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Hi!

I have a Schultze Pollmann 126 Classico Series with inlaid sunburst... This piano is my first brand new piano and serves me and my professional pianist significant other quite well. I teach weekly lessons on it for a couple of neighborhood kiddos. It got me through my music degree. Moved from VA to CA and ultimately in my new home. The luxury of my new home is space... I have room for a grand!! HOORAY!!! Not sure I want to say goodby just yet to the SP!!

Here's where I am at... I am looking to spend 20-30k (cash) for the right grand. It needs to be 6-7ft. Since we are both pianists, one professionally, we require a decent piano. And we are well versed on brands. Of course a Killer B is our ideal, but unfortunately not our price point unless I finance a large chunk. We tried a restored O, a Schimmel art case, and a Yamaha C5 earlier this week. The O still needed some regulation and was about 97% restored. I think the price point was about 35k. The Schimmel 13k, while beautiful, had a darker tone. Of course the Yamaha was fine... workhorse... going for 16k.

This is just the beginning of our quest. SO... here are my questions...

How does Financing work from piano stores? How well do they pay for trades? (mine is a 10 year old, beautiful piano, well maintained, tuned every six months, played only by or under direct supervision of a musician...) Current new of the same model suggested retails $25k, assuming actual retail is closer to $15k... used model in pristine condition
?? I would guess $7-8? Trade in???? Any thoughts? Are dealers more liberal with trades when you go for a high end model?

I have contemplated buying from a private party. But we both have agreed it would be better to go with a dealer for our own personal reasons... and one of the dealers I have spoken with knows the story on all of her pianos... which is helpful. She also knows that we are a bit more discriminating...

I anticipate making a purchase by March. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Should I keep the upright? We have room, but 2 pianos is over kill... however she sure is a beauty.

Thanks!!
Denise

I would try to sell your piano privately, in order to get the most money out of it.

For 20-30k you can get a wonderful piano. I'm also looking for a grand in that price range also.

Check ebay, Craigs list, Pianomart, and PianoWorld ads to get an idea whats out there...

Personally I want a 7 footer like a Mason BB, Baldwin SF-10, Yamaha C-7, or Steinway B

Best of luck!

Oh, the B is my boyfriend's dream... I wish that I could go that high for one... Most of the used ones I am finding On Craig's range around 45-60k, I hesitate shopping anywhere else, simply because we have to play it first before purchasing. Of course I look there... but not seriously, just to get ideas of price. It's interesting how price is affected by region. Unfortunately, being in Southern CA, prices seem higher than... say... Kansas! LOL

Good luck! I would be curious to know what you ultimately choose... Pianos are an extension of our souls... in my opinion!! A dear friend of mine, singer, suggested a Young Chang... and I suggested he not make any more suggestions! LOL He was like, what? My piano is a YC Grand... To each his/her own!! :-)

My mother told me when I was 10 or so, that one day she would buy me a Steinway. Her estate is settling soon, and I could almost buy a new B with what I will be receiving, however, I want to put most of it away for my kids college tuition. That's why I budgeted 20-30k. However, the right piano may just persuade me.

Have you been here in southern cal? Santa Anta?

http://livingpianos.com/pianos/

He has a SF-10 I like, but too far for me to test.

I am down in San Diego. Santa Ana is a bit of a stretch if I can buy locally. Going to the link now, though! :-)

Since you are in the San Diego area, I suggest calling Mark Adams, RPT who is a very successful piano technician with a long time clientele of Steinway pianos. He may have an older customer who is downsizing and needs to sell their grand. His phone number is 853-583-3333.

Thank you! I will keep it in mind. I do know if I go Steinway, I will have to finance about half, which isn't an option from private sellers... But when we get close to purchase time, I may give him a call. I know my tuner doesn't do restorations anymore. Just tuning.

There's also a 9 ft. Knabe in the OP's price range last I looked.

neciebuggs:

Best wishes for your piano search!

I admire your plan to keep some extra for your kid's education: let me assure you that within your budget you can get a VERY fine piano!

For your benefit I can only repeat what I have said here for years:

"Get the best [suiting] piano you can find within your price range"

While not everybody likes me for suggesting not to pay too much attention to "brands", the truth is the more you look the more you will learn.The more you will also understand what I'm saying here.

If guided by brands, be prepared to pay for it - without necessarily getting more. Of course everything is based on comparison - but only within same or similar price range.

It's one of the best guarded secrets of the industry - and not everybody wants you to know about it.....

Become free of all the sales jargon, play your heart away and find the piano of your dreams!

You will.

Best of luck

Norbert

Thank you Norbert! My significant other has been playing professionally since he was 12. So he has played on the crappiest to the best pianos, all names, styles, etc... He will be the one guiding me for sound and touch because he can tell a good solid tone and great action after playing for just a few minutes. So yes, I know the Branding issue.... and know that even 2 pianos of the same model and year are not identical. I know Yamahas are pretty close... but even so. I also know that they can be regulated and tuned to our liking.

That being said... We definitely are not set on a Steinway, especially since the price point is a bit more than I am willing to pay at the moment... however, if the right one comes along, I have been known to make miracles happen (like being a single mom of 3 (2 already in college), a teacher, and buying a house last year ON MY own in San Diego! :-) )

My significant other would help more, but he's a professional pianist... aka: generally broke (although he recently was hired at Disneyland as a sub)! LOL

One of my favorite pianos to practice on in college was a Mason and Hamlin. I liked it better than the Steinway...

Pianos are like people, they all have their own personality! ;-)

Thanks for your reply!

This is totally plausable - you're not the only one...

One of our last customers constantly talked about a Steinway she also "remembered from College".
No doubt it was a fine, memorable piano.

But, as she explained, this was some 20 years ago and at the time she didn't have to sign a cheque to get and play on the piano.

Today is different. This time you will have to pay yourself and need to make the decision yourself.

There's no quick formula except having often a choice like buying a brand new Hyundai SUV [with all the trimmings..] or an older quite possibly decrepit Mercedes.

Step carefully.[and wisely]

"RESPECT AND SYMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS OF FRANCE"

Norbert

I was just in a similar situation, except I was considering going in reverse - from a Petrof IV to the tallest upright of a similar quality (i.e., as per the old Petrof, not the new $72K for the 173 cm Petrof!) What I have found is that dealers like to only pay about 50% of what the piano is worth (or alternatively charge a 50% consignment fee), which would make me trade in a wonderful grand for an upright, and still fork over some cash! RIDICULOUS! (I "got rid" of my old Charles Walter console via a hurricane flood, where I got the proper replacement value back in cash ...)

I would suggest a private sale for your Schultze-Pollmann, and be willing to take about 20% off of what a dealer would charge. Of course to do this, you would need to be patient and have the ca$h hanging around.

As for the piano to get, I would recommend about a 5-10 year old piano so that you would get good value; such a piano should be about half-price off of a new one at the "street price", so you should probably look at a piano that has an MSRP of about $60K. You might be able to get that Mason & Hamlin grand.

If you are set at that price point and size for new, you will need to dig into the "consumer grade" to be able to meet it. I would say that at that level, brands such as Hailun, Perzina, Brodmann (not the artist series, which is premium) & Nordiska seem to do a good job. If you could relent to a rental return (i.e., 2 years of use), you might be able to get into the Knabe concert line, which is better level than those in the consumer grade, or the old stand-byes, Yahama & Kawai (i.e., the ones made in Japan).

Oh, and if you happen to come across a used Petrof II, you might find that to be an irresistible value.

Oh, and stay away from Steinway or its lower tier cousins Boston & Essex. OVERPRICED and the piano dealer's best friend.

Swampwiz,

I wouldn't get a new grand. I want a professional grade, so consumer grade new is out. I know it will be a second hand piano. I am ok with that!! :-)

You gave me a lot of things to ponder. I found a Mason and Hamlin up in Santa Ana (AA) for 25k or so... (I have looked at so many online, I may be totally off... but I think this was the price. They also have a lovely Petrof. When I got my SP, the other contender was a Petrof... hehe...

Thank you!!

neciebuggs? Interesting name!

Anyway, may I suggest that you go out randomly looking in dealerships and keep your eyes peeled. I recently, on a whim and quite randomly, as I was heading to a local store on unrelated business, suddenly, without provocation and for no particular reason whatsoever, had a "right turn Clyde" moment instead of going straight, where I proceeded to pull into a piano dealership parking lot, walked in, and within 2 minutes happened upon a very nice 1979 Yamaha C7D for $15,000 that the dealer had taken in just the day before on a trade towards a smaller Shigeru-Kawai. It was like the planets aligned :^) So I stood there, asking myself if I was in the market for a better piano? Hmmmmm, I guess so(!?), and with a little bit of a never look a gift horse in the mouth feeling and with it really catching my eye, I without hesitation plunked down a $1k deposit, left, then located a local PTG tech and had him check it over some days later for soundness, and with his blessings and suggestions, I threw a grand at him (LOL, I guess that was a pun) so he could file and voice the hammers and regulate the action. (*edit: I also had the same tech replace the keytops with new Yamaha "non-Ivorite" replacements, with the cost of the keytops, the removal of the old tops and installation of the new ones to be paid for by the dealership, as numerous original bass keys were chipped.) The inside of the case was cleaned and the outside polished by the dealership. The gentleman, whom I actually knew, but didn't know he was the manager of this particular store, even threw in an absolutely perfect and prestine condition used Jansen Artist Bench with polished gloss black spade legs, which matched the piano perfectly. Boom, 'deal, sold.

The result? I'm simply enamored with it, and in my humble opinion, simply blows away pianos that are reportedly 1 tier higher and easily costing 5 times more than what I paid for it.

Here's a link to the images I posted of it a while back:

My Yamaha C7D

You never know what you could "run into" when you're not really even trying, so try a little randomality because you never know! Best wishes with your quest :^)

Regards,
Andy =8^)

Thank you for your input! I tried a really nice Yamaha C6 today second hand... but we were still blown away with the Steinway B. Now to strategize. the next contender was an O. The store offered me full retail trade in on my Schultze Pullmann which I totally didn't expect... not many dealers here ever even heard of it. He totally appreciated the value, especially since it has full Renner action and artistic wood inlay.... So, that surprised me.

I have to crunch numbers... is it better for me to get the O, which was great.... and then trade up within 10 years to a B... or do I just blow may "wad" and get the B?

Of course the decision will take some doing.

We also saw some really nice Schimmel's... but the salesman rubbed us the wrong way. I absolutely want satin finish, and he told me they could buff out the high gloss, but it would cost extra in the end cheaper than ordering a new one. Funny, steinways with satin are 5-6k cheaper than high gloss, which makes the Schimmel more than the B. He fed us so many lies. It really amazes me when my significant other sits down and plays La Campanella to open up the piano... and knowing full well he's a professional pianist.... the salesman assumed we were dumb as dirt. Sorry, wouldn't patronize that store for piano coasters. Yikes... really??

I have to sit down and figure out if I want to wipe out my savings and jump for the B, or do the O and upgrade later... Do a HELOC, maintain the savings.... I don't want to finance with the piano company because they only offer 9.9% for 10 years... I could do a partial finance too... UGH! HAHA

We tried a ton of rebuilds and older models... and just totally disenchanted...

UGH... who knows what will happen.

To be continued... LMAO!

Oh, the Steinway includes a 5 night trip for 2 to NYC, accommodations and a factory tour... That would just be the icing on the cake! Seriously...

Love the beginning!! When I got my SP it was down to a Schimmel upright (out of price range), my SP 126, or a Petrof ... Took me about 6 months to figure it out.

neciebuggs:



Looks like things have changed:



If 'crunching' numbers, do you think it would make sense to look perhaps also at other pianos of higher, similar price range?

If yes, which ones?

Norbert

There was a Brodmann B copy I played at Hollywood Pianos in Burbank in your price range a couple months ago. It was killer.

Also check out the Hailun 218. It's my go-to recommendation for anyone in the $20-30k range.

In that case Living Pianos in Santa Ana is plenty close enough for him to stop by before or after work.

Absolutely! He already knows when he goes to fill out his paperwork that he needs to visit. And if there is anything remarkable we will drive up together at a later date. I have all next week off... So we may just take a ride up after he gets back from playing at the Clearwater Jazz Festival on Monday.

We looked at some new Schimmels, Boesendorfer ... honestly... be both still gravitate to the feel of the B. But as a realist.. I have concluded the only way I could make it work is if I got an O or an M first and traded up... OR get a decent younger B. I still liked the Yamaha C5... because of price... (one store has one for 16k, but said totally negotiable) If I got the Yamaha I would keep my SP so I would still have the European sound... I won't part with my SP if I get an Asian piano.