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#2456411 - 09/03/15 04:10 PM Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz
rychubil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Hello
I am going to buy VST piano like Synthogy Ivory II or Vienna Imperial. I am not sure yet, which one I will choose. I am going to play and record my ideas, and compositions. They'll be based on classical music and classical harmony, usually kept in a calm tone. Very important for my music will be wide range of articulation and dynamic as well. I have two questions.
1. Is it possible on Synthogy Ivory II and Vienna Imperial, to set tuning precisely at A = 432 Hz?
2. What is your opinion about two VSTs? What are differences?
Thank you

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#2456418 - 09/03/15 04:29 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
Frédéric L Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 245
Loc: France
1/ Yes, there is a tuning function on Ivory : "The four up-down arrows above the Tuning switch control the basic pitch of Ivory’s piano. A4 pitch sets the pitch of the A above middle C. This value defaults to 440.0 Hz, but some recording or performance situations require a different reference pitch. The range is 420.0 to 460.0 Hz." (read in the 1.5 manual, but it should apply to Ivory II). For VSL, see https://vsl.co.at/en/Keyboards_Complete/Vienna_Imperial#!Gui at the bottom left of the picture, here is the pitch setting.


Edited by Frédéric L (09/03/15 04:38 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha CLP150, Ivory II (American Concert D, Italian, 3 grand pianos, 4 uprights), Truekeys, Pianoteq

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#2456431 - 09/03/15 05:34 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
rychubil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
I know that both of the VSTs have tuning control. My question was about A = 432Hz strictly. Do you know as a user with experience?
I have Nord piano 2. There is 431.9Hz or 432.2Hz, No 432Hz - impossible for tuning.
BTW - I can't find manual operation for both.

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#2456439 - 09/03/15 06:30 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 832
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I have experimented with Ivory (first version) and 432Hz once. It sounded awful! The samples are originally recorded in 440Hz and playing them in other tuning than that is detrimental to the quality. I'd go for Pianoteq although its sound characteristics are questionable by many.
_________________________
https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2456442 - 09/03/15 06:38 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
AZ_Astro Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 608
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By rychubil
Hello
I am going to buy VST piano like Synthogy Ivory II or Vienna Imperial. I am not sure yet, which one I will choose. I am going to play and record my ideas, and compositions. They'll be based on classical music and classical harmony, usually kept in a calm tone. Very important for my music will be wide range of articulation and dynamic as well. I have two questions.
1. Is it possible on Synthogy Ivory II and Vienna Imperial, to set tuning precisely at A = 432 Hz?
2. What is your opinion about two VSTs? What are differences?
Thank you


I have Ivory II and was easily able to set the tuning to 432. But I think Cybergene has a point. It was sampled at A440, not at 432, so some software adjustment is utilized to change the pitch and the further you get from A440, the less likely it is to be satisfactory.

2 cents
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2456443 - 09/03/15 06:40 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
AZ_Astro Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 608
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
I haven't tried Vienna Imperial but I still think Ivory II is pretty awesome and I don't think that about any other VST that I own.
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2456463 - 09/03/15 07:49 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
Alexander Borro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 417
Loc: UK
I own Ivory 2 American D and can also confirm you can set the tuning to one decimal place, so 432.0 Hz is possible, however I found the result to not sound so great overall, not immediately very obvious when you load a fast passage midi I just tried, but press some individual keys and hold them down for a time and listen more carefully, you do really notice it the more away you go from the naturally recorded tuning the worse it gets, however the timbre shift option helped a little I thought, however, then the problem crops up elsewhere on a different notes, but overall a few notches on the timbre shift setting I thought helped it a little bit.

You can try both of these instruments on www.try-sound.com. the latency is poor, but still you can get fair idea and play around with the GUI to see what you can do and play a midi sample. It certainly helped me that service to help me decide.

btw I think VSL imperial sounds awesome but it is much more costly than a single ivory piano like American D, and IIRC, no half pedalling either in VSL if that matters to you.


Edited by Alexander Borro (09/03/15 07:58 PM)
_________________________
Self taught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course book 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various others.
Casio Celviano AP 450 & various peripherals.

My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro

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#2456518 - Yesterday at 01:55 AM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 832
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I found my experiments and recordings. It was part of a debate 440 vs 432 in another Internet forum.

http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~kumanov/my_music/a4_frequency_test/

First two are recorded with Ivory 1 and the other two with Pianoteq 4 trial so some notes are missing. Same MIDI file was used for all.


Edited by CyberGene (Yesterday at 02:06 AM)
_________________________
https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2456548 - Yesterday at 04:17 AM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
rychubil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Yes, I am aware that all VSTs were sampled on 440Hz. Already I got information that tuning in Vienna Imperial is only possible between 436 and 444.99 Hz. BTW - Someone have more experience with Vienna Imperial, especially about dynamic and articulation range?
I have other question which can be sounds strange but I am not advanced pianist.
How about using half pedaling? How is useful and when?


Edited by rychubil (Yesterday at 05:15 AM)

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#2456616 - Yesterday at 11:54 AM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
rychubil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Ok, I already have found some information about half-pedaling:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1952238/Re:_Damper_with_half_pedal_eff.html
If someone have any experience with Vienna Imperial, write please some impressions.
Does someone make a comparison of Ivory II Steinway Concert D Grand vs American Concert D II? If yes - what impressions?

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#2456626 - Yesterday at 12:22 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
Frédéric L Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 245
Loc: France
About the sound, this Virtual Piano Comparison may help you :

VSL Vienna Imperial (named on the video Imperial Grand... But the comment is about the Vienna Imperial) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rta1kxD0Pzg#t=1283

Synthogy Ivory Bösendorfer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rta1kxD0Pzg#t=1160


Edited by Frédéric L (Yesterday at 03:49 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha CLP150, Ivory II (American Concert D, Italian, 3 grand pianos, 4 uprights), Truekeys, Pianoteq

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#2456707 - Yesterday at 05:37 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
rychubil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
VSL Vienna Imperial sounds rich and warm on this video, much better than Ivory's Bossie.
How about Ivory II Steinway Concert D Grand vs American Concert D II?

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#2456737 - Yesterday at 06:55 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 663
I recall reading that the Vienna Imperial eventually got half-pedalling and even more importantly (in my opinion) re-pedalling. The latter (really both) is an absolute lockout feature to me. But I've never played the Vienna Imperial so I don't know for sure the features were added. I can't see any reason to spend that much to try it when I find the Vintage D so exceptionally good. I've been playing the Vintage D and the Ivory II American D (preferred over the Ivory II German D) since it came out. I like the American D when I just want a change for change sake, but I really prefer the Vintage D on almost everything I play.


Edited by Macy (Yesterday at 07:05 PM)
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#2456738 - Yesterday at 06:59 PM Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 663
Originally Posted By rychubil
VSL Vienna Imperial sounds rich and warm on this video, much better than Ivory's Bossie.
How about Ivory II Steinway Concert D Grand vs American Concert D II?
I don't like the Bossie at all, and I've rarely heard anyone that did. I like the American D over the German D, but a few people prefer the German. It is darker. IMO, the American D excels in its sustain in the top 2 octaves.


Edited by Macy (Yesterday at 06:59 PM)
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#2456818 - 41 minutes 7 seconds ago Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: rychubil]
slobajudge Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/14
Posts: 25
Ivory is a good piano, I have also Vienna imperial. Well, nothing compares to Vienna ( I don`t have Garritan CFX). This is my first and only choice when I want to play solo, to record. I never regret for buying it. Very simple and powerful program, no nonsense settings etc. excellent piano sound.

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#2456821 - 11 minutes 54 seconds ago Re: Ivory II or Vienna Imperial on 432 Hz [Re: slobajudge]
dire tonic Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2390
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By slobajudge
Ivory is a good piano, I have also Vienna imperial. Well, nothing compares to Vienna ( I don`t have Garritan CFX). This is my first and only choice when I want to play solo, to record. I never regret for buying it. Very simple and powerful program, no nonsense settings etc. excellent piano sound.

I'm unimpressed by Vienna although I admit to some prejudice. Those recordings I've heard which are passable have a suspiciously doctored MIDI about them. As we've all found to our cost, the only reliable test for a VI is to play it.

Slobajudge, are any of your Vienna recordings available to listen to?

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