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Joined: Oct 2015
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I have a CP100 I bought for use as a midi controller and use with Pianotec however it's a pain to devote a laptop to it, the action isn't very good, and I just want a normal console piano not tied to a PC but with better sound.
CP100 is about as bad as you can get so I know anything is going to be an improvement but I want to get the most realism I can get for what I can spend. I originally was looking at a Clavinova 535 but they are more than I want to spend, and I can't just order one and would have to find somewhere near that sold and delivered.
So now I'm left looking at things like the Arius 162 or the Kawai KDP90.
The things that interest me are realistic expression and timbre change with velocity, string harmonics, dampener realism in response and damper noise, synth ivory tops and playability.
If I could I'd get an acoustic upright because nothing beats them in the digital world but I don't have the room, cash, and need something I can move easily if needed.
Amazon has the KDP90 for ~$1100 which is significantly cheaper than that Arius 162 and as near as I can tell the largest difference is in the amp wattage.
I can't find any comparison videos.
What would you recommend for someone who wants to spend that much and looking for realism over useless features?
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Joined: Sep 2009
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This is not likely, and probably not possible: I just want a normal console piano not tied to a PC but with better sound. You'll need to spend over $5000 to get a piano that sounds as good as what you can get from a PC. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is. On a $1500 budget you'll have to scale back your expectations.
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Suzuki SS-1000!
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Kodack, welcome to the forum.
May I ask, what is your maximum budget, and where are you based? (Yes, I realise that you quote prices in dollars, but this does not necessarily mean that you are located in the US).
In addition to the KDP90 and YDP162, I would also suggest that you consider the Roland F-140 and Casio PX850 in this price range.
Best of luck with your purchase.
Kind regards, James x
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Realistically less than $1500 US would be ideal but I could go higher if there is something significantly better that's over my budget for a few hundred more.
I know a sampled instrument is going to be hard to compete with a PC physical model but for me the Pianotec is more about good recordings in my music production than it is about sitting down, playing or practicing for awhile, and then doing something else. The biggest pain with soft synths is the fact you need an OS you have to keep rebooting for updates, and the normal pc headaches, I just want something as good as I can get for the price that will be a good compromise between realism of a good PC piano, and the toy keyboard sounds of my CP100.
To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I have several hardware synthesizers, several software pianos, and even my Korg Triton has a terrible piano to my ears. Way too bright, no expression, etc.
I used to own a Yamaha 88key synth, not a digital piano, I forget the model, like a S80 or something like that and it sounded decent for a synth but still not good enough.
What I like about piano is the harmonies and the way the sound spreads in interesting ways as the different strings vibrate in harmony with each other. I liken it to acoustic vs digital drums. As a drummer I would never go to digital. But you can pack a drumset inside a closet if you need the room and acoustic kits start at the $500 mark. If I could get an acoustic piano that didn't need serious work done for under 2,000 I would seriously consider it.
So that leaves me with a decent console piano that will bring out my creative expression with interesting sounds and harmonies that aproximates the feel and sound of an acoustic. I primarily play jazz and a little classical. Vince Guaraldi stuff and maybe sometimes rock like Ben Folds or Elton John.
I've listened to Rolands and hate the artificial and overly bright timbres their budget consoles have, I prefer Korg for synth but they made terrible pianos. Yamaha is the first name I think of for piano and I was looking at Clavinet, then Arius but then I heard some good things about the Kawai so thought I'd ask.
Last edited by Kodack; 10/14/15 09:19 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Yamaha is the first name I think of for piano and I was looking at Clavinet... Sorry to be overly pedantic, but I believe you mean Clavinova. The Clavinet was/is a completely different (and some might say arguably much cooler...) instrument originally produced by Hohner. However, it's true that 'Clavinova' is almost synonymous with 'digital piano'. By the way, I would strongly recommend play-testing the instruments you are considering before reaching a purchasing decision - online audio demos and YouTube videos can only get you so far. Cheers, James x
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Hah, freudian slip or wish fulfillment. I'd take a Clavinet any day. I'm also looking into Casio PX860 which I heard is a lot of bang for the buck, and if I go high spec over budget I heard the CE220 is a heck of an instrument. I want to narrow it down before I get in a music store and start giggling manically and wanting to play every piano they have. Sometimes simplicity beats out other things. I play several instruments so any time I don't have to spend setting things up is time I get to use practicing and I love the idea of hitting an on button, knocking out a few songs when I get some time, then going back to other things. I have been checking out the CE220 after work, listening to recordings, watching reviews and I think I'm going to have to splurge and get it. The deal maker was having an actual acoustic piano keyboard with wood keys ripped straight from their actual acoustic lineup. The sound quality is pretty nice as well especially the bass notes. They have a warm and rich sound to their sustain with lots of natural harmonics which works especially well for the kind of music I like to play. It's probably more piano than I need but I've been playing off and on a few decades so I'll be using it for a long time to come.
Last edited by Kodack; 10/14/15 11:45 PM.
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Albeit significantly more expensive, I still think you should give the Kawai CA67 and Roland HP603 (or even 605) a try. The newer rolands have better sound than the previous generation ones, so you might discover you like it. These are pricier, but presumably they're the most accessible options if you want to get arguably the best touch and sound (notwithstanding the speaker system) without spending a couple of times more for an instrument. For your money you may be able to get a discounted hp504 which I prefer even to the high end clavinovas (action and sound wise), but that's a matter of preference and you may feel differently.
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Joined: Jun 2014
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Sounds like a VPC1 might be worthwhile for you to check into. It's just above your price range and will plug right into your copy of pianoteq. I think its the best compromise given your budget.
If you are in the US you probably won't be able to find an rm3ii action to test drive.
I've played the CE220 in addition to the CN24 and CN34 and while they are okay actions I just wasn't impressed with them, especially not next to the GF action.
If you are going to compromise you may as well go all the way and drop back to a casio px160. Go big, go small or go home. IMHO midrange digitals aren't very appealing.
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Don't forget the Yamaha YDP S52 released this year, a very nice piano for that budget.
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Sounds like a VPC1 might be worthwhile for you to check into. It's just above your price range and will plug right into your copy of pianoteq. I wouldn't be too sure of that. I'm still running 2.0 but I've been eyeballing 5. I might install the demo and do some comparisons this weekend. Even 2.3 still sounds pretty good though. I used the plugin to record the piano track in this cover https://soundcloud.com/subparanon/i-guess-thats-why-they-call-it-the-blues-with-vocals
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I decided not to buy a console piano. I went ahead and upgraded to Pianoteq 5, bought some high quality pedals, bought a laptop I can dedicate to the piano with touch screen and I configured it to boot to pianoteq. I'm also putting Kontakt5 and fruityloops on it so I can do piano or synth work as well as chip away at my songs easier. I'm moving my cdp100 to a different room where I have more room and am more relaxed than my cramped studio and I can do work in there, keep everything on network and finish production in my studio.
I'm waiting for my new stand and bench to arrive in a few days. From what I read the action on the 100 isnt terrible and I figured I can better spend that money on a laptop rig for it, upgrading to 5, and I'm going to add Maudio BX8s for amplification. I have a pair in my studio and they can reproduce even the lowest notes of a piano. I also got a laptop mount for the stand so i can just wake the laptop, already have pianoteq loaded and just play. Thank you again for your advice.
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Crap. I really hate the action on my CDP100. I tried to make it work but no bueno. I ordered a Arius 162 in Black Walnut for 1299 shipped.
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Joined: Apr 2015
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Kodack, You bought a great piano! I have the Ydp-s51 slimline version and it's great. Enjoy!!
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