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#2510128 - 02/13/16 11:20 AM Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Finland
In case anybody is pondering it I think the Surface Pro might actually be the best device out there for running VSTs. I recently pulled the plug on a Surface Pro 3 (i5/128gb) that was discounted to 650euros. Definitely goes in my top 10 of tech purchases.

At least with my small Yamaha digital the amount of space available on the top is nowhere near enough for a regular laptop. But the Surface without the keyboard has a footprint close to an iPad and you still get full PC hardware. Controlling the VST with the pen is easy enough and since mine is dedicated to the piano I rarely need the keyboard. Definitely recommend to check this out if you are on the market for a dedicated VST device.

And no, I don't work for Microsoft smile I am actually running Apple device across my entire househould, other than the piano, where I felt that dropping something like 1500 euros was a bit much and I really didn't have space for a MacBook on top of the piano.

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#2510154 - 02/13/16 12:50 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
login Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/14
Posts: 180
I had a surface pro 1 and yeah it was quite good for this task. But care a lot of care with it, reapairs are very expensive.

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#2510208 - 02/13/16 04:21 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
dmd Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2502
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By Giin
I recently pulled the plug on a Surface Pro 3 ...


Just as an aside ... When one says they "pulled the plug" they usually are inferring that they stopped doing something that was not working out very well.

What you did was "pull the trigger". That means you did something which you had been considering for a while.

It didn't really matter here because I think everyone understood what you mean't because of the rest of your post.


But, now you know ... anyway
_________________________
Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur

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#2510246 - 02/13/16 06:21 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4607
Loc: North Carolina
But why do we read here (and elsewhere) so many cliched statements?
How is "I pulled the trigger" better than (or different from) "I bought"?

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#2510249 - 02/13/16 06:29 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: MacMacMac]
JohnSprung Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 2991
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By MacMacMac
But why do we read here (and elsewhere) so many cliched statements?
How is "I pulled the trigger" better than (or different from) "I bought"?


Yes, we shouldn't expect the rest of the world to keep our American idioms sorted. It's not until someone mentions it that it becomes clear how non-intuitive the plug and the trigger are. ;-)
_________________________
-- J.S.

I used to think that the brain was the most wonderful organ in my body.
Then I realized who was telling me this.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

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#2510274 - 02/13/16 07:54 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4607
Loc: North Carolina
Funny thing ... just moments after I made that comment my daughter posted this on Facebook.

But aside from the difficulties experienced by newcomers to the language, I find it odd that native speakers find cause to overuse cliches even when speaking to native speakers.

Sadly, even journalists (and especially newscasters) overuse them, and even misuse them. And these are people who are (or should be) trained to know better. Sad.

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#2510315 - 02/13/16 11:48 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: MacMacMac]
dmd Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2502
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By MacMacMac
But why do we read here (and elsewhere) so many cliched statements?
How is "I pulled the trigger" better than (or different from) "I bought"?


"pulled the trigger" implies that you were considering the action and then decided to go ahead and do it.

"bought" simply relays the final result that you did it without the additional information that you were contemplating it for some time before making the decision.



Edited by dmd (02/13/16 11:49 PM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur

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#2510319 - 02/14/16 12:09 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Beakybird Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/14
Posts: 109
At least he didn't pull a fast one.
_________________________
Casio PX-160; Pianoteq 5 + Bluthner and Model B; 2 KRK Rokit 6 G3; Focusrite Saffire; 2 Yamaha PSR-S970s; FBT Maxx 2a's

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#2510331 - 02/14/16 01:30 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Finland
Hah yeah, I was actually aware of the difference between pulling the trigger and pulling the plug smile Simply a case of hands typing faster than the brain is processing.

In my defence, english is not my native language.

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#2510384 - 02/14/16 07:03 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
stamkorg Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 183
Originally Posted By Giin
In case anybody is pondering it I think the Surface Pro might actually be the best device out there for running VSTs. I recently pulled the plug on a Surface Pro 3 (i5/128gb) that was discounted to 650euros. Definitely goes in my top 10 of tech purchases.

At least with my small Yamaha digital the amount of space available on the top is nowhere near enough for a regular laptop. But the Surface without the keyboard has a footprint close to an iPad and you still get full PC hardware. Controlling the VST with the pen is easy enough and since mine is dedicated to the piano I rarely need the keyboard. Definitely recommend to check this out if you are on the market for a dedicated VST device.

And no, I don't work for Microsoft smile I am actually running Apple device across my entire househould, other than the piano, where I felt that dropping something like 1500 euros was a bit much and I really didn't have space for a MacBook on top of the piano.


Giin,
Can you specify the lowest buffer setting which gives you a stable system, without dropouts, and at whitch polyphony?
Thanks
SK

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#2510385 - 02/14/16 07:09 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
dmd Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2502
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By Giin
Hah yeah, I was actually aware of the difference between pulling the trigger and pulling the plug smile Simply a case of hands typing faster than the brain is processing.

In my defence, english is not my native language.


Absolutely ... I totally understand. I know only English, so hats off to you for handling two (or more) languages.

I just thought I would mention it so you would not continue to use that phrase incorrectly.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur

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#2510386 - 02/14/16 07:26 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Finland
Stamkorg: I haven't been messing with VSTs long enough to be technically very savvy with them. I have Pianoteq and Ivory but currently I am only using Pianoteq, which I prefer over Ivory. That being said I had to install ASIO4ALL to get below 10ms latency which I felt noticeable. I am using a MusicStreamer II USB DAC which had no ASIO driver, which is the reason for ASIO4ALL. No idea if this is good or bad but it seems to work. After installing ASIO4ALL I was able to get 5.6ms with 256 samples at 44.1kHz and 48 note polyphony. I have a cheap Yamaha P45 keyboard that supposedly has 64 note polyphony, but 48 is what Pianoteq had as the default setting and I haven't felt the need to mess around with it.

I am unsure what a stable system means in this context but at 5.6ms I am unable to notice any lag and everything sounds quite nice. I am using Sennheiser HD800 headphones and high enough volumes that I think I would quite easily notice any artefacts in the sound. The reason I mention the headphones is that I am quite easily able to pick up things like people coughing on classical concert recordings from Spotify on them.


Edited by Giin (02/14/16 07:27 AM)

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#2510398 - 02/14/16 08:59 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Chewbacca Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 95
Would anybody know if the USB power output on the Surface enough to power a VPC1?

Sounds like a good device if one wants to combine laptop + tablet (for scores).

Cheers,
C

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#2510399 - 02/14/16 09:04 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Chewbacca]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 912
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By Chewbacca
Would anybody know if the USB power output on the Surface enough to power a VPC1?

Sounds like a good device if one wants to combine laptop + tablet (for scores).

Cheers,
C
I haven't tried it, but so long as both devices comply with standards, there should be no problem.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2510428 - 02/14/16 11:11 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Finland
Also the Surface Pro 3 (previous gen model, which is cheap to get now) only has one USB port. So you are going to have to get a USB hub anyways (well unless you use headphones directly connected to the Surface). Just get one that has it's own power source, and can output 10W, and you should be golden.

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#2510518 - 02/14/16 02:38 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
stamkorg Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 183
Originally Posted By Giin
Stamkorg: I haven't been messing with VSTs long enough to be technically very savvy with them. I have Pianoteq and Ivory but currently I am only using Pianoteq, which I prefer over Ivory. That being said I had to install ASIO4ALL to get below 10ms latency which I felt noticeable. I am using a MusicStreamer II USB DAC which had no ASIO driver, which is the reason for ASIO4ALL. No idea if this is good or bad but it seems to work. After installing ASIO4ALL I was able to get 5.6ms with 256 samples at 44.1kHz and 48 note polyphony. I have a cheap Yamaha P45 keyboard that supposedly has 64 note polyphony, but 48 is what Pianoteq had as the default setting and I haven't felt the need to mess around with it.



Thank you for these informations

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#2510604 - 02/14/16 08:00 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: lolatu]
Chewbacca Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 95
Originally Posted By lolatu
Originally Posted By Chewbacca
Would anybody know if the USB power output on the Surface enough to power a VPC1?

Sounds like a good device if one wants to combine laptop + tablet (for scores).

Cheers,
C
I haven't tried it, but so long as both devices comply with standards, there should be no problem.


Yeah that is what I am thinking too. And since the surface is a more versatile laptop (as opposed to a tablet on steroid) it should work.

Anyone would know of a good score editor for windows? (not to write music, but to put fingering / annotations and sort out a score collection, à la forscore for ipad).

Hmmm, this is getting me interested. I may be pulling the trigger myself at some point wink

Cheers,
C


Edited by Chewbacca (02/14/16 08:01 PM)

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#2510605 - 02/14/16 08:11 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Chewbacca]
alerique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 131
Originally Posted By Chewbacca

Anyone would know of a good score editor for windows? (not to write music, but to put fingering / annotations and sort out a score collection, à la forscore for ipad).


There was quite a lot of fuss about this one, designed specifically for Surface. Don't know if it's good for your needs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_PgKyqE3RU

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#2511006 - 02/15/16 05:44 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: alerique]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 912
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By alerique
Originally Posted By Chewbacca

Anyone would know of a good score editor for windows? (not to write music, but to put fingering / annotations and sort out a score collection, à la forscore for ipad).


There was quite a lot of fuss about this one, designed specifically for Surface. Don't know if it's good for your needs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_PgKyqE3RU

That seems to be specifically for writing scores, not editing existing PDFs etc. Looks interesting, but a shame it's too expensive ($70/£54) for someone like me who might just want to play around with it a bit.

For editing, I haven't found anything like Forscore for Windows (unfortunately), but my conclusion when I looked at it a couple of months ago ( link) was that on Windows 10 without a stylus, Adobe Reader DC was the best I could find (and it's free).
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2511121 - 02/16/16 12:31 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
kanefsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 71
Anyone try Ivory Mobile Grand for iPad? It's on sale right now for only $35 ($20 for the Korg app plus $15 for the Ivory expanion module)

http://www.synthogy.com/index.php/news/i...module-ipad-app

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/korg-module/id932191687?ls=1&mt=8

--
Steve

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#2511215 - 02/16/16 09:05 AM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: kanefsky]
newbert Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 847
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By kanefsky
Anyone try Ivory Mobile Grand for iPad? It's on sale right now for only $35 ($20 for the Korg app plus $15 for the Ivory expanion module)

http://www.synthogy.com/index.php/news/i...module-ipad-app

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/korg-module/id932191687?ls=1&mt=8

--
Steve


Yes. I have both the Korg Module and the Ivory expansion kit for iPad.

While I can't say it's as good as a full PC library, it IS surprisingly good and well worth the $$ IMO.

Disclosure: I use my PC VSTs much more than my iPad apps.
_________________________
Bert



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#2511792 - 02/17/16 01:52 PM Re: Thumbs up for Microsoft Surface Pro [Re: Giin]
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Finland
I actually prefer iGrand over the Korg+Ivory on iPad. Nothing on the iPad is in the same league as PC VSTs in my opinion however. This was one of my reasons for investing in the surface since I was not at all satisfied with the iPad options.

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