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Greetings,
Hope you guys won't mind my asking a technical question.
Got a call from a lady I know from church that has a 28 year old Baldwin studio piano, just shipped in from Florida. (I'm in north central Tennessee.) She said it needed tuned but also that there were "hammers coming loose". Upon further questioning, and a handy-dandy picture from her cell phone, it's actually the FELT ungluing itself from the wooden part of the hammer. Dang! And it's not just one or two. From what she's telling me, it's more like 20 or 30 of 'em. DANG!!
I haven't seen these kinds of things for quite a while. Normally, in my past service work, if a set of hammers were that bad, it was time for a new set, I wouldn't have even messed with trying to fix them.
But in this case, I know the lady really doesn't have much $$. It's likely gonna be a serious expense for her to just come up with the $125 for a good tuning. And I'm not up for that level of a freebie right now.
So the question is, are there some ways to glue felt back onto the hammer moldings that work out well? Or is trying to glue them back on an exercise in futility?
I'll freely admit to having used some CA glue for a quick and dirty on the occasional bass hammer that was rarely touched in years gone by. But not dozens of them, and not all over the keyboard. I also can't help but think that the tone of this thing would be all over the place afterward.
To be honest, I'm torn between giving her an estimate for replacing the set, which I'm pretty confident she won't be able to afford, or gracefully bowing out. But I figured before I chose one or the other, maybe I'd just throw it out here and see whether anyone thinks there's a good repair solution that won't come back to bite me in the butt that I haven't thought of. (??)
Thanks for the input!
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Of course there is a cheap solution. See: wrapping hammers Follow Chuck Behm's link and once your in his Facebook page scroll down until you reach the wrapping hammers pictures. They were posted on July 12, 2015. Enjoy.
Last edited by Gadzar; 10/12/15 07:30 PM.
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Thanks, Gadzar!
Definitely cheaper than a new set of hammers. Still a good bit of labor involved.
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Bellyman, Chuck's wrapping is beautiful and professional.
For a quicker, rougher method but perfectly effective, use gel CA glue and small electrical cable ties.
You know the little plastic strips that you pull to length and they lock. Cut off the excess. If you get clear plastic ones it is hardly noticeable. It's very quick to do. (The gel CA glue goes onto the wooden hamer molding of course).
The cable tie will bite into the felt a little so it won't slip off. Once the CA glue has cured you can probably snip off the cable ties on the next visit.
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Why not work out some sort of payment plan for the hammer replacement job?
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You'd have to consider whether overall the piano is worth a new set of hammers, paid by instalments or all at once. Mind you, 28 years old isn't ancient!
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New set
BTW I tested it is possible to use pneumatic staples but only small enough, no way to have them passing all the wood and the felt straight.
SO one or 2 each side (will add some mass to the hammer indeed.
The cheap staples on cheap hammers (or on some refeltings) are not T shaped, there is a staple each side
Last edited by Olek; 10/13/15 10:07 AM.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Thanks, guys!
I'm not sure how this one is gonna turn out yet but it sounds like there are a few options.
I appreciate the input!
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I figured since you guys were kind enough to share your thoughts, I'd at least update the thread.
I ended up declining the job, for several reasons.
1) I have no shop to work in, and honestly, don't even have a kitchen table. I live in an RV. (Looking for a more conventional "house", hopefully with a shop of some kind, but not there yet.) And I didn't feel good about dealing with that many hammers in the customer's home.
2) I didn't feel confident that if I fixed the 30 or so hammers this week, that in another week or month, I wouldn't have another 30 doing the same thing. And at that point, will it be my fault for not fixing it right the first time (in the customer's eyes?)
3) Some of the hammers are not just "coming apart", the felt is completely detached from the wood molding. I really question what kind of tonal variations there might be even if I do my best to put them back together well. And again, if it sounds "funky", will it be my fault for not doing a good job?
4) When I think about all of what is involved in repair, and at $4/hammer, 88 of 'em add up to about $350 in labor, it almost feels like I'm not that far removed from just going ahead and replacing the hammers with new ones. And that puts me back to where I was in the first place, not having a shop and not wanting to do that job in the customer's home.
Anyway, I just don't feel good about doing the job and so I passed, this time. Right now, I wouldn't try to replace a bridge or build a new pinblock or any of a bunch of other stuff that I love doing either. I just don't have the place to do it. But hopefully someday before too much longer I'll be in a better position. I hate turning away work. My gut just says "pass" on this one and I gotta listen to it.
Thanks again for all of the input. I'm pretty sure I'll find it useful in times to come. Much appreciated.
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I figured since you guys were kind enough to share your thoughts, I'd at least update the thread.
I ended up declining the job, for several reasons.
1) I have no shop to work in, and honestly, don't even have a kitchen table. I live in an RV. (Looking for a more conventional "house", hopefully with a shop of some kind, but not there yet.) And I didn't feel good about dealing with that many hammers in the customer's home.
2) I didn't feel confident that if I fixed the 30 or so hammers this week, that in another week or month, I wouldn't have another 30 doing the same thing. And at that point, will it be my fault for not fixing it right the first time (in the customer's eyes?)
3) Some of the hammers are not just "coming apart", the felt is completely detached from the wood molding. I really question what kind of tonal variations there might be even if I do my best to put them back together well. And again, if it sounds "funky", will it be my fault for not doing a good job?
4) When I think about all of what is involved in repair, and at $4/hammer, 88 of 'em add up to about $350 in labor, it almost feels like I'm not that far removed from just going ahead and replacing the hammers with new ones. And that puts me back to where I was in the first place, not having a shop and not wanting to do that job in the customer's home.
Anyway, I just don't feel good about doing the job and so I passed, this time. Right now, I wouldn't try to replace a bridge or build a new pinblock or any of a bunch of other stuff that I love doing either. I just don't have the place to do it. But hopefully someday before too much longer I'll be in a better position. I hate turning away work. My gut just says "pass" on this one and I gotta listen to it.
Thanks again for all of the input. I'm pretty sure I'll find it useful in times to come. Much appreciated. Refelting being subcontracted, if you can send the assembly hammer shanks butt, to Germany (Abel) wait one month, you can have the job done without a kitchen table.
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Olek, I never knew that was an option. Still not something I think I want to get into but interesting to think about. 
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Good decision. It would likely be cheaper to replace the piano, unless you really cheated yourself on your costs.
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Oh! Refelting is an expensive solution!
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Florida Baldwin pianos with hammer felt separation can also have loose bridge caps and loose bridge aprons. All of that is due to being exposed to excessive moisture, usually in a environment lacking A/C. There are two many bad felts in this example to consider a repair - the entire set of hammers should be replaced, but only after the bridges are found to be in good condition. I turned down a spinet with felt seps last week. It wasn't worth a set of hammers. This being a studio might be worth it if the rest of the piano is in good shape. You can replace a set of hammers in the home - simply send samples out and have them bored to match the old shanks.
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Thanks, guys. Bob, I did wonder about things like loose bridge caps / aprons, that kind of thing as with the number of hammers falling apart, this thing must have been in some less than great environments. I was just getting the uneasy feeling deep down inside that I was going to bite off way more than I wanted to chew with this thing. And I usually pay dearly when I ignore that feeling deep down inside. I am kinda hoping that I'll get wind of what another tech suggests the lady do to her piano. It will be interesting to see. If I find out, I'll update here.
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Bellyman- Hammer felt separations on Florida Baldwins are so common, before tuning I always run my fingers under the hammers to check the undersides for loose felt. Baldwin must have used glue that softens with moisture. Other brands tend to fair better.
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