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Topic Options
#2508303 - 02/07/16 07:11 PM VPC1 or MP11: Redux
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these, since my Schulze-Pollmann upright shares the same room as my wife's office -- and she's working all the time.

I can't get an audition of the VPC1 around here. The local dealer said he's stopped stocking the VPC1 because customers aren't interested in the complexity of the virtual instrument setup.

I played the MP11 yesterday. Or tried to. There was a guy in the shop who wouldn't stop playing seventies and eighties schmaltz pop at full volume and it was too loud to hear the MP11 even with headphones.

My top priority is the action. I thought the MP11 was very playable. Perhaps the keys felt like they could use a bit more mass for my taste, and I couldn't decide if the lack of "character" was a good thing or a bad thing. It's highly subjective, since I'm biased knowing I'm playing a digital. The same action in a Steinway case, I might rate as superb and extremely uniform. I need more time to decide.

I prefer the idea of the VPC1, since I would almost never use the built-in features of the MP11. I'm a sort-of entry-level advanced classical player and often get up on the keys; I'm nervous about the shorter length of the VPC1 keysticks.

Like others have said, what I really would love is a VPC2 with the Grand Feel II action, but I know that isn't going to happen. I've read every review and discussion I can find of the two keyboards, but haven't seen much in-depth analysis of the action of the VPC1 keyboard compared to an acoustic grand.

Realistically, money isn't really the main consideration here, so the MP11 is probably the safest bet. Still, I'd be grateful for any comments from VPC1 users.

-Henry

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#2508305 - 02/07/16 07:20 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 13666
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
When I owned a VPC1, I felt the action was identical to my Petrof, which is a very heavy Renner action (but not impossible to play). Then I traded in for the MP11. It's a bit lighter feeling due to the key length, but both actions feel great and I'm sure you'd get accustomed to either one.

If you are comfortable with using software piano sounds, then the VPC1 is an excellent instrument and you'll be able to play advanced classical piano on it with no problems. If you think you will want to have on-board sounds, and/or use your DP as a MIDI controller for other instruments as well (with a need for the Mod wheel) then the MP11 is the one you want.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2508311 - 02/07/16 07:38 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11571
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Henry,

Morodiene's post highlights the main differences between these two models, from someone with experience of both.

Just out of curiosity, may I ask where you are based?
It is a little discouraging to hear the dealer's reluctance to stock the VPC1, however I appreciate that the majority of purchases will be made online.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2508339 - 02/07/16 09:19 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Thanks for the replies. James, you have a PM with the information you requested.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said elsewhere. The simplicity and elegance of the VPC1 are very appealing. But the benefit of the Grand Feel II action, even if more theoretical than practical, is compelling and that would probably sway me toward the MP11 in the end.

I have to think about this a bit because I live in a small house and I need to find a place to put a new keyboard.

FWIW, I bought a P90 about twelve years ago but ended up selling it because, honestly, the action hurt my fingers. Not that this needs to be said, but the MP11 keyboard is light years ahead of the P90.

-Henry

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#2508355 - 02/07/16 10:55 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 694
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I'm in Toronto and no dealer would stock a VPC1 to try. When requesting any info on one, any employee would redirect me to the MP11, CA67, or CA97.

Had no choice but to order one. If I dislike it, I'll return it.
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2508411 - 02/08/16 08:23 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
propianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 145
Loc: England
Sam Ash in 34th Street, New York had both VPC1 and MP11 on demo on shop floor last time I went in there.
VPC1 uses RM3 Grand II action, which is also used in kawai CA17 model, so maybe if you can find a CA17 and play it with the power switched off, that would give you an idea of the VPC1...
Likewise the CA65 and CA95 have the same Grand Feel action of MP11, if you happen to find either of those.
Basically, MP11 covers everything the VPC1 can do anyway, but with many extra useful features too, so it's the wisest choice of the two, although the minimialist clean look of VPC1 and slightly lower price is very tempting!

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#2508491 - 02/08/16 02:29 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
DeskDesign Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 33
Hi Henry

I was more or less in the same boat as you.

Two times I visited our local piano shop. They had the MP11 but didn't stock the VPC1. However they did have another Kawai on display with the RM3grand2 action (same as VPC1) so that did the job just fine.

The first time that I demoed the instruments side by side I was totally biased, thinking that the MP11 would be so much better merely because of it being the latest and lighter key action. Also the grain of the black keys - that genuine ebony veneer feeling - added a nice touch.

The second time however, my gut feeling and personal taste won the argument: they preferred the more realistic VPC1 action. Yes I said it; more realistic. And what pushed me over the edge was the fact that there was a Yamaha Avantgrand sitting a couple of meters away from the MP11. Now the Avantgrand - a digital hybrid piano - has a *real* piano action with full sized hammers, 100% keylengths (much longer than the GF2!), true mechanics etc. And you know what ... it's action was even heavier than the VPC1.

The thing is; you don't realize how heavy the action is on an acoustic piano because you hear the sound; and that somehow clouds the experience. But the Avantgrand was switched off, so there was no sound, and my senses were only given the feel of the keybed, which came much, much closer to a VPC1. This made me realize that most real piano's have a pretty heavy action. My upright at home for example; same story. Also, I became a little bothered with the rather artificial grain feeling of the black keys on the MP11. It was no game changer on its own, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't a 'pro' any longer. (This ebony structure grain is more subtle / neutral on the VPC1.)

A final note is that I owned an MP8 for 8 years before switching to the VPC1. Both of these actions are quite similar, so I might have chosen the VPC1 also for familiarity reasons.

All in all, there's good and lesser things to be said about both MP11 and VPC1. And we are talking about details here. Except for the built-in sounds of the MP11 versus the naked VPC1, the differences are rather small.

One more thing; don't be bothered much with the key length; there isn't really that much of a difference (1"?). In the end it's how you respond to the feel of the keyboard, so don't let your mind get in the way of that gut feeling, thinking that a longer key automatically is better.

Hope this was helpful to you!
Let us know what you end up choosing :-)

Emanuel


Edited by DeskDesign (02/08/16 05:27 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification & typo

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#2508506 - 02/08/16 04:15 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: DeskDesign]
pianistje Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/14/15
Posts: 17
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By DeskDesign

A final note is that I owned an MP8 for 8 years before switching to the VPC1. Both of these actions are quite similar, so I might have chosen the VPC1 also for familiarity.
Emanuel

Great ! I still use an MP8, because i personally thought the MP8/2 and MP10 played worse than the MP8 !
Now i have played all the latest and greatest Kawai's, but not at home after really adjusting to the new feel......you have !

Do you think the VPC1 is better than the MP8 ? I know fast repetitions are much easier, but apart from that....do you feel you are playing a better keybed ?

Thanks......


Edited by pianistje (02/08/16 04:16 PM)

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#2508528 - 02/08/16 05:21 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: pianistje]
DeskDesign Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By pianistje

Do you think the VPC1 is better than the MP8 ? I know fast repetitions are much easier, but apart from that....do you feel you are playing a better keybed ?


Yes, as a matter of fact I do.
The VPC1 is superior tot the MP8 in my opinion.
It feels more crisp and fresh, and not only because it's brand new.
The old AWA action felt a bit lazy in comparison.

One thing the MP8 didn't have is the 'let off'; a nice addition to the action especially when playing softly.

The VPC1 inspires me more then the MP8, partly because it's so humble in design, partly because the keybed indeed feels superior / more realistic to me.

On the down side, the key spacing on the VPC1 isn't that disciplined. The keys were more evenly spaced on the MP8. There seems to be a wider/smaller gap between some of the white notes. Talking 10ths of a millimeter here, nothing serious really, but it is noticeable.

A detail; when switching on the MP8, it would send a "midivolume=0" to my sequencer. Pretty annoying when this would happen mid session! The VPC1 is clean in that regard + I also feel the MIDI is cleaner and more refined (just a feeling though, can't proof this.)

Groeten ;-)
Emanuel


Edited by DeskDesign (02/08/16 06:04 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification & typo

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#2508553 - 02/08/16 07:10 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Hi, Emanuel. Yes, in the brief time I played the MP11, the one thing that worried me was that the action felt just a bit too light. Also, I could stand a bit more pronounced escapement feel. Obviously I don't want to end up getting spoiled by the digital action and then having troubles playing on a real acoustic piano. Just eyeballing photos I've seen, it looks like the pivot distance on my upright is about mid-way between that of the VPC1 and the MP11. As best as I can tell, there is no real difference in the quality of construction of the two keyboards.

There are only two Kawai dealers in my area and neither has an instrument on the floor with the RM3 action. I'm not worried about playing on a heavier action, and might even prefer it. I just don't want to end up annoyed because the key force is too high when I'm playing up within an inch of the back end of the keys. Do you notice the change when you play?

Watching videos of serious people playing serious music on the VPC1, I have to assume it's not an issue. But I hesitate to take the plunge without trying it first.

-Henry

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#2508601 - 02/08/16 10:58 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
DeskDesign Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By Henry Pasternack
I'm not worried about playing on a heavier action, and might even prefer it. I just don't want to end up annoyed because the key force is too high when I'm playing up within an inch of the back end of the keys. Do you notice the change when you play?


I'm not used to playing/using that particular area of the keyboard. And in no way am I a professional pianist. So all I can say is that there is a difference playing higher up / deeper in on the key, albeit nothing drastic. (PS. I didn't compare this with the MP11 / GF2).


Edited by DeskDesign (02/08/16 10:59 PM)

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#2508610 - 02/09/16 12:10 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 694
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By Henry Pasternack
Hi, Emanuel. Yes, in the brief time I played the MP11, the one thing that worried me was that the action felt just a bit too light. Also, I could stand a bit more pronounced escapement feel. Obviously I don't want to end up getting spoiled by the digital action and then having troubles playing on a real acoustic piano. Just eyeballing photos I've seen, it looks like the pivot distance on my upright is about mid-way between that of the VPC1 and the MP11. As best as I can tell, there is no real difference in the quality of construction of the two keyboards.

There are only two Kawai dealers in my area and neither has an instrument on the floor with the RM3 action. I'm not worried about playing on a heavier action, and might even prefer it. I just don't want to end up annoyed because the key force is too high when I'm playing up within an inch of the back end of the keys. Do you notice the change when you play?

Watching videos of serious people playing serious music on the VPC1, I have to assume it's not an issue. But I hesitate to take the plunge without trying it first.

-Henry

You're making this overly complicated. You could ask a thousand questions and you still wouldn't know exactly if you would love/hate it.

Just buy it and return it if you don't bond with it. Simple and to the point.
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2508614 - 02/09/16 12:44 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Bachus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 302
There is more to it... then just the feel..

I would allways choose the MP11, because it has some knobs on it that can be used to controll parameters in pianoteq, and it has build in sounds, if you just want to sit down quickly and play witouth booting the computer...

Both actions are top knotch and probable better then anything else out there.. and the difference is quite small for anyone not training to be a concert pianist.. Both work very convincing to me, and the fact tha6t your preferred the MP11 at first galnce, should tell you enough...

So you probably should be asking you a different Question, is the MP11 worth the extra money, and extra weight..
_________________________
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get. Make sure to enjoy every one of them, because that flavour might never return.

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#2508618 - 02/09/16 01:22 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: DeskDesign]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11571
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Emanuel,

Regarding this point:

Originally Posted By DeskDesign
Also the grain of the [MP11's] black keys - that genuine ebony veneer feeling - added a nice touch.


Please note that neither the MP11 nor the VPC1 feature ebony veneer/texture on the black keys. The white keys do however utilise the 'Ivory Touch' key surface.

The 'Ebony Touch' black key surface is a feature of the 'Grand Feel II' keyboard action, which is currently only available on the CA97 and CA67 models.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2508666 - 02/09/16 07:32 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Kawai James]
DeskDesign Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By Kawai James
Please note that neither the MP11 nor the VPC1 feature ebony veneer/texture on the black keys. The white keys do however utilise the 'Ivory Touch' key surface.


Oops .. Ok James, thanks for straightening this out!
I do remember playing a kawai with that ebony touch though, it probably was the CA97.

Best regards
Emanuel

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#2508677 - 02/09/16 08:52 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
mezzopiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/15/15
Posts: 13
I was in the very same situation as yours, deciding between the MP11 and VPC1.

I played them both at the store side by side, comparing them for 9 hours in total.
I came back home confused as to which one I should get, because they are both awesome. The VPC1 being a little too hard for me and the MP11 a bit too soft.

I do think however that the difference in key action between them is not so subtle. I didn't want to get tired too soon from the VPC1 and didn't want to lose control over the pianissimo range on the MP11 (being too light).

After consulting in this forum, I decided to go with the MP11 (ordered it!!! should arrive soon...), because it felt so wonderful and soft. I really could connect to it and never stop playing. I guess it's a very personal thing that you must feel before you go ahead and purchase.

In addition, while I am originally a classical pianist, I also want to start exploring the digital world (after finally deciding to get a digital piano for the first time) so the sounds and features of the MP11 board are an advantage for me.

I think that for a pianist it's not about the sleek design of the VPC1 vs. the digital features of the MP11. It's much more about the action that suits you more, and of course about the difference in price...

good luck!

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#2508687 - 02/09/16 09:36 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Strat]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Originally Posted By Strat

You're making this overly complicated. You could ask a thousand questions and you still wouldn't know exactly if you would love/hate it.

Just buy it and return it if you don't bond with it. Simple and to the point.


Interesting point. I spent weeks shopping for my acoustic before I settled on the Schulze-Pollmann. Buying an acoustic sight-unseen, (or is that sound-unheard, or feel-unfelt?) would be out of the question. So it seems weird just to order a digital without ever trying it.

My wife is really into the buy-it, return-it thing. She has no problem taking stuff back. I know the world of shopping has changed as everything goes online and returns are accounted for by the retailers. But I'm still uncomfortable with returning things, especially something as big and heavy as a keyboard.

I guess if the brick-and-mortar stores expect you to make major purchases without seeing the product in person, they should be satisfied if you come back and say you don't like it.

-Henry


Edited by Henry Pasternack (02/09/16 09:36 AM)

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#2508698 - 02/09/16 10:38 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
propianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 145
Loc: England
Why not order BOTH the MP11 and VPC1 and try 'em out in your home for a few days side by side and just return the one you don't like?
That way you'll know for sure, and the dealer is guaranteed a sale either way.

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#2508871 - 02/09/16 07:05 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: mezzopiano]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11571
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By mezzopiano
I was in the very same situation as yours, deciding between the MP11 and VPC1...


Very interesting, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2508937 - 02/10/16 12:58 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 694
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By Henry Pasternack
Interesting point. I spent weeks shopping for my acoustic before I settled on the Schulze-Pollmann. Buying an acoustic sight-unseen, (or is that sound-unheard, or feel-unfelt?) would be out of the question. So it seems weird just to order a digital without ever trying it.

It's not weird at all. These are very expensive devices and there needs to be some sort of bond if you're planning on using it regularly for many MANY years. Anything can happen, especially with the VPC1 which is rather unique ; you could find yourself being overwhelmed by the digital setup and tired of needing to configure it to work, you might prefer the action of another keybed, miss the elegance of having housed-in speakers, miss not having a wheel, etc.

Pay with a credit card, keep your bill, and you can return it if it's in the same condition it was in when first unpacked. That's what I might be doing, depending on what the verdict will be once I start playing a VPC1 in about 6-8 weeks when my dealer will finally get one.

I *could* have gotten the MP11 right then and there but it was 1100$ more expensive plus 13% tax, so I figured I'd order the VPC1, test it out in-depth, and see if I bond with it. If not, I'll return it and might get an MP11 instead. I wouldn't be happy about spending more money but it's still a LOT better than remaining unhappy with an instrument you'd begrudgingly play for years and not enjoy.
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2508984 - 02/10/16 06:43 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
I went to the store again and played the CA97 and the MP11 last night, this time without having to listen to Styx and Barry Manilow blaring in my ear. It was cold outside and cold in the store and it took me a long time to warm up and get used to the actions. It may have been subjective; I felt the CA97 was just a touch sluggish compared to the MP11, or maybe that was due to my cold fingers. Anyway, by the end of the session, I thought the MP11 action was fine and I could make music on it, not just noise.

I didn't like the built-in speakers on the CA97 at all, at least the way it was sitting, backed right up against the rear of another instrument. The MP11, with headphones, was better but the phones were the cheapest imaginable. Being an audiophile snob, I would probably invest in a pair of high-end studio monitors.

I'm not too worried about the complexity of hooking up a VST system, but there's really no downside to the MP11 for my purposes except the minor irritation of having features I would never use. I did try toodling on the RM3 Grand key demo mechanism they had there and thought the difference in effort compared to the GF was significant. So if I buy a keyboard, it will probably be the MP11.

What I need to spend time thinking about is whether I really NEED a keyboard versus WANT a toy. The MP11 is an amazing device, but having four expensive motorcycles in the garage I know from experience that sometimes when you're in a long-term relationship with a mechanical friend, bringing more friends into the mix just divides loyalties and makes things more complicated.

-Henry


Edited by Henry Pasternack (02/10/16 10:40 AM)

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#2509015 - 02/10/16 09:26 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 694
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I take it you believe the MP11's action to be softer than the CA97's? I believe the CA97 is designed to be pushed against a wall which might account for how it sounded (i.e. not so great).

The VST point was merely a possible reason why a customer might return a VPC1.

In any case, buy it, spend some serious time with it, and then either return or keep it. In the end, that's what any of us should do.
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2509018 - 02/10/16 10:07 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Strat]
newbert Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 809
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By Strat
I take it you believe the MP11's action to be softer than the CA97's? I believe the CA97 is designed to be pushed against a wall which might account for how it sounded (i.e. not so great).

The VST point was merely a possible reason why a customer might return a VPC1.

In any case, buy it, spend some serious time with it, and then either return or keep it
. In the end, that's what any of us should do.


FWIW, I couldn't find anyplace within 200 miles of here that had a VPC1 on the floor for me to try. So, I decided to just order one sight-unseen and untried from an online vendor with a good return policy. (I already had Pianoteq software.)

It turns out that I loved it.

Now, the only "negative" is that I'm constantly tempted to purchase one VST after another. blush (I've already purchased three....)
_________________________
Bert



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#2509093 - 02/10/16 01:02 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Strat]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Originally Posted By Strat
I take it you believe the MP11's action to be softer than the CA97's? I believe the CA97 is designed to be pushed against a wall which might account for how it sounded (i.e. not so great).

The VST point was merely a possible reason why a customer might return a VPC1.

In any case, buy it, spend some serious time with it, and then either return or keep it. In the end, that's what any of us should do.


The CA97 and the MP11 seemed to have the same keyboard dynamics, except that the CA97 felt as though the key rebound was ever so slightly more damped. But my fingers were really stiff from the chill and humidity, so everything felt sluggish. The only significant difference I noticed between the two was the graining on the black keys of the CA97; and I preferred the smoother finish on the MP11. I understand the weighting on the GF II keyboard (CA97) has been changed, so maybe that was it. Either way, whatever difference there is between the two is way, way down in the noise.

I getcha about trying and returning. As I said, I like to do business with real brick-and-mortar stores when possible. Since the local dealer told me there isn't enough demand for it to be worth his while to stock the VPC1, it doesn't seem fair to ask him to order me one if I think there is any chance I will return it; because then he will be stuck not only with a VPC1 he didn't want, but an open-box unit as well.

I don't feel any loyalty to mail-order outfits, so try-and-return is a possibility, I guess. But if I try-and-keep, then the local store loses my business. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I may be in a minority when it comes to trying to help local retailers stay in business.

-Henry


Edited by Henry Pasternack (02/10/16 01:03 PM)

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#2509129 - 02/10/16 02:26 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
hughconway Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/15
Posts: 79
Do you need the space saving feature/portability of a slab piano such as the VPC1 as I found that the fact that it doesn't look like a piano clouds my whole experience of playing it.

I ended up going for the CS10 (which is a CA95 in a proper upright piano case) which has the GF keybed and it is just amazing.

I compared with the NU1 and CP585 from Yamaha (didn't like the sound of either) and also against the CA97 from Kawai and felt that sitting at a proper piano case was the most compelling factor in feeling that I was playing a real instrument rather than the GF2 keybed and newer samples of the CA97.

This made the CS10 an easy choice.

Just a thought if you don't need to save space...


Edited by hughconway (02/10/16 02:28 PM)

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#2509170 - 02/10/16 04:14 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: hughconway]
kanefsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 71
Originally Posted By hughconway
Do you need the space saving feature/portability of a slab piano such as the VPC1 as I found that the fact that it doesn't look like a piano clouds my whole experience of playing it.

I ended up going for the CS10 (which is a CA95 in a proper upright piano case) which has the GF keybed and it is just amazing.


I actually have the opposite reaction. I strongly prefer the look of a minimal, functional design over something that looks like a fake acoustic piano. It's like the Uncanny Valley hypothesis applied to pianos smile

--
Steve

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#2509195 - 02/10/16 05:01 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: hughconway]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Originally Posted By hughconway
Do you need the space saving feature/portability of a slab piano such as the VPC1 as I found that the fact that it doesn't look like a piano clouds my whole experience of playing it.

I ended up going for the CS10 (which is a CA95 in a proper upright piano case) which has the GF keybed and it is just amazing.

I compared with the NU1 and CP585 from Yamaha (didn't like the sound of either) and also against the CA97 from Kawai and felt that sitting at a proper piano case was the most compelling factor in feeling that I was playing a real instrument rather than the GF2 keybed and newer samples of the CA97.

This made the CS10 an easy choice.

Just a thought if you don't need to save space...


Yes, I saw the CS10 yesterday. It looked nice. I'm not too keen on the cheapish looking cases most of the standard floor-standers come in. I can get over not playing a real piano, though. I give the Kawai stage pianos high marks for their industrial-grade finish.

-Henry

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#2509230 - 02/10/16 06:50 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11571
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By Henry Pasternack
I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I may be in a minority when it comes to trying to help local retailers stay in business.


This is a very commendable attitude!
My father runs a piano shop, so I'm naturally inclined to recommend customers purchase from their local independent dealer wherever possible.

Regarding, the dealer's comments about the VPC1, it's unfortunate, however I can appreciate their stance on the matter. The VPC1 is a specialist product that appeals to a relatively small (albeit growing) niche of piano players. Such players are arguably more likely to purchase online than visit their local dealer, who may also struggle to make any profit on an aggressively-priced product.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2509235 - 02/10/16 07:02 PM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Mental Nomad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By Henry Pasternack
I didn't like the built-in speakers on the CA97 at all, at least the way it was sitting, backed right up against the rear of another instrument. The MP11, with headphones, was better but the phones were the cheapest imaginable. Being an audiophile snob, I would probably invest in a pair of high-end studio monitors.


If you're going to use studio monitors or quality headphones, then you might consider the CA67. It has the exact same action and piano engine as the CA97 - the price difference is in the speakers & soundboard (and a couple of extra non-piano sounds you'll probably never use). You can put that money towards your monitors. And, unlike an MP11, you won't need to buy a stand for it, and it looks more like a piano/furniture (if that's an asset for you.)

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#2509319 - 02/11/16 12:22 AM Re: VPC1 or MP11: Redux [Re: Henry Pasternack]
Henry Pasternack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 39
Indeed, but no. I have to join Steve (kanefsky). I love the built-to-purpose look of the stage pianos. The CS10 is nice, too, because it looks like a piano, but in the end that's a whole lot of beautifully-painted MDF that looks great but doesn't contribute much to the function of the instrument. If I do this, I'm gonna get me a mean K&M Omega stand and pretend I'm a rock star, LOL.

-Henry

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