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#2510202 - 02/13/16 03:52 PM Need Recommendations
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
Hi all, Recently decided to get into playing the piano, However I dont have the space or the money for an actual piano yet. Looking at keyboards currently and having trouble deciding. My Price range is anything under $300, since im new I figure Ill just learn on something pretty basic, that being said Im still looking for something with decent sound. I only care for the piano sounds in the keyboard. I dont care for all the other stuff.

I was looking at the Yamaha NP-V60 but was seeing some people are saying it sounds the same as the other ones (NP-31, NP-11). Can anyone tell me if this is true or not? Thanks for your help

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#2510216 - 02/13/16 04:44 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Doug M. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 92
With such a limited budget, I suggest you consider something secondhand that would allow you 88 keys, preferably weighted.
_________________________
Doug M.

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#2510217 - 02/13/16 04:49 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
cathryn999 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/15
Posts: 285
Loc: Australia
What country and state do you live in?
_________________________
The difference between dreams and reality is action.

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#2510226 - 02/13/16 05:01 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Doug M.]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
I've seen alot of suggestions about weighted keys. Are they really that important? Im brand new to piano btw

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#2510227 - 02/13/16 05:07 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: cathryn999]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
Im from the US, And I could Probably go up to $360 but that's about it for right now, I am okay with used, or open box if need be.

Like I said, Im a beginner so it doesnt have to be super fancy, Just something that plays nice and has good sound to it. I only care for the piano sound, well because its what im trying to learn.

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#2510228 - 02/13/16 05:09 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5497
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By jimpeggins
I've seen alot of suggestions about weighted keys. Are they really that important? Im brand new to piano btw


Get a teacher who can give you one on one advice.

You can teach yourself music theory but it really helps to have another person standing next to you teaching you how to play.
_________________________

website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Yamaha CP5 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

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#2510232 - 02/13/16 05:26 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Dave Horne]
Charles Cohen Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 2706
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Yes, "weighted keys" are important, if you intend to play piano, rather than synth or organ.

I checked the GuitarCenter.com website -- there's a clearance on Casio PX-150, $400. It has 88 weighted keys, and a better sound generator than anything in the Yamaha "Piaggero" series.

It is also "feature-poor" compared to the NP-V30. I think it has rhythms, but I know it has a limited set of voices. But it will do you much better as a digital _piano_.

If you want to play piano, and you don't _need_ really light weight, I'd urge you to find a used DP with 88 weighted keys. Casio PX-150 and Yamaha P105 are recently-discontinued models with good reports here. You should be able to find one either within your budget, or with a bit of stretching.

I know -- this falls into "I don't care what you want me to compare for you, here's a whole different way to solve your problem and spend your money!"

If you _know_ you're going to replace your initial keyboard in a short time, and you're _really_ tight on cash, one of the other Piaggero models (e.g. NP-11) might be a bit less expensive than the V60. Only 61 keys, and basic features.

All these pianos are limited by their amps and speakers. A Piaggero playing through a good PA system, or good headphones, sounds way better than playing through its own loudspeakers.

PS -- edit -- GuitarCenter.com also has a used Yamaha NP31 (76-key Piaggero) for $200.



Edited by Charles Cohen (02/13/16 05:34 PM)
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

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#2510282 - 02/13/16 08:24 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Charles Cohen]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
Between the NP-11, NP- 31, NP-V60. Are there any difference in the sound of the piano? I plan on playing whatever one I decide on for about a year or two. Depending on how my progress goes I'll either stick with that keyboard or move up to something higher quality maybe around $600/$700. But that's in a few years time. Thank you for your help on this I really appreciate it, nobody else seems to want to help a beginner. Not even Yamaha lol

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#2510350 - 02/14/16 04:07 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2784
Loc: UK
Forget about the NP11 and 31 if you are starting out and want to learn 'piano'. They are like toys, and your enthusiasm will not last "a few years time". The NPV60 is so-so. Charles is right a used PX150, P35, P105 may be within budget and is much much better to start on. If your goal is synth, or keyboard, OK, maybe start with the NP11/31.

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#2510356 - 02/14/16 04:46 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 633
Loc: Germany
jimpeggins, I am a beginner and I have checked out keyboards (for travel, not for home), and as others have said: if you want to learn piano, get something with "weighted keys"/"hammer action". It is a whole different experience than a keyboard.

I'd get a used/refurbished Casio PX model or a Yamaha P35/45/105. And I'd rather save on latte's etc. for a few months than go with a keyboard. It is really a big difference.

Do not worry too much about sound. When you can afford them, you can get nice headphones or monitor speakers later. Also, if the keyboard comes with MIDI out (important, I think, but may cost extra), you can drive a software piano on your laptop or PC with it. For example, Pianoteq has a trial version that already models a better piano than most DPs.
_________________________
Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)

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#2510372 - 02/14/16 05:46 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Frédéric L Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 553
Loc: France
"Also, if the keyboard comes with MIDI out". All digital piano have a MIDI out or a USB plug (more and more USB), and they are equivalent if you want to connect a PC with a virtual piano.
_________________________
Yamaha CLP150, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq

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#2510387 - 02/14/16 07:41 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Giin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Finland
I have a Yamaha P45 which is something like 450 euros I think. It has a fairly fast action which isn't horrible compared to my reference (Kawai MP10, which I don't have anymore). Obviously the Kawai action is at a different class and the P45 is really light/fast to play compared to any acoustic I've tried. So I feel this is something that will last me maybe a year of playing after which I will upgrade to a better action.

It seems that at this price point you can get a decent(ish) action with a cheap plastic build and really poor speakers. The speaker issue can be solved by investing a bit in headphones. I don't hate the onboard sounds on the P45 but I also don't feel they are anything to write home about. Luckily the P45 has a USB midi out so I am using Pianoteq on my laptop, which makes it sound fantastic. The P45 also has no output for external speakers, so if you want a decent speaker sound out of it you need to use a computer and something like Pianoteq (any buy the speakers).

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#2510409 - 02/14/16 10:38 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Giin]
Fer De Armas Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 466
Hi, try a Casio Px150/160, it has a faster key action than Yamaha P45 and a tri sensor for better repetition too... all for only $500. Cheers!...

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#2510462 - 02/14/16 12:19 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
mcoll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Europe
I second Charles's suggestion for a PX150 - 400$ is a very good deal and that model is maybe the cheapest that will allow you to learn to play the piano. If you want to play keyboard, that's another discussion, but you can't learn how to play piano on a keyboard and all the stuff you were looking at will not help you.
You will thank your self for having gone for the PX150 as opposed to those. You can look for a used one as well (but don't go for other older or weaker Casio models such as the PX130, CDP220, they have a different action and aren't worth half of the 400 price tag of a new PX150).
I also think that's your best bet that's close enough to your budget. If you don't have a proper instrument, you won't be so eager to play it and it's a good recipe for quitting, and even if you wouldn't quit, you'd just develop bad habits which will make it close to impossible to properly play the piano further down the line.

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#2510484 - 02/14/16 01:09 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
fizikisto Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hernando, MS
Jimpeggins,
Guitarcenter.com has the Casio CDP130 listed for $300. The PX150 deal for $400 is a much better piano if you can stretch your budget a bit, but if not the CDP130 is perfectly acceptable as a piano to learn on (and it's within your budget). It has 88 fully weighted keys and onboard speakers (not all digital pianos have speakers, you need to either buy separate speakers or headphones). Those two are your best options in that price range (in my opinion).

warm regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2510575 - 02/14/16 05:24 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: fizikisto]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2784
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By fizikisto
Jimpeggins,
Guitarcenter.com has the Casio CDP130 listed for $300. The PX150 deal for $400 is a much better piano if you can stretch your budget a bit, but if not the CDP130 is perfectly acceptable as a piano to learn on (and it's within your budget). It has 88 fully weighted keys and onboard speakers (not all digital pianos have speakers, you need to either buy separate speakers or headphones). Those two are your best options in that price range (in my opinion).

warm regards

Good suggestion, the CDP120 too is decent for a beginner.

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#2510675 - 02/15/16 12:58 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
Say I have a tight budget right now, I've never played piano and am brand new to it. Right now, I just need something that sounds decent for my price range and doesn't feel cheap. Learning on anything is better than just sitting around with nothing. I understand weighted keys are important but they do up the price quite a bit, I shall try to save up for a P45 most likely.

In the event Im not able to, What keyboard would be recommended under $400? I will most likely stay on my keyboard, I will never invest in an actual Piano.

My goal here is to learn music and play these songs I've listened to for so long, Im aware I'll be taking baby steps for awhile. But eventually I trust I'll have them down on the keyboard, And maybe when I go over a friends house or somewhere else and there is an ACTUAL piano I can still play these songs (despite the weighted keys). Maybe not with as much ease but still to be able to.
I appreciate the help and recommendations from everyone Thank you

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#2510681 - 02/15/16 01:04 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Giin]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
If I cant get something with actual weighted keys, is there something that comes close to it? Like is there semi weighted?

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#2510694 - 02/15/16 01:54 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
mcoll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Europe
Is there some reason for you to ignore the two excellent casio recommendations (with fully weighted keys), which also happen to have a very attractive price?
There are some beautiful recordings of music made by guys here on the forum with the PX150 and it can help you to learn piano properly. I think Alexander Borro is one of them, but I apologise if my memory is playing tricks on me. Or I think it was a guy, Andrei, but I can't remember his full name. It was a slavic name, I believe.
As for your question about keyboard vs piano, if what you wish (your goal ultimately) is to play piano, many would argue that learning something bad is worse than not learning at all. It's the same as in sports with bad habits, maybe more critical. I've always compared keyboards, wellwell, to computer keyboards. They feel more like that than like actually playing piano as far as I'm concerned. Not such an issue for keyboardist, but it won't help you play piano, maybe quite the contrary.
Happily, the two casios are both in your price range, and despite the fact that I consider the PX150 well worth the extra hundred, I personally know an old acoustic player who was very pleased with the cdp220 as well (he got it for 250$ new, from the shop, unbeatable price), so do consider them properly.


Edited by mcoll (02/15/16 01:56 AM)

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#2510710 - 02/15/16 03:21 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Charles Cohen Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 2706
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
OK -- inexpensive synth-action keyboards . .. . .

There's a popular Yamaha "PSR" series of synth-action keyboards with built-in rhythms and (I think in most models) "intelligent" backing tracks. The cheapest of them isn't "touch-sensitive", and touch-sensitive keys is a feature that you _really_ need.

The Yamaha PSR-E443 (well above "bottom of the line") has 61 touch-sensitive keys, costs about $250 online. Lots of different sounds, rhythms, accompaniment styles. In the low-cost "digital keyboard" range, it's not a bad choice.

61 keys is as small a keyboard as you should get, IMHO. It'll let you play pop, and a fair bit of jazz. If you get serious, you may want to replace it -- but you know that already. It's light, easy to carry around.

Take a look in Costco -- they might carry either Yamaha or Casio keyboards. Their prices are quite competitive.

And when I checked:

Costco (online) will sell you a Yamaha DGX-230 package (keyboard / stand / headphones) for $300. 76 touch-sensitive keys, lots of features. That includes some built-in learning software.

. . . it's a reasonable deal.
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

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#2510747 - 02/15/16 07:10 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: mcoll]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
I would love a casio with weighted keys. Its purely cost thats the issue. I ask for something around $400 so that maybe I can find it used somewhere for $350-$380 ish.

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#2510752 - 02/15/16 07:56 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4583
Loc: North Carolina
With a tight budget like yours I'd look for something used. You can get a used piano for a LOT LESS than a new one. A new $400 piano costs $400. A used $1000 piano might also cost $400.

I suspect lots of beginners buy a piano and then give it up. The pianos become burdensome, and their owners eager to part with them. So look in the local listings (Craig's List, etc.).

In exchange for spending little money, be prepared to spend lots of time. Visit sellers, find what you like, and work a deal. It takes time.

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#2510790 - 02/15/16 10:02 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
fizikisto Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hernando, MS
Jimpeggins,
MacMacMac is right that sometimes you can find great deals on used instruments. However, that usually comes at the cost of not having a warranty. You generally don't know how the piano has been used/abused by the previous owner, so it can be a gamble. In your situation, where money is obviously very tight in terms of what you're willing (or able) to spend, I would go for the Casio CDP 130 for $300. I suspect that it's going to be your best bet.

Warm Regards,
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2510993 - 02/15/16 05:09 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: fizikisto]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
Yeah that seems to be the cheapest keyboard with weighted keys I can find. Im not expecting a good voice to come from it, is it reasonable?

It says it has a MIDI in/out so are there any programs I could use on pc that you know of to make it sound better? Thank you for your help

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#2511031 - 02/15/16 07:15 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Charles Cohen Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 2706
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
I just tried a CDP-230R at Costco (Vancouver BC). It seemed to have a nice action, and a full set of tones. The piano sounds were pretty good, but I wasn't doing critical listening. The tone _did_ vary nicely with key velocity, which is an important feature. It was priced around $350 Cdn -- roughly $260 US. A very good deal for the price.

A review:

http://azpianonews.blogspot.ca/2014/08/C...-keyboard-.html

If Costco is running close-out pricing on them, in the US, it'll be within your budget, and a good choice.

Yes, you can run a "software piano" to generate tones on your computer. Pianoteq Stage (there are several versions, and upgrades) will run around $110, I think. It sounds better (IMHO) than any of the sub-$1000 DP's. --

. . . But learn to play first, eh?
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

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#2511054 - 02/15/16 08:32 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
fizikisto Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hernando, MS
jimpeggins,
Absolutely. The CDP 130 has MIDI over USB. So you can get an inexpensive (couple of bucks) USB cable to plug your piano into your computer. You can buy a wide range of piano libraries (and other sounds if you want) and use your piano to play them from your computer (the sounds will come out of your computer speakers not your piano speakers). This ads to the cost of course, but it's something that you could buy down the line to future-proof your investment. Pianoteq is a popular choice for this as it has some very reasonably priced options.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2511086 - 02/15/16 10:29 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Finfan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 139
Loc: Arizona USA
A full 88 weighted keys is nice and will help you develop your techniques right away but it isn't absolutely necessary. I started on a unweighted 61 key Yamaha that I purchased at a pawn shop for $70. With that I learned to sight read, form chords, and play basic lessons from an adult beginners book. I've since upgraded to a used P105 that I really like. Aside from the feel of playing the one thing you gain from the weighted keyboard is the ability to control the dynamics of how soft or loud you are playing. Go with what you can afford and just try your best! Good Luck!
_________________________
Yamaha P105

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#2511088 - 02/15/16 10:30 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
xadmin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/25/16
Posts: 14
A CDP130 is a cheap and good piano to start with and it is within your budget

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#2511111 - 02/16/16 12:01 AM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: jimpeggins]
Charles Cohen Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 2706
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
I've addressed a similar question before -- not much has changed:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2141163.html#Post2141163
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

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#2511440 - 02/16/16 05:20 PM Re: Need Recommendations [Re: Charles Cohen]
jimpeggins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 11
I emailed around and found a PX-150 for $380 and also a Yamaha P-95 for $350. Should I go with one of these instead?

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