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#2508721 - Today at 11:21 AM Reblitz vs Igrec on Backcheck and Rep Sprin regulation specs
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 840
Loc: canada
On backcheck checking distance Reblitz at p. 187:

Each hammer should check exactly 5/8" (16mm.) from the strings (rack).

Igrec at p. 174:

Typically, backchecking is adjusted between 1/2 and 5/8 (12 to 15 mm.) from the strings.

I'm curious: why does Reblitz tell say "exactly" 16 mm.? I'm guessing that Igrec's view is closer to the "modern" and more "nuanced" approach to regulating the backcheck?

On repetition spring tension:

Reblitz at p. 188:

Play each key so the hammer checks. Then let the key come up just a little, and immediately push it all the way down again, releasing the hammer from the backcheck and permitting the hammer to rise slowly but positively to the drop position .....

Igrec at p. 175:

the hammer should swing up in a decisive, quick, but not jerky motion,....

There seems to be a real discrepancy here. Which is it? "Decisive and quick" or "slowly but positively"?

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#2508737 - Today at 12:29 PM Re: Reblitz vs Igrec on Backcheck and Rep Sprin regulation specs [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Gerry Johnston Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 141
Loc: Haverhill, MA
I've often said that if you ask 10 piano technicians a question, you'll get at least 12 conflicting answers. Reblitz and Igrec are simply reflective of the fact that this is very much "signature" work. There is plenty of room for personal approaches and preferences which will still fall within a range that would be regarded as generally acceptable.

Read any of the threads about tuning on this forum to confirm just how varied opinions and approaches can be. The same variety of opinions exists with regard to regulation - though the arguments seldom seem to become as heated.
_________________________
Gerry Johnston, Registered Piano Technician
Haverhill, MA
(978) 372-2250
www.gjpianotuner.com

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#2508852 - 16 minutes 42 seconds ago Re: Reblitz vs Igrec on Backcheck and Rep Sprin regulation specs [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Tunewerk Online   blank
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 576
Loc: Boston, MA
Igrec's book generally contains more updated information concerning specs for new parts, and regulation details that have been discovered since the time of the Reblitz publication.

Checking distance between 12 and 15mm is more correct. There is a range depending on the parts, wear and what choices the action regulator has decided upon for performance.

Hammer rise from the check position is ideally a firm, continuous rise.. but this is dependent upon hammer/rep centers being at the right friction, and spring slots being cleaned and re-lubricated if present.

You will get different answers from every tech, but some are more inclusive and correct than others. Sometimes, both people are right, and they are describing the same nuance from different directions. In the end, a spec is only a number derived from a deeper understanding of the engineering and operational parameters involved. A spec alone says nothing.

Checking is not so sensitive a parameter.. how the checking engages is more critical. A firm rise is critical because a wide range of dynamics/timing can create a collapse of the rep mechanism which is very frustrating to musicians.

Higher checking generally results in faster repetition, but not always. Higher checking also results in a firmer-feeling action, which is not desirable to many.

Checking angle and installation height, hammer bore and tail curvature/length are the parameters linked to ideal checking height. There is a point delineated by the curvature of the hammer tail and arcs involved that can be found accurately, by feel.
_________________________
www.tunewerk.com

Unity of tone through applied research.

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#2508855 - 8 minutes 3 seconds ago Re: Reblitz vs Igrec on Backcheck and Rep Sprin regulation specs [Re: Tunewerk]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1311
Loc: Québec, Canada
Originally Posted By Tunewerk
Igrec's book generally contains more updated information concerning specs for new parts, and regulation details that have been discovered since the time of the Reblitz publication.

Checking distance between 12 and 15mm is more correct. There is a range depending on the parts, wear and what choices the action regulator has decided upon for performance.

Hammer rise from the check position is ideally a firm, continuous rise.. but this is dependent upon hammer/rep centers being at the right friction, and spring slots being cleaned and re-lubricated if present.

You will get different answers from every tech, but some are more inclusive and correct than others. Sometimes, both people are right, and they are describing the same nuance from different directions. In the end, a spec is only a number derived from a deeper understanding of the engineering and operational parameters involved. A spec alone says nothing.

Checking is not so sensitive a parameter.. how the checking engages is more critical. A firm rise is critical because a wide range of dynamics/timing can create a collapse of the rep mechanism which is very frustrating to musicians.

Higher checking generally results in faster repetition, but not always. Higher checking also results in a firmer-feeling action, which is not desirable to many.

Checking angle and installation height, hammer bore and tail curvature/length are the parameters linked to ideal checking height. There is a point delineated by the curvature of the hammer tail and arcs involved that can be found accurately, by feel.


Very well written!!! +1
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2508856 - 5 minutes 42 seconds ago Re: Reblitz vs Igrec on Backcheck and Rep Sprin regulation specs [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Bosendorff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 497
What Gerry said - it's indeed a matter of taste. Regulation will vary depending on the piano and preferences of the pianist.

I like a light and responsive touch on my piano, so I prefer quite less than what is mentioned for backchecking and weak springs (adjusted to rise slowly/gently).

If it's your own piano, experiment and see for yourself what you prefer. Set (or ask your technician to set) one octave a certain way, another differently, etc. Then practice similar patterns on them for a while. You will feel the difference while playing.

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