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#2509530 - 02/11/16 04:34 PM CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences?
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 695
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Some background. Ordered a VPC1 through a dealer but I got confirmation today that it'd take 3-4 *months* to get it so I'm expanding my search to include the MP11 and CA67.

I'll be using Ivory II with it.

What are the differences, touch-wise? Kawai's website states the CA67 has the better action, but what are your thoughts on that? True or not?

Don't be afraid to go into detail.


Edited by Strat (02/11/16 04:42 PM)
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2509584 - 02/11/16 07:19 PM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11659
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Strat,

I recall a previous post in which your local dealer quoted a 6-8 week lead time to receive a VPC1, so I'm a little surprised that this has now been increased to 3-4 months. You do not state which dealer is handling your order, however if you have not done so already, I would be inclined to give Merriam Music a call - I gather that they are one of the best piano dealers in Toronto, and list the VPC1 on their website.

Regarding your query, let me begin by saying that assessing action quality is highly subjective. However generally speaking, in terms of realism, I would rate the actions in the following order: 'RM3 Grand II' (VPC1), 'Grand Feel' (MP11), 'Grand Feel II' (CA67). This topic is currently being discussed in another thread, however those who have played 'RM3 Grand II' vs 'Grand Feel' believe the longer pivot length of the latter action contributes to a slightly lighter key touch that some players prefer.

'Grand Feel' vs 'Grand Feel II' is perhaps a little harder to judge as the key pivot lengths are identical. However, I believe the latest 'Grand Feel II' action is the more realistic, thanks to the Ebony Touch key surfaces, graded counterweights, improved hammer shape, and optimised note-on timing. I outlined the main differences between these two actions in this post.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2509624 - 02/11/16 10:53 PM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
kanadajin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/14
Posts: 36
Hi Strat,

I am well aware of the CAD/USD exchange rate issue, but I am wondering about the (non) option you mentioned earlier of purchasing a VPC-1 across the border and bringing it back across through CDN customs. Would this still happen to be less $$$ than an MP11 at your local dealer at this time? Presumably, the local price on the MP11 would also suffer from the exchange rate. You also would be paying the HST either way.

To try to answer your subject query, I have not tried a CA67 but do own an MP11. I have played on the MP10, CA63, CA65, CA95 and a few others from Kawai. In other words, I did compare the RM3 vs GF action, but have no experience with GF2. I know this does not answer your question directly, but as stated by Kawai James and others, the touch is definitely a little lighter on the GF (MP11) and I also think that this action also felt just a little more refined, for lack of a better word if this makes any sense. Do not get me wrong, both of those actions were a joy to play (for me) in their own way, and given the difference in key weight between them it was easy to tell right off the bat which one was which just by the feeling on the fingers This being said, I do get the impression that the differences between the GF (MP11) and GF2 (CA67) would be a lot more subtle than from RM3 to GF, likely making them more of a challenge to distinguish through feel alone.

This is all very subjective and your appreciation would be influenced no doubt by your previous keyboard experience.

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#2509627 - 02/11/16 11:06 PM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 695
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Unfortunately, the calculations bring me to slightly over 2900$ and that is without shipping and duty fees. So I'd realistically belooking at 3200$ or more.

Over here, it sells for 2655$ taxes included.. As you can see, the difference is staggering.

Since I will be playing exclusively with VSTs, I logically gravitated towards the VPC1, but I don't believe in chasing after something especially at the expensive cost (IMHO) these devices sell for. Perhaps it's not meant to be and I should instead pay more attention to Roland and Yamaha.

I've got some time on the weekend that I would have preferred to use to play but it looks like I can use it to peruse other models and see if anything strikes my fancy that wouldn't require waiting time or paying exorbitant amounts of money to obtain in a reasonable amount of time.

It's disappointing but in the end, life is short and I can't justify losing weeks and months of playing time due to some executive's bungling of the manufacturing production of this model.


Edited by Strat (02/11/16 11:14 PM)
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2509745 - 02/12/16 09:09 AM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 13734
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Strat

It's disappointing but in the end, life is short and I can't justify losing weeks and months of playing time due to some executive's bungling of the manufacturing production of this model.


Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? The VPC1 is a niche market among niche markets (DPs). I know we are accustomed to wanting something, and being able to buy it and get it right away, but the reality is, that's not always possible. There are people in other parts of the world who have to wait months for things.

Do you not have an instrument at all right now?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2509749 - 02/12/16 09:24 AM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
kanadajin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/14
Posts: 36
Strat, you have mail.

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#2509754 - 02/12/16 09:43 AM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Morodiene]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 695
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By Morodiene
Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? The VPC1 is a niche market among niche markets (DPs). I know we are accustomed to wanting something, and being able to buy it and get it right away, but the reality is, that's not always possible. There are people in other parts of the world who have to wait months for things.

Do you not have an instrument at all right now?

Not harsh AT ALL! The product has been on the market for 2 years and these guys can't get their act together to account for the demand that apparently has been on a steady rise since its introduction. Every dealer I spoke to told me the same thing ; plenty of demand, no supply. That is Kawai's responsibility. The fault lies with them and I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

I can understand when a product has just been released, how it might be much harder to get a hold of. This isn't the case right now. It's just poor planning on their part and I have not been impressed with the situation.

No, I sold my piano foolishly thinking I could stroll into a store, pay for a product and take it with me. Dealers in the US have access to all the stock while Canadian dealers get next to nothing. Again, not impressed and Kawai is risking losing a sale with me as my attitude towards the brand isn't a positive one right now.

Plenty of other great DPs out there. Only thing I can do is vote with my wallet and that is what I will choose to do since Kawai seems unwilling or incapable of addressing the Canadian product availability situation.
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#2509776 - 02/12/16 10:41 AM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Strat]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 13734
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Strat
Originally Posted By Morodiene
Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? The VPC1 is a niche market among niche markets (DPs). I know we are accustomed to wanting something, and being able to buy it and get it right away, but the reality is, that's not always possible. There are people in other parts of the world who have to wait months for things.

Do you not have an instrument at all right now?

Not harsh AT ALL! The product has been on the market for 2 years and these guys can't get their act together to account for the demand that apparently has been on a steady rise since its introduction. Every dealer I spoke to told me the same thing ; plenty of demand, no supply. That is Kawai's responsibility. The fault lies with them and I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

I can understand when a product has just been released, how it might be much harder to get a hold of. This isn't the case right now. It's just poor planning on their part and I have not been impressed with the situation.

No, I sold my piano foolishly thinking I could stroll into a store, pay for a product and take it with me. Dealers in the US have access to all the stock while Canadian dealers get next to nothing. Again, not impressed and Kawai is risking losing a sale with me as my attitude towards the brand isn't a positive one right now.

Plenty of other great DPs out there. Only thing I can do is vote with my wallet and that is what I will choose to do since Kawai seems unwilling or incapable of addressing the Canadian product availability situation.


That's fine...Yamaha and Roland have fine instruments as well. I was going to suggest renting a DP from the dealer until your order arrives, but you seem upset enough to not want to bother.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2510015 - 02/12/16 11:35 PM Re: CA67 vs MP11 - Thoughts? Experiences? [Re: Morodiene]
zig Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 15
have u looked on eBay. there are some for 1600. US.

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