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I have been learning piano for 4 years now and have (only recently) began to become unhappy with the regulation of my current digital keyboards. My son and I have three, a Yamaha P-90, Korg SP-250, and a Casio AP-500. We also have an acoustic grand piano, a KG-5C.

It's time for an upgrade and after agonizing over the Yamaha P-255 for awhile, the recent release of the Kawai ES8 has me leaning in that direction.

Stealing from various threads and marketing literature, I made the following comparison of the keyboards I am looking at right now: MP7, MP11, VPC1, ES7, ES8

Prices are approximate only.

Thumbnail Sketches of the MP7, MP11, VPC1, ES7 and ES8:

MP7... The Performer's Stage Piano

With stunning Acoustic Pianos, Vintage Electric Pianos, Classic Tonewheel Organ, Masterful MIDI Controller and Impeccable Feel, the Kawai MP7 is the stage piano for the professional musician that does not accept compromise.

• 40 pianos, Concert Grand, Studio Grand, Pop Piano, Upright Piano, the concert grand sound is reportedly the same as the sample on the MP 11
• 256 Voices including 10 pianos with 4 variants of each
• Harmonic Imaging XL
• RH2 Action with Let-off, Ivory Touch and Triple Sensor Detection
• 256 Note polyphony
• Virtual Technician capability – voicing, resonance, damper, delay, noises
• Reverb: Room, Lounge, Small Hall, Concert Hall, Live Hall, Cathedral
• 100 Drum Patterns
• 46 lbs
• Release: Jan 2015
• $1799

MP11... Professional Stage Piano - No Compromises

For professional musicians who do not accept compromises, the MP11 offers the most authentic action, the most realistic sound, and the most control. The MP11 unquestionably delivers the finest piano experience in a professional stage piano.

• 12 different pianos, classic concert grand, pop piano, jazz piano, upright, mono
• 40 Voices including 12 pianos
• Harmonic Imaging XL
• GF (Grand Feel) wooden-key action with Let-off, Triple Sensors and Ivory-touch surfaces
• 256 Note polyphony
• Virtual Technician – customize virtually every element
• Triple Pedal Assembly included – Damper, Sostenuto and Soft
• Reverb: Room, Lounge, Small Hall, Concert Hall, Live Hall, Cathedral
• 100 Drum Patterns
• 71.5 lbs
• $2799

VPC1 – Virtual piano controller

• No sound generator, no voices, no accompaniment
• RM3II Wooden-kay, graded-hammer action w/counterbalancing with let-off, ivory touch and triple sensor detection
• Plug and play
• Space for laptop or midi device
• Customized touch curves
• 3 pedals
• $1500ish

ES7 – Portable DP, a simple digital piano with great sound and touch

• 32 voices (PIANO1, PIANO2, E.PIANO, ORGAN, HARPSI/MALLETS, STRINGS/CHOIR, BASS)
• Responsive Hammer II (RHII) action with Let-Off, Triple sensors, Ivory Touch key surfaces
• Progressive Harmonic Imaging™ (PHI)
• 256 Note polyphony
• Voicing: Normal, Mellow 1, Mellow 2 , Dynamic, Bright 1, Bright 2
• Styles: 100 rhythms (x 2 variations), 4-part accompaniment, 100 preset chord sequences
• Type: Room, Lounge, Small Hall, Concert Hall, Live Hall, Cathedral
• Speakers, 15Watts x 2.
• Released: Aug 2013
• 49 lbs
• $1799

ES8 – Portable DP, a simple digital piano with great sound and touch

• 34 voices (10 pianos, 10 E-pianos)
• In addition to the EX concert grand sounds, the ES8 also features the new SK-EX and SK-5 sounds previously only available on the larger Concert Artist models.
• 34 voices (PIANO1, PIANO2, E.PIANO, ORGAN, HARPSI/MALLETS, STRINGS/CHOIR, BASS)
• Responsive Hammer III (RHIII) action with Let-Off, Ivory Touch keys, Triple Sensor, and Counterweights
• Harmonic Imaging™ XL (HI-XL), Harmonic Imaging XL on the ES8 is identical to that of the MP7 (and MP11, CA97/CA67/ CA17).
• 256 Note polyphony
• Voicing: Normal, Mellow 1, Mellow 2 , Dynamic, Bright 1, Bright 2, User 1~4
• Virtual Technician function - Touch Curve: Light+, Light, Normal, Heavy, Heavy+, Off (Constant), User 1, User 2
• Styles: 100 rhythms (x 2 variations), 4-part accompaniment, 100 preset chord sequences
• Type: Room, Lounge, Small Hall, Concert Hall, Live Hall, Cathedral
• 10 song, 2 track recorder – approximately 90,000 note memory capacity
• Playback: MP3, WAV, SMF
• Record: MP3, WAV
• Speakers: (8 x 12 cm) x 2
• Output Power: 15 Watts x 2
• Released: Aug 2015
• 49.6 lbs
• $1999

***

Of primary importance to me is the feel of the keys and the sound. I have been unable to express dynamic shading easily with the starter keyboards.

I am not a professional, just an in-home tinkler of the keys. I love the idea of going all the way to the Grand Feel action but I think I would be very happy with the RH3. Price and weight come into play there, I think.

If I'm not mistaken, the samples included with the ES8 (and the RH3 action!) come from the CA25/35 products but utilize HI-XL rendering. The samples include two Shigeru Kawai models and the Kawai EX concert grand! To me, this is a big upgrade from the ES-7 but it all comes down to the sound emitted.

My biggest concern is that I will hate the onboard sampled sounds, even with high quality headphones or the Rokit 8 studio monitors that I have. I have yet to hear a digital piano with onboard sounds that I really like, but I remain hopeful. I recognize that I haven't heard ANY high end digitals in person. At home, I play Ivory II and am sometimes quite satisfied.

I probably need to hear the ES8. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on the subject, I'm all fingers and ears!

You said:

"I .... began to become unhappy with the regulation of my current digital keyboards.", and

" My biggest concern is that I will hate the onboard sampled sounds, even with high quality headphones. I have yet to hear a digital piano with onboard sounds that I really like, but I remain hopeful. I play Ivory II and am sometimes quite satisfied."

It seems that you are looking for a higher-quality action/feel, but don't usually hold on-board sounds in high regard. If that's an accurate assessment, I think that the VPC1 might be the way to go for you. -- Especially since already use a MIDI keyboard to play Ivory II.

I felt the same way about my DGX640. I rarely used the onboard sounds. I eventually used it mainly as a MIDI controller with Pianoteq, but eventually wanted a better action. So, I sold it and went with the VPC1 and have been very happy.

That, and the VPC1 is the lowest price option listed above, as well.

That said, you may find it difficult finding a store with a VPC1 on display to try. That was the case with me, so it took me quite a while to decide to "chance" it and order it online. If you order online from a reliable vendor with a good return policy, you might also want to go that route. It worked out for me.

Good Luck with your decision.

I guess I'm holding out the hope that if I can find a digital keyboard with Great Sounds, then that would be preferable to using the software pianos which have their own idiosyncracies! With software pianos, I can (just) feel the latency and I also do get cracks and pops creeping in periodically.

VPC1 is a strong candidate, and I guess if I listened to an ES8 in person and tested it out, and were unhappy with the emitted sound, I would go the VPC1 route.

With all the feedback that has been given on the Grand Feel action, I don't feel like I need to check that out in person. I'm pretty confident that I will like it a lot.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I'll almost certainly have to order the keyboard on-line.

The ES8 is the obvious pick here.
Looking at the specs, what's not to like?
In general most on board sounds on any DP are at least serviceable.
But even folks that buy the motherships... MP11... even the Avant Grand still choose to run software pianos anyway.

Play the internal sounds till they bore you, then take a USB cable and check out what software has to offer. Either way, the ES8 is a nice pick.

As it was said above, your focus in on keys/action. Of course you would like a system with great keys and great sounds more.

So I think what you absolutely have to do is to weight the VPC action against the ES8 action & sounds package. Only you can do that and you can only do it in real life.

So if you can not test them both somewhere, I would recommend that you order both from the same shop and return the one you like less.

I guess it will be a hard choice. Nicer action vs needing to boot a second device :-)

I watch these discussions with great interest. Eventually, noise will be a factor in our living environment. I will certainly buy a digital piano then. Ease of use will be one of the main factors when I buy. And the ES8 certainly has that. Virtual piano sounds will likely never be an issue for me as I am so technologically challenged I doubt I ever figure them out.

Anyway I watch and learn.

After reading up on all of these models and compiling the comparison info, I figured that someone else will want to see the same comparison. Hence I posted the info for everyone.

Interesting comments from all.

ElmerFudd: "What's not to like?" Yes, I am excited about the specs of the ES8.

Hendrik42: "your focus in on keys/action" Yes, and I think RH3 will satisfy me for 3-5 years, by which time digital pianos will be in the next generation.

Dynamobt: "Ease of use." This is also a consideration for me, as is portability and price.

***

Hmmm, I guess I could prioritize my desires:

1) Great keyboard action (uniform, solid, grand piano like)
2) Ability to play quickly (key speed) and expressively (dynamics)
2) Great sound
3) Lower price
4) Ease of use
5) Portability
6) USB/MIDI/computer connectivity
7) Odds and ends, like other sounds and/or accompaniment patterns. These are pretty low priority for me.

Might i advise. . .Dont accept that any keyboard is The One without trying first, along with a variety of others, utilising some suitable test song or passage. You might be surprised by the outcome. . . having said that, the ES7 and particularly ES8 look like winners in my book. I am considering these for future, the action is good.

Trouble is, Im very happy with my own, and could seriously regret selling it. . . Decisions, decisions!

Have fun!

I thought there was a Kawai dealer in Phoenix. Can't you simply go there and check one out? Actually playing the models you like should answer most of your questions.

I was there last week and didn't see any digital pianos there. But I'll call and ask.

I'm with peterws here, and can't believe people are gushing over the ES8 without having tried it. It may well be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but also may not be the one for you.

Ah, it's not even a stretch to know what the ES8 sounds and feels like. It's all trickle down from Kawai's pricier boards. Incremental update, and a good one. The rest is same as ES7 which was pretty good to begin with.

You very well could be right. But there isn't much out there other than specs for the ES8. No reviews yet. No hands-on feedback.

As ElmerJFudd notes the ES7 is receiving the trickle-down technology from higher-end models and hopefully getting a sound improvement boost from the HI-XL sound rendering process.


***

And by the way, I need to clarify what is coming from where.

Kawai James reported in the earlier ES8 thread that:

"The ES8 effectively features the same HI-XL sound engine and SK-EX/SK-5/EX piano sounds as the CA97/CA67. It also adds the K-60 upright piano sound previously only available on the MP11/MP7 and CAx7/CAx5 models, while bringing the rest of the sounds up to the quality of the CA97/CA67."

So -

The piano samples in the ES8 include the SK-EX, SK-5, Kawai EX, and an upright from the CA97/CA67 (and other) models.

The HI-XL sound engine comes from the MP7, MP11, and CA17/67/97.

The Responsive Hammer III (RHIII) action comes from the CA25/35/series.

I like the fact that these are mature technologies from higher end instruments. This keeps the ES8 off of the bleeding edge perhaps?

To get a sense of the sounds of the sampled pianos, I listened to all of the soundcloud demos (posted by Kawai Australia) from the CA67/97 pianos. Not too sure about how much I like them as yet.

https://soundcloud.com/kawai-australia/sets/kawai-ca67ca97-demos

I don't think there are any ES8s in the US yet. They may already be released in Europe, as Kawai James noted that the ES7 is very popular there and Kawai may get a boost by selling there first.

As you all note, we need to try one out for ourselves!!!

It may be they don't carry digital pianos. I've never been there, I just know when I tried looking up a Kawai dealer that was the closest one to me. I know when I went into one of the local piano stores where I live and asked about digital pianos they looked very disdainful and sent me on my way.

Finfan, that can even happen to you in a Kawai dealer, if its one that specializes in acoustics.

Darn good marketing, if you ask me. Now they can pitch the price upwards for you Yanks. . . .

Let's see how that plays out with the Kawai ES8...

Thomann.de
€1,259.66
USD1,408.43
Excluding VAT, shipping costs extra
USD Guideline price only

What's the VAT and shipping going to add to the price?
I'm not familiar with the UK.

From Kraft Music to NJ $1,999 + free shipping (ground). State sales tax is 7%, so add $139.93.
$2138.93 USD for the east coast yanks.

AZ_Astro,

You may be better going here, soundcloud playback is 128 Kbps, at least here you get a bit higher quality, broken down by each instrument, the ES8 is on there too with a demos section of each of the included sounds.

http://www.kawai.co.uk/digitalpianos.htm

Somewhere in that CA97/Ca67 thread in the last few pages of that long thread, there is a high quality wav recording of the CA97 too IIRC.

Personally, I like the new Shigeru EX concert grand sample most myself out of all of them, first one in the list under the CA97, not the SK5, it is nice too, but the tonal colours of the concert grand, yummie.

Is it enough to replace ivory ? only you can decide.

Personally, not ever having experienced the Kawais except for the CN24/34 when I bought first over a year ago, that I now have no recollection of how it sounded, out of all the demos I heard the MP7/MP11 never really spoke to me in a way to say, what a gorgeous sound.

There was a demo here not so long ago comparing MP7/ES7 and I felt the ES7 on that particular recording comparison sounded more wholesome and pleasing to me, even though in some ways the MP7 more detailed and a bit more expressive, ( may be down to performance and settings) but somehow the MP7 was less pleasing to me overall out of those two. Strange world isn't it, purely my subjective view though

Of course, great pianist can make sound anything great, but all else being equal, the new shigeru ex I like most out of the lot, it's the winner for me, for my personal taste anyway. Ideally I'd need to hear the same pieces compared as well, but it is the impression I get based on what I heard so far, that kawai made a step forward in my book with the latest newest Shigeru EX samples over the older ones, but, to each their own I guess.

Thanks for that link. Kawai UK has done a nice job with that website. It's intuitive and comprehensive.

I was so happy to see all of the ES8 demos. And - not surprisingly - they are indistinguishable from the CA97 demos. They sounded exactly the same. The only difference that I found was file-size and those were even close as well. For example, the ES8 SK-EX demo was 3.11 mb. The CA97 SK-EX demo, which played the exact same song was 3.10 mb.

I listened to some more demos (of the CA97) played by David Izquierdo Azzouz at this link and these were quite nice.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiGKcpYMK-nmpA3ZmwOjxEw