Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Original Steinway Ms from 60s -70s

Hi,

Looking at Steinway M models and there seem to be quite a few originals on the market from 60's and 70's that a lot of dealers sell somewhere around 25-30K.

Anything in particular to look out for in these models? Were these well built? Would the average one likely need major work soon?

Thanks,

Teflon in the actions.

seems quite expensive for an all original M......

It's too hard to generalise with one make and model, and it comes down to individual pianos - one could be full of inharmonicity for instance while the next one won't be.

Look up about the teflon. It's not something we on this side of the pond ever had to contend with, but there are many threads about it on here. It basically depends on the condition of the individual piano. I doubt I'd be willing to pay that much for one though.

No used M is worth more than $35K, regardless of the vintage. You're just edging into O and A territory there. I bought a fully restored L for $29K less than two years ago.

You don't mention what part of the country in which you're located, or even which country...

What are your performance expectations for the piano? How will it be used?

Agreed with the others, that if all original, the prices are insanely high, and these pianos (if NY production models, not Hamburg) are considered a historical low point in terms of quality level. In many parts of the country that get big seasonal changes in weather, temperature, and humidity, an all-original piano that's 40-55 years old can have significant problems, even if it wasn't played much. You would have to hire an independent technician to inspect it, in order to be sure.

thanks for the responses.

I am looking to move up from a Kawai upright to a medium size grand. I'd be looking to practice advanced repertoire on it a couple of hours per day.

I'm in Texas, a couple of hours away from Houston/San Antonio/Austin, so would need to look out of town. The other piano besides used/rebuilt Steinway M I am thinking about would be a used Schimmel. I tried a new Schimmel K series and thought it was fantastic, but don't have the 45K budget. I don't like Yamahas, and want to try something different from Kawai.

If you want to see what's available in the new market, try this tool:

http://www.pianobuyer.com/acoustic_database.html

I just tried it, putting in ebony finish pianos in sizes of 5'5" to 6'3", with SMP prices of 25-40k, then applied a discount to that price. There were many interesting examples in the $30k and under range.

If you're willing to look around through the classifieds:

http://www.pianobuyer.com/classifieds/

I plugged in the same size range, and just the state of Texas, and it returned 16 results, including (admittedly not the same as their current K series) a used Schimmel.

You might be able to find a nice used grand of considerable quality (perhaps only 10 years old) for these prices, if you're willing to "pound the pavement" and ask around.

Greetings,
Hold on to your wallet. Not only the ill-engineered Teflon, but the damper geometry, the action ratios, the Pratt-Read keys, etc. make this period of Steinway pianos a curious value. The vintage you are talking about represents the low point of Steinway action quality, but a surprisingly high percentage of responsive soundboards. If you know what to look for, you can end up with a fairly hot Steinway for $ 30,000.

I have found many pianos with serial numbers between 360,000 and 450,000 with absolutely horrid actions. These are characterized by hard, dead hammers, high ratios, totally whacko key leading, etc. However, if there is a chance to tune it, I can tell if the bellywork and bridges and pin block are up to snuff. If so, a mid-sixties M can usually be bought for $15,000, at most, and $10-12,000 as normal. Plan on $12,000 for the complete replacement of the action, from the pedal pivot to the damper heads. if your tech knows how to put together the right parts for your particular piano, (modern factory parts are NOT always the best, or even, an acceptable, option for many of their older pianos), you can end up with something that is nicer than what you find on the showroom floor.

You gotta have a tech on your side that is conversant with the brand. Skimping on technical guidance in the pursuit of buying an older Steinway piano is penny-wise,and that is all that it is!
Regards,

To add to Ed's excellent advice above. Some Steinway's can have a hardened V-bar in the top two sections of strings. This is where the capo d'astro bar is. The V-bar forms the string termination point on the plate. If the V-bar is hard, the tone is metallic, and false and the strings will fatigue sooner there than in the lower sections of strings which have brass agraffes. Some steinways have hard V-bars, never pay much for one that way.

I have done many Steinways from this era where I optimize the plate terminations. I replace the bridge caps and lay out the string lengths and spacings on the bridge to optimize speaking lengths and straighten string paths between tuning pin and hitch pin.

Replacing the action frame, hammers, shanks & flanges, damper underlever action, and key bushings are also needed to bring them up to full potential.

So; one has to buy one of these pianos for very little money or you end up having a piano that you invested more into it than you can sell it for. But it will perform better and last longer than a brand new one.

And of course if you buy a new one you will also have invested more than you can sell it for, but the first way results in a superb and sublime piano and at a reduced total cost.

I do find I can take a Baldwin M or R from the 1945 to 1969 era and trick them out to beat a similarly tricked out Steinway S or M. The Baldwin designs for these two models is better, especially in the treble. The Steinway plates are more flexible in the capo bar than the Baldwins and this reduces the treble clarity.

That said, the Steinway M can be nice to play when working really well.