Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
116 registered (Alexander Borro, Amosdoll, Anne'sson, ando, AmateurBob, 32 invisible), 1433 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#2454290 - Yesterday at 09:23 AM Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65?
lucky luke Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 3
Hi all,
i own a CA65 and am considering buying the Kawai VPC1 so that we can play pieces for 2 pianos / 4 hands.

establishing the connection between VPC1 and CA65 should be easy according to the user manual: it is a matter of pluging in the MIDI cable.

my questions are:

- how does CA65 behave as sound generator?

- Will my custom sound settings on CA65 (virutal technician) also apply for the MIDI signals coming from VPC1, or are they only valid for "native" CA65 MIDI signals coming from the CA65 keyboard?

- Will the volume level be the same if strike the keys with the same force on VPC1 and CA65?

- Also: if I use a virtual piano on a PC, then CA65 will merge the MIDI signals of VPC1 with its own MIDI signals and stream the consolidated signals to the PC. will there be latencies (i.e. the MIDI signal of CA65 is faster than the MIDI signal of VPC1 so that the sound is not synchronized)?

I know these are a lot of question, because I have never done this before. any input is welcome.
thanks in advance!

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Kawai Superb Stage Piano and Controller

Click Here


#2454291 - Yesterday at 09:35 AM Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lucky luke]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 239
Loc: France
I have not all responses, but there is 1 ms required by the USB link (the PC pull data every ms... The VPC1 can't push DATA on a USB link). Afterward, this depends of your PC and its soundcard. There could be more than 5ms at this step.

See http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36165 for some mesured latencies. (Divide the measures by 2, since half is taken to transmit sound, an an other half to receive... But it is not possible to measure each half separately)
_________________________
Yamaha CLP150, Ivory II (American Concert D, Italian, 3 grand pianos, 4 uprights), Truekeys, Pianoteq

Top
#2454368 - Yesterday at 05:48 PM Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lucky luke]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 812
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By lucky luke
- how does CA65 behave as sound generator?
The sounds will be exactly the same as if you played it on the CA65 keyboard.

Quote:
- Will my custom sound settings on CA65 (virutal technician) also apply for the MIDI signals coming from VPC1, or are they only valid for "native" CA65 MIDI signals coming from the CA65 keyboard?
In general yes they will apply. Though, there are some settings like Touch Curve that apply to the keyboard response rather than the sound triggered, which won't apply. I.e. if you have touch set to "Heavy", your CA65 keyboard will produce lower MIDI note-on velocities. It will not affect any note-on velocities coming in from an external source like your VPC1.

One thing you will have to look out for is that there is a bug in the software, that causes the damper noise to sound at full volume when you play the pedal on your external source, rather than in proportion to the speed with which the pedal was depressed. (I encounter this when playing back MIDI from an external sequencer.) So you will have to turn the Damper Noise down to zero in the Virtual Technician.

Quote:
- Will the volume level be the same if strike the keys with the same force on VPC1 and CA65?

Not necessarily - depends on the curve you have set up on the VPC1, and the Touch Curve setting for the CA65.

Quote:
- Also: if I use a virtual piano on a PC, then CA65 will merge the MIDI signals of VPC1 with its own MIDI signals and stream the consolidated signals to the PC. will there be latencies (i.e. the MIDI signal of CA65 is faster than the MIDI signal of VPC1 so that the sound is not synchronized)?
This is not what MIDI OUT does: messages coming from MIDI IN will not be forwarded. If you want to use a software piano, connect both keyboards directly to the computer. You can use any sequencer or freeware like VSThost to forward the MIDI from the VPC1 to the CA65, if you want to use its sounds. The latency should not be significant.

If I were trying to play 4 hands I'd probably prefer to use a different set of sounds for the second piano, or at least place it differently in the stereo field. So I'd use a software piano and forward the audio to the CA65 via its Line In ports, if that's what you want to use for speakers.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

Top
#2454392 - Yesterday at 08:03 PM Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lolatu]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10774
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello lucky luke,

I believe lolatu's thorough reply covers the queries that you raise, however there are a couple of points I would like to add.

Originally Posted By lucky luke
i own a CA65 and am considering buying the Kawai VPC1 so that we can play pieces for 2 pianos / 4 hands.


This should work for the most part, however please bear in mind that this is not a true 2-piano setup, but more of a 1.5-piano setup. While the CA65 and VPC1 keyboards and pedals can be operated independently, the messages they send are sharing a single piano sound source - i.e. the same piano strings and pedals. This may cause problems when one pianist is pedalling while the other pianist wishes to play without the pedal.

Originally Posted By lolatu
Originally Posted By lucky luke
Also: if I use a virtual piano on a PC, then CA65 will merge the MIDI signals of VPC1 with its own MIDI signals and stream the consolidated signals to the PC. will there be latencies (i.e. the MIDI signal of CA65 is faster than the MIDI signal of VPC1 so that the sound is not synchronized)?
This is not what MIDI OUT does: messages coming from MIDI IN will not be forwarded.


This is true for the CA65, however the VPC1 can 'merge' MIDI events in the way luke describes, if desired. Essentially, the CA65's MIDI OUT is connected to the VPC1's MIDI IN, then the VPC1's MIDI OUT (or USB-MIDI OUT) is connected to a tone generator or PC/Mac. In this case, the CA65 would produce its own sound (assuming Local Control = On), while also triggering the same notes on whatever tone generator the VPC1 is connected to.

Originally Posted By lolatu
If I were trying to play 4 hands I'd probably prefer to use a different set of sounds for the second piano, or at least place it differently in the stereo field. So I'd use a software piano and forward the audio to the CA65 via its Line In ports, if that's what you want to use for speakers.


Yes, that would be my recommendation also. If you wish to achieve a true 2-piano setup, the VPC1 ideally needs to play a second, independent piano source.

Best of luck Luke!

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2454487 - Today at 04:17 AM Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lucky luke]
maurus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 1035
What a setup such as the one the OP has in mind would achieve is akin to playing a piano with four hands, i.e. two people in front of the same keyboard. In this situation you only have one set of strings, one damper pedal, etc.

One could ask though: Why not then play the CA65 with four hands - just as one would do with an acoustic piano?

For a real two piano setup there should be two independent sound sources, as lolatu and James point out. (Actually, in a typical acoustic piano setup these would probably be two pianos of the same model, in order to achieve a symmetrical tonal balance.)

Top
#2454545 - 4 minutes 14 seconds ago Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lucky luke]
lucky luke Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 3
hi all, thanks a lot for all your inputs! smile I really appreciate your help!!

we will have the situation where one player uses the sustain pedal and plays legato while the second player plays staccato without pedalling.
so yes, two independent sound sources is the cleanest and also easiest setup.

i think i am going to order the VPC1 and try out the different setups for 2 piano / 4 hands pieces.

@maurus: if i am playing on CA65, i don't want to share it with anyone else ;-)

Top
#2454547 - 2 minutes 42 seconds ago Re: Connecting Kawai VPC1 to Kawai CA65? [Re: lucky luke]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4277
Loc: North Carolina
Lucky Luke: If you're willing to bear the expense of two pianos, is it really necessary to produce the sound solely on the CA65?

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Back to School Music SALE!
Save 10% in our online store
.
Just enter SAVE10 in the coupon box during checkout. *
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
* Sale does not apply to advertising, how old requests, or any non-tangible items. Can not be combined with any other promotions. Ends August 31, 2015
(ad) Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
PianoDisc
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Abba's Dancing Queen piano up for auction
by Thrill Science
Today at 09:44 AM
Who made my piano?
by sknight751
Today at 09:23 AM
What is the saddest piano song that you have ever heard?
by Aly Baracat
Today at 08:30 AM
Birdcage tuning
by foxpianotuning
Today at 07:09 AM
Presentation thread
by Olek
Today at 06:56 AM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,543 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,474 Topics
2,439,829 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission