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I am looking for a grand piano, my first, and I'm hoping that the good people of this forum can help me out.

First, a little about myself and what I'm looking for. I played for approximately 10 years, but other than playing for a few minutes here and there on my mom's rebuilt Steinway B during visits, I haven't played in 20 years. I've missed it a great deal, and I want to start playing again. I'd also like to begin exposing my daughter to the piano, even though she's too young to start for a couple of years. It's sad how out of practice I've gotten, but I've been playing a number of pianos over the last couple of weeks, and it's coming back bit by bit - enough to figure out what I like and don't like.

My hard ceiling is $35k delivered, but I'd much prefer to stay close to $25k. I'm open to used pianos, but nearly all of the used pianos I've seen in that price range in my area are either low quality or fall predominantly into a few brands: Steinway, Boston, Mason & Hamlin, Yamaha, and Kawai. None of these that I've played have spoken to me. I could appreciate the quality of the Steinways, but the sound isn't what I'm looking for. The actions on the Yamahas and Kawais were too light. I did play a used Estonia 190 that had a great sound, but I wasn't a fan of the action on that particular piano.

On the new side, the options are a lot more limited. There are the Chinese-made pianos. My favorite of the ones I played was actually the Perzina, but hard to justify paying that much for it. I didn't get a chance to play the Hailun, but want to do so. There are the Yamahas and Kawais. My favorite of these was the RX-3, but for $32k, I feel like I should have been sold on it, and I wasn't.

I got a chance to play a couple of Schimmels, and I really liked them. They made me feel like a better player than I am. I loved the sound and the action. The Wilhelm Schimmel W180 is well within our price range and I thought it was a fantastic piano. I probably would have purchased it, but I made the mistake of playing the International series (I182T), which had similar tone and feel, but even greater clarity, sustain, and character. Too bad it's nearly $40k, which is well over our budget.

Now, I'm not sure what to do. I understand that in my price range, no matter what I get, there will always be a piano out there I like more. Should I go for the W180, which I know I would be happy with, or should I hold out hope for a used high end German piano that isn't too old and within my price range?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and input.



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If there are any piano technicians in your area with a regular clientele of nice grands, sometimes they have a client who needs to downsize.

I would try to talk to as many Piano Technicians in your market as possible to explore every option.


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Some indication of where, on the planet, you are located might be helpful.


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tludwig Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
If there are any piano technicians in your area with a regular clientele of nice grands, sometimes they have a client who needs to downsize.

I would try to talk to as many Piano Technicians in your market as possible to explore every option.


This is a great suggestion. Thank you. I'll start making some calls.


Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Some indication of where, on the planet, you are located might be helpful.


Good point. I'm located in Houston, Texas, USA.


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$32K for a Kawai RX-3 seems high. If it's new, it's sat around for a while... the GX series has been around for 2 years now.

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Originally Posted by tludwig
My hard ceiling is $35k delivered, but I'd much prefer to stay close to $25k. I'm open to used pianos, but nearly all of the used pianos I've seen in that price range in my area are either low quality or fall predominantly into a few brands: Steinway, Boston, Mason & Hamlin, Yamaha, and Kawai. None of these that I've played have spoken to me. I could appreciate the quality of the Steinways, but the sound isn't what I'm looking for. The actions on the Yamahas and Kawais were too light. I did play a used Estonia 190 that had a great sound, but I wasn't a fan of the action on that particular piano.

With a budget of up to $35K I would highly recommend playing a brand new Yamaha C3X. Yamaha made a lot of changes in 2012 and you may be pleasantly surprised. (or not wink )


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Have you looked amongst the pianos for sale on this site?


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Originally Posted by vancamp
$32K for a Kawai RX-3 seems high. If it's new, it's sat around for a while... the GX series has been around for 2 years now.


Good catch. I wrote both down in my notes, but it was the GX-3 that I played, which I understand is the successor to the RX-3.

Originally Posted by BrianDX
With a budget of up to $35K I would highly recommend playing a brand new Yamaha C3X. Yamaha made a lot of changes in 2012 and you may be pleasantly surprised. (or not wink )


I played a C2-X and was in fact pleasantly surprised by the sound. It was not as bright as I thought it would be based on what I read. I felt that the action was too light and almost mechanical (please forgive my terrible descriptions -- I don't know the best way to describe what I feel and hear). What intrigued me about the Yamahas was the potential for the SH silent system, which would allow me substantially more playing/practice time.

Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Have you looked amongst the pianos for sale on this site?


I have, but unless I'm doing it wrong, I only saw one grand piano for sale in the $15k - $35k price range in Texas.

Thanks everyone for the input.


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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Have you looked amongst the pianos for sale on this site?


Further to this point, I've limited my search to the Texas area because I'm unwilling to purchase a piano (new or used) unseen and unplayed even with a proper inspection by a tech. I'm traveling a great deal for work at the moment and adding to that travel would not work well with family obligations.

Is there a part of the country where the inventory of quality used pianos is higher? If so, I may be able to target that area if it lines up with my work travel.


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First, maybe you want found a piano in internet...

https://www.klaviano.com/

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Maybe worth a trip up here to Dallas to visit Collora piano. They are quite fair and have a great selection. At least give Phil a call at least to chat about your options.

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If you're in the Dallas area, you might want to talk to Bruno Santo of Concertpianos. He took good care of me. smile

Also I highly recommend the Hailun and Kawai. Hailun makes a new 7 footer that's always worth checking out in your price range.


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Originally Posted by tludwig
Is there a part of the country where the inventory of quality used pianos is higher? If so, I may be able to target that area if it lines up with my work travel.


Here in the Los Angeles area there are a lot of folks in the entertainment business, therefore a lot of piano companies:

Hollywood Piano
Past Perfect Piano
Knauer Piano
Keyboard Concepts
Living Pianos (Down South in Santa Ana)

Also the climate here is similar to yours, so it'll take less regulation and tuning after it gets there.



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My recommendation would be to look at a used Bösendorfer. I may be prejudiced because I've had one for 26 years. I love it more and more as the years go by! I bought it new in 1989 in Germany and moved it (by air) to the USA in 2000. I have participated in 3 master piano classes at Bösendorfer in Vienna, Austria and have been on their factory tours each time. They are hand built and are amazing! The people working there are fantastic.

There are several available on EBAY. Maybe you could find one in you're area.

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 11/19/15 07:07 PM.

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tludwig Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dhull100
Maybe worth a trip up here to Dallas to visit Collora piano. They are quite fair and have a great selection. At least give Phil a call at least to chat about your options.


Thanks for the recommendation. It's only a 3 hour drive and we have family in Dallas, so that could be a good option. I've looked at a couple of stores in Dallas, but not that one.

Originally Posted by Markarian
If you're in the Dallas area, you might want to talk to Bruno Santo of Concertpianos. He took good care of me. smile

Also I highly recommend the Hailun and Kawai. Hailun makes a new 7 footer that's always worth checking out in your price range.


Thanks for this recommendation as well. I intend to try out a couple of Hailuns tomorrow during lunch.

Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by tludwig
Is there a part of the country where the inventory of quality used pianos is higher? If so, I may be able to target that area if it lines up with my work travel.


Here in the Los Angeles area there are a lot of folks in the entertainment business, therefore a lot of piano companies:

Hollywood Piano
Past Perfect Piano
Knauer Piano
Keyboard Concepts
Living Pianos (Down South in Santa Ana)

Also the climate here is similar to yours, so it'll take less regulation and tuning after it gets there.


It does seem like most of the pianos up my alley are located in California, and that's a good point to keep in mind about the climate.

Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
My recommendation would be to look at a used Bösendorfer. I may be prejudiced because I've had one for 26 years. I love it more and more as the years go by! I bought it new in 1989 in Germany and moved it (by air) to the USA in 2000. I have participated in 3 master piano classes at Bösendorfer in Vienna, Austria and have been on their factory tours each time. They are hand built and are amazing! The people working there are fantastic.

There are several available on EBAY. Maybe you could find one in you're area.


You're reading my mind. I've been scouring around for a used Bösendorfer, but so far the few in my price range seem to be from the first half of the century and questionably "refurbished." I would travel to play one if I could find a good one in or around my price range.

I'm trying to be patient. It's hard not to pull the trigger on the really good option down the street from me and hold out for a potentially really great option out there.


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I played a couple of other pianos this afternoon.

I was impressed with the Hailun 178 I played, even though it was very noticeably out of tune. The action had a nice weight, but was very responsive. The sound seemed well balanced from top to bottom. I wanted a little more clarity from the base, but part of that was likely the lack of tuning.

I quickly forgot about the Hailun, however, when I played a used Grotrian the store is selling on consignment. I'm waiting on more information about it, but it looks like a Model 189 built in 1986. It looked and felt to be in great condition and it played beautifully. It had a sultry and rich sound but without sacrificing clarity. There was so much touch available in the action; I felt like I had so much control.

I played the Grotrian immediately after a slightly larger 1994 Bösendorfer sitting right next to it, and I significantly preferred the Grotrian. Much of this was likely due to my extreme rustiness. I felt like the Bösendorfer would be an extremely rewarding piano to play if I was more skilled and had more time with it. The Grotrian felt more naturally right off the bat and, between those two particular pianos, had a superior sound to my ear.

I'm pretty excited about this new option.

Last edited by tludwig; 11/21/15 01:03 AM.

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You might also look for some of the other less common German made pianos. For whatever reason, Texas had a following in Chickering in the '20's. My 145 started life in Texas in 1927. There may be some interesting rebuilds around.


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I am here in San Antonio, come and visit the Alamo City!


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Thank you all for the suggestions and advice. I've now played dozens of pianos in and out of my price range in multiple states, and I keep coming back to the same piano as being my favorite in my price range. The Schimmel I208T. The only two pianos that came close for me were a 30-year-old Grotrian 189 and a 30-year-old Seiler, both of which had exquisite sounds, but had issues. No other pianos even close to my price range made that connection with me at the bench like the Schimmel. The problem is that even the I208 is not really in my price range.

I was offered an incredible deal from an authorized dealer that would deliver the piano to me within approximately $1k of my absolute max budget (which is already $5k more than I really want to spend). Part of me feels like I should take the deal because it's so good and because I love the piano. That part of me feels like I should jump on it, but would I get buyer's remorse after dropping that kind of coin? Or I could buy a less expensive piano, but would I always be comparing it in my mind with the one that got away and never really appreciate the one I got?

I suppose there's a third option, which is to keep waiting for a used piano to come up in my area that I love, but the pickings are really slim, and the only great pianos I've found in my price range have had significant issues. A forum member kindly informed me of a 2001 Schimmel 213 fairly close by, which sounds like it could be right up my alley, even though it's a bubinga, which isn't my favorite.

I know this is a very personal decision, but I'm hoping some of you have been through the same difficult choice and can offer some thoughts that might help me figure this one out.

Last edited by tludwig; 11/24/15 11:09 PM.

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Originally Posted by gynnis
You might also look for some of the other less common German made pianos. For whatever reason, Texas had a following in Chickering in the '20's. My 145 started life in Texas in 1927. There may be some interesting rebuilds around.


This is definitely true! Tons of old Chickerings around here for sale. Unfortunately, I haven't found any that I liked.


Last edited by tludwig; 11/25/15 12:23 AM.

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