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There is a 1917 Baldwin E, 5'8" grand, for sale in my area. Evidently the piano came with the house when the current owners moved in a few years ago. They had a tech out to tune it and he also wrote up a short report on the piano. Here is what he had to say:

"The case has a small number of nicks and marks, both bridges are excellent condition, soundboard has no cracks, crown is adequate, ribs are well intact, strings show age and slight corrosion. Plate finish is tarnished and soundboard finish is checkered. The pinblock is adequate with good torque for stable tunings. Action has an amount of wear slightly less typical for its age, hammer wear is light to moderate, sostenuto regulation is poor. It is well in tune to A=440 standard pitch."

It seems all the structural aspects are good: bridges, soundboard, etc. I would probably get new strings, pins, hammers, and action parts. One of my questions is if there are compatible action parts available or if I would have to replace the entire action. I'm guessing this would be at least a $5000 investment, but the current owners want to next to nothing for the piano. It looks quite good for an old piano. If I can figure out how to upload photos here, I will. From the pictures, I had originally thought it had been reconditioned or rebuilt at some point, but the tech's report proved that wrong. So what say you all?

I suspect it has had some work in the past.

Action parts are probably available, depending on what you want. It is likely that the action is reasonably good as is.

My suspicion when I saw the pictures was also that it must have had work done in the past. The case looks too good to be original, but who knows. Same for the plate and strings. It could have been refurbished 50 years ago which would account for there being less wear than there should be, according to the tech. And a 100-year-old pin block being stable...? I guess it's possible. It was probably replaced at some point. Of course, either way it might be due for new strings.

I guess I should go check it out. It would cost more to have it moved than they are asking for the piano. If I like it as-is, I would probably still like it after I had new hammers and strings put in it.

$5000 is probably not enough to do the work you have in mind. That figure would hardly cover replacing the action what with rebushing keys and new back checks. However this falls into the years of really good Baldwins. Very rebuildable and with good results.

One thing to keep in mind is that since the case looks like it has been refinished (the inside rim is way darker), you can have the strings, pin block and dampers done at a separate time than the action to break up the cost. I always put a new pin block in. It does not make sense to restring into an older block. I have seen pin blocks this age work but you are taking a huge chance that the pins will loosen well before the strings go bad. Then later if you have to have a new block you will have to remove the recently installed strings and start over.

These old Baldwins had really good actions and they can sometimes be restored but the labor involved to completely rebuild an action is so high that replacement with the appropriate parts is a better long term solution.

Thanks for all your input, Sally. I've heard before about the "Golden Age" of Baldwin, and this falls into that age range, for sure. If the piano seems decent as it is, I like your idea about spreading the work (and cost) out. I wonder if the hammers even need replacing, as the tech's report says they have little wear. It makes me wonder if they were replaced at the same time the case was refinished. Good eye on the outer vs. inner case. I wonder what else was done at that time. This piano will need some work, certainly, but it could be a real "sleeper". Considering the minimal initial cost, it could be worth it.

Are you sure it have been refinished or strings changed ?

The back of the music rack is the same color than the inside of the rim, it may be only a whitening due to the UV .

The Balwin actions where so bad it is better to envisage a new stack ? Leverage is not standard ? it is possible to mount new parts on the original stack sometime.

Renner make parts for Baldwin (I received a grand jack set for Baldwin, less tall than the usual jacks and with a longer tender)

5000 is a little short indeed for a new action , the cost is probably about 2000 more if all is done correctly.

BUt it may be a good opportunity assuming the seller knows the repair costs he can leave the piano for a very low price, it happened to me yet, not with that situation , but this where the child"s piano, and the owner wanted it to be rebuild and to play so they really accepted a symbolic price or give the piano (one even paid the move)
This should be even easier today as old pianos are having less value than 20 years ago.

Sorry to be like that but this is reality.

In searching old Baldwin threads here, I saw there was an owner of a similar vintage Baldwin C (predecessor to the "L") looking for info on rebuilding the action. Del answered and said that parts are available and a good tech should be able to handle the job. I have a feeling this is the same case for this "E".

Olek is right, though, about there not being much value in an old, unrestored piano. Thank goodness the asking price is minimal. And I mean minimal.

Then in the best case you can even play the piano for some years before it really need to be repaired "in deep"

With first steps as action parts repinning some cloth changed (keys, whippens heel) new backchecks if necessary, hammer work, if the piano stay in tune and have some musical ability it is also a sort of pleasure to play an original old instrument with its original strings.

That is the case for some Bechstein vertical for instance, it is somewhat "authentic" to play an old piano in original condition, if it did not play a lot.

The hammers can be recovered with new felts by Abel or Renner, but you need to wait about one month. (they also can change all the center pins, the knuckles) that is a way to minimise the costs).

Is the goal here a playable piano or a completely restored like-new piano? I've gone through a similar experience recently with a Lyon and Healy baby grand that was in similar shape. The technician has mostly worked on the action, but also tuned and cleaned it. Except for the bass, there's no reason to consider replacing the strings. All told I haven't spent more than $1,000 (including having it moved). Why mess with the strings and pins on the Baldwin if they're still in good shape?

Do not mess with strings, we change bass strings on relatively recent pianos and sometime on really old ones , but if the piano will have all strings and tuning pin changed in a near future of less than 10 years, we will not change the bass strings and only the bass tuning pins, leaving an aspect of a job half done.

Taking out old strings always lower the torque of the tuning pins, if they hold now better leave them.

Cleaning the bass strings, twisting some of them, may be enough.

The job done on your precedent piano was really minimal if I read the cost correctly

New felt on hammers is good if they are so worn that reshaping make them too thin and too light,

To have a better touch in most cases new key bushing are necessary (and new punching s under the keys,)

new centers to the hammers , new knuckles if necessary, new backchecks

The idea is to do mostly things that do not need to be done again later.

The goal for me is to have a good piano. It doesn't need to restored in like-new condition, but something several notches above merely "playable" is good. I will take a look at the piano myself sometime in the next few days and then consult with my piano tech to see what he thinks. I assumed that all the strings should be replaced just because I know strings lose elasticity and therefore vibrancy over the years, but I will probably leave that assessment until I play it and my tech sees it. I'd be happy if the strings were good (saving some serious money in the process!). I guess the good news is that these old Baldwins are good enough to warrant some restoration, especially given the small initial investment.

To me this looks like a piano that doesn't need a major rebuild at this time. Regulation and minor repairs should be its lot for maybe the next 10 - 20 years, at which time it'll be a rebuild candidate.

Awesome! Thanks for your input. It does seem to be in great condition for its age, according to the tech's report. Now I just have to go play it!

Many of the Baldwins from this era were very well made. They usually have flat-sawn maple for the bridge caps. Steinway and Mason&Hamlin used quarter-sawn maple. The quartered wood is more durable.

In my experience the condition of the bridge is more important than whether the soundboard has a little cracking to the clarity, richness, and dynamics of the tone. When you do get to the rebuild point, I suggest making sure your rebuilder knows how to fit and finish replacement bridge caps and they use quartered maple for the task.

The skill and judgement of your rebuilder is the single most important factor in a piano like this Baldwin to achieving stellar results and providing for maximum return on your investment.

I would expect, with some work, this would be a very enjoyable piano. Have you inspected and played the piano yourself?

Thanks for your thoughts on the rebuild. If the piano is decent as it is, I might buy it and play it for a few years and then tackle a rebuild.

My other slight dilemma is that there is a nice Baldwin L from the late '80's for sale near me as well, and they only want $10k for it, which is a pretty great price. Maybe I should just buy the L outright rather than getting the old E and then having to put 10k worth of work into it down the road. That L does sound mighty nice... probably nicer than any E (or R model, even) will sound. Decisions, decisions...

No, I plan on possibly going out in the next few days to take a look at it and play it.

My vote is for the Baldwin L...

You might even do a bit of negotiating on the price.

As much as I've enjoyed tinkering with older pianos, I've learned that newer is better, as a general rule.

Good luck!

Rick

Yeah... The L really took me from the first time I played it. It has everything I was looking for in a piano: depth, power, dynamics. Just a really great "voice", for lack of a better term. It has been sitting there for over a month. Maybe it's time I bit the bullet and convinced the partner.

I know if I bought that L, I would not need to buy another piano ever again.

"I know if I bought that L, I would not need to buy another piano ever again."