it is to buy a piano!!

I'm pretty sure, at least in the US (you don't list where you're located), the Bora, Breeze, and Storm models were not introduced until the late 2000s. Prior to that were the Roman Numeral series grands, V, IV, III, etc.

My 1999-2000 version of the Piano Buyer only lists Petrof grands with Roman Numerals, not Bora, Breeze etc. And it says the grands are made with Renner action parts, assembled on a Petrof action frame at the Petrof factory.

Of course, the piano mentioned by the OP is a 1997 model so the action might have changed between 1997 and 1999.

The dealer told me that the Detoa action is used. I am so disappointed.

Anyway, thank you all!
I do not have to have long driving to the dealer and pay for a piano tec for the Petrof.

I am also hesitating to go for Kawai 1986 grand. It seems good condition (one owner, well-maintained)but it is too old.

I will look around for a while.

I agree that the K500 is the best option. Here's another thread on that particular model. Folks seemed very impressed by it.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2245399/2.html

$7K for a NEW K-500 is more than reasonable !!! Plus you get a new piano warranty.

I haven't played a K-500, but I have been impressed with all the Kawai K series pianos I've played. Being new, it would come with a full 10 (or is it 12?) year new piano warranty (not sure what country you are in). I played a YAMAHA equivalent to that piano for 30 years and it did everything I asked of it, and my children, students and now my grandchildren. I'd suspect Kawai is likely to hold its value better, too.

The KAWAI I learned on when I was in my teens is still going strong at my brother's house almost 50 yrs later.

Wow, K-500 seems to be a good piano. With the budget of $10,000, it seems that good upright piano such as K-500 is much better than used grand pianos.

The KAWAI dealers provides 100% trade in 10 years, I think. If my son continue piano and needed to upgrade again, we could do too. (Hope the store is not closed in the future!)

Thanks, All!

I agree about the K500 (or K300 to save something now) about durability... It's enough piano with a good sound and capabilities, much more than these super-shorty grands.

Buy back plans sound good in theory but they are not all that they seem to be. See the linked thread from the FAQs forum.

100% buy back from the FAQ

Kurt

But sometimes they can be very good.

Buy-back is possible, but generally they have conditions - definitely something which that dealer sells, and probably only another KAWAI. If, for example, in 9½ yrs you decide to buy a Mason&Hamlin, YAMAHA or a rebuilt Steinway, the buy-back wouldn't be of any use.

Enjoy your new piano, whatever you get.

Have you considered learning yourself? It's never too late.

Remember there was someone here recently trying to trade-in her Yamaha upright for the grand, but the dealer would only apply the credit against the MSRP of the grand. Remember, Yamaha & Kawai's MSRP's are almost 2x the street price. I remember for $3K more she could just buy the grand at street price and keep the upright that she paid something like $10-15K for.

Another recent thread that relates to this one was the guy who wanted to buy a grand for his daughter but she was something like 2-3 years from moving out to college.

That's why it's important to understand the conditions of any possible trade-in ahead of time and get them in writing as part of the first sale.

Sometimes politicians act in their constituent's best interest.

The OP can read the FAQ entry and draw their own conclusions.

Kurt

Just because you disagree with what I said is no excuse for sarcasm. What I said is factual and from personal experience. The issue is not nearly as black and white as you seem to think.

The only important thing is that I wanted the OP to be informed so they could make intelligent choices.

Kurt

Thanks!
My younger son starts piano and can't afford my private lessons, but I will take a piano class in nearby college in Fall. I am so excited!

I was thinking similar situation. After 7~8 years, even if we upgrade the piano, he will use it only a couple of years. I do not know how long he is happy to use K500.

Thank you for your information about trade-in. When I purchase the piano, I will ask the dealer about the conditions of the trade-in etc.

I wouldn't be concerned about that at this stage - in the vast majority of cases, a child/teenager would be well served by a K500, almost certainly till they leave home.

It is a much more capable piano than your current spinet. It is similar to what is in most practice rooms in Conservatories. A K500 is better than anything I studied on till I was almost 30 yrs old, then bought something more-or-less (YAMAHA) equivalent to the K500 which kept me happy till I was almost 60 yrs old.

How can the MSRP be "almost" twice the street p^rice ? I know dealers margin, they do not allow that and by far.

Or , is the AMerican buyer so much more interested in obtaining the largest rebate that the manufacturers raised their MSRP immensely ?

(I confess, I did that once selling a small upright", I noticed by phone that the buyer where more buying the price than the piano, so they where happy with their large rebate).

I usually do not sell new pianos, so I don"t have to use those sort of strategy hopefully.