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#2456075 - Yesterday at 01:18 PM Roland wifi/bluetooth connections
pe2Dave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 15
Researching prior to buying my first piano, I'm coming down to Kawai vs Roland. One aspect which (possibly my own bias) comes up. Roland have bluetooth/wifi access to an iPad for 'tuition' (of a sort). I'm finding this a fairly heavy plus point for Roland.

I'm wondering if any Roland learners do make use of their software / tuition aids, and if so, how useful would you judge it?

Dave

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#2456117 - Yesterday at 03:52 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 285
<DevilsAdvocate>Most important is to maintain a sense of priorities and proportion. While bells and whistles are nice, what really matters are the feel of the keybed and sound that the instrument produces.</DevilsAdvocate>

Having said that, the new Rolands and Kawais do have some awfully nice sounding and feeling keyboards!
_________________________
Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800
My motto: Play and Let Play!

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#2456241 - Today at 01:57 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
pe2Dave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 15
<grin/> Point taken.

My question related to learning - is that facility a bell/whistle, or a useful addition as software gets more of a hold in this area?

Has anyone any positive / negative experience of the Roland software? The possibilities are quite significant, I'm curious why (AFAIK) only Roland are making use of the iPad / PC's for DPs.

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#2456261 - Today at 04:38 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
augustm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/11/15
Posts: 38
Loc: Paris
there is the question as to how long ipads remain compatible too. Will it work in 5 years
when apple has changed everything...
_________________________
More Geese than Swans now live, more Fools than Wise.

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#2456263 - Today at 05:12 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
AndrewJCW Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/14
Posts: 180
Loc: Middle of nowhere, Australia
There's a lot of tuition programs out there and none of them have been that impactful. Any human with ears, (including the player) can tell if you're hitting the right notes or not so having a computer tell you as well doesn't really change that much. Furthermore modern programs have a lot of trouble creating the depth or breadth of material to compete with books or teachers. The popular teaching methods have been around and refined for decades.
_________________________
Youtube Channel

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#2456265 - Today at 05:20 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
pe2Dave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 15
Which presents a very negative image of DP tuition via software.

Thanks for your views.

(Augustm - iPad may update / go out of fashion, but the interface is there, and could easily be used by other systems, though I would guess Apple will survive in one guise or another. )

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#2456302 - Today at 08:57 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 218
Loc: Germany
In addition to having a teacher, I also use the iPad app Piano Maestro. The perceived value of such apps seems to vary significantly. Some people say that you put less brain into practicing, because you are not doing everything at once: sight reading, listening to the notes played, to the rhythm etc. You are taking every note as it comes scrolling in from the right instead of pre-reading and grouping them in your mind.

At the moment I think its great, though. Doing smaller steps at a time makes it easier to have a success and having success makes learning fun. You have immediate feedback on how many notes you read/played right and rhythm. It never gets tired to tell you and to accompany you. It has simple versions of nice tunes and teaches them to you in multiple steps.

It currently supports the interfaces Microphone (so you can use it with an acoustic piano) and USB/MIDI (via iPad USB adapter). Bluetooth would remove the cable required and would still be as precise as USB. Microphone does not catch all errors (yet), but it will probably get better.

The latency of Bluethooth LE is probably not significant, but I have really no idea. And as long as it looks like MIDI to the applications, all is well.
_________________________
Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)

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#2456303 - Today at 09:01 AM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
pe2Dave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 15
Useful Hendrick. To confirm, you re using the CN35 via USB to the app on your iPad? Is that right? Then your playing on the keyboard interacts with the software to provide the 'lesson'? Is that right please?

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#2456371 - Today at 12:23 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 218
Loc: Germany
Yes, that is right. Of course, the CN35 works with Piano Maestro in USB mode as well as acoustic/microphone mode, but I find the USB mode has less lag / is more precise.

Check Youtube, there are videos on Piano Maestro by JoyTunes. Basically, the iPad app shows you what to play (the notes scroll in on the staff) and then you get visual feedback on how well you are doing. And statistics and a grade at the end.

There is a significant amount of "gamification", because of course they also want to address children/teens. They have an even simpler/more gamelike version called Piano Dust Buster. My six year old actually calls this a game, not piano practice :-) which is the whole point I guess. :-)
_________________________
Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)

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#2456373 - Today at 12:27 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 218
Loc: Germany
Ah, one more thing: the person of the family playing with one of the apps often has to play silent on request of other family members.

So the set up is: iPad audio out -> CN35 line in -> headphones and additionally the iPad is connected via USB adapter to the CN35. This way, the person playing the CN35 has the sound from the app as well as from the piano and the other family members only hear the soft thumping of the piano and the exclamations of frustration or joy ("three stars, dad, THREE STARS!!1! LOOK!")
_________________________
Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)

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#2456388 - Today at 01:15 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: Hendrik42]
pe2Dave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/15
Posts: 15
Thanks Hendrick! Sounds perfect for your six year old (and you when learning!).

I'm guessing there are more out there, possibly with a more serious audience too.

I was marking Kawai down, but it seems wrong. Roland must have such app support too.

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#2456416 - Today at 04:27 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 218
Loc: Germany
Apps such as Piano Maestro, Synthesia, Piano Tutor etc. all have generic MIDI over USB support. Which means that is does not matter if your DP is from Kawai or Roland, Casio, Yamaha, Korg ... they all support that.

Bluetooth I have not tested, no idea. Theoretical it could be all transparent. I mean, internally in tablets, the Bluetooth is always attached via USB to the internal bus and the CPU. But I have not tested this. Maybe I will, when I test the new Roland at the end of September.

With regard to seriousness, I really do not care if there is a funny little character on the right side of the screen jumping in line with the notes I play as long as I keep getting better every week :-). But I am really good at ignoring stuff like that...
_________________________
Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)

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#2456457 - Today at 07:40 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: Hendrik42]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10784
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By Hendrik42
"three stars, dad, THREE STARS!!1! LOOK!"


wink

No doubt about it, the Piano Maestro app is a really great (and fun) way to learn.

Regarding Bluetooth connectivity, I'm a big fan of the mi.1 by Quiccosound. Just plug it into the MIDI IN/OUT connectors on your DP and you're able to use MIDI apps (including the Kawai Virtual Technician app) completely wirelessly. I have one plugged into my Nord for controlling Korg Module, NeoSoul Keys, Galileo Organ, etc. - really great product.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2456485 - Today at 10:09 PM Re: Roland wifi/bluetooth connections [Re: pe2Dave]
lunobili Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 46
Loc: Japan
I have a Roland DP and I am fairly familiar with those apps. Honestly I do not think you should base your choice on them. You might still want to consider a Roland because it is indeed a very good instrument, just do not base your choice specifically on the apps.

Here are a few points I would like to give you:
1) The "Piano Partner" app is probably the one you are referring to when you mention 'tuition'. That is way too basic to be of any use. I personally never use it (notice that I am a beginner, but it is still way too basic). You can play along with some predefined pieces at different levels and follow the score on the iPad, but AFAIK you are stuck with the pre-loaded pieces, now way to add your own.

2) "Piano Designer". I personally do not use it much, but if you like to tinker with the sound settings there is nothing wrong with it. It is a nice to have.

3) "Air Performer". I use it quite a bit, it streams music wirelessly to the DP so that you can play along with it, but here are a few things about it: at least the wifi version uses some proprietary protocol, you will not be able to use any other application over wifi (the new Bluetooth connection might have changed it, I do not know). Streaming music wirelessly can be hard in a wifi congested area (such as an apartments building), I did struggle with it, although I found a solution for that.

I hope it helps,
Luca

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