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I find talk about the LX17's key noise absurd. It is one of the quietest digital keyboards I have played. No issue here at all.

People are obsessing about the craziest things here. Key noise? Everybody seems to want digital pianos to be as much like acoustic pianos as possible. Ever hear an acoustic piano whose mechanical keys did not make noise? I am coming to the conclusion reading this sub-forum that, just as people will advise a beginner to take along somebody who is experienced when buying a piano (digital or acoustic), maybe people here should bring along somebody who is non-technical to keep things in perspective.

Tony

@TonyB: key noise?

No key noise at all !
Don't like a digital to sound much as like as an acoustic. Thats crazy ! Simply want the digi to sound much more perfect than an acoustic. Thats perhaps Rolands new modelling technique. but mechanically there can be a lot done to avoid acoustic and body transmission of key noise, which is btw the case on acoustic pianos. There is usually no 2mm bottom cover below the keys. There is usually real wood that prevents noise emmision in an acoustic piano. The cabinet seems to be simply a weak part on some digis, which allow each mechanical noise more of less unfiltered or amplified by body resonances to be transmitted to the room. Good if some expensive digi-pianos a build much more solid, but I am not sure.


@Grandman wrote: I find talk about the LX17's key noise absurd. It is one of the quietest digital keyboards I have played. No issue here at all.

under which condition you come to this conclusion ?

@Grandman wrote: I find talk about the LX17's key noise absurd. It is one of the quietest digital keyboards I have played. No issue here at all.

I agree with granny here, i have the HP605 which has the same bed of keys and when i heard people complain about key noise i tried to hear any and was baffled at the whole thing. I mean people actually say their neighbors complain because they can hear it through the walls of apartments? i cant hear it sitting right at it so i don't get it..

Stiggy,

it's often the case with acoustic things. Than someone being 2 behind you is hearing it better than you. But it's not the case with sound, but with moving the vibrations through the walls. Also, I have my bedroom directly above gate to my block. It's being closed during the night, and, if someone is sometimes opening it in the night... believe... is sounds like someone would want to rip it off from the concreto wall and some bomb was there. While for the one opening nothing special really happens and it is no loud at all. Same thing can be with the piano action and in that case I would not be surprised at all.

It's very quiet in my building late at night, and when I played my CA67 (with headphones of course) my downstairs neighbor complained that it was keeping him up. As DPs go the CA67 has quiet keys, so I assumed the problem was the pedal going thunk (my pedal technique sucks). So I put a layer of soundproofing material underneath the piano, and at night I limited myself to playing music that didn't require the pedal. And he still heard it! I now have three layers of soundproofing material, which will help if the problem was the sound being transmitted directly from the piano through the wooden floor. But if the problem is transmission through the air there isn't much that can be done. Yet if you're in the same room you barely notice the noise!

(Fortunately the bozo downstairs got himself evicted last week -- never tell your landlord you're going to punch his lights out, boys and girls! -- and there is a chance the next tenant will have less sensitive ears. )

Jeb,
Here's hoping that your new neighbor has poor hearing or that they work the graveyard shift

One of the previous downstairs tenants had terrible hearing, and regularly fell asleep in front of a blaring TV. I would have to go down at 3AM and bang on his door for five minutes to wake him up and tell him to turn it off.

But no, he never complained about noise from my piano. So there was that.

Hi, IMHO if you are looking for the quietest key actions (wooden or plastic) available in the market, you must go directly with the Kawai brand. Regards!.

Sigh....

Ok. Nothing has changed...

I wondered.

Jay

I am not looking for the quiestest key action available on the market. I am looking for excellent sound engine with no tranmission of key noise to ground and neighbours. As you have to learn, also Kawai key noise can disturb neighbours, and it might not be sufficient to have the quietest key action on the market. Without telling how you measure this key noise transmission, statements like "quiestest key action" is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

BTW this is a HP and LX Pianos Roland thread. So please stay away !

I wish he would!

Hi Jay, please do not take it wrong... IMHO Roland has a second place with respect a quieter action due last key action generations PHA4/PHA50, especially the latest PHA50. Regards.

The "troll" thread and previous posts on that topic in this thread have been deleted.

Let's give it a rest folks.

So I pulled the trigger today and bought the HP-605 in Contemporary Black, quite exciting now.

But I must say Jay that I was impressed by the key action of the F-140, it had a nice bounce in the key which simulate for me more of a grand feel than the HP-605. It was actually to the point where I considered it even if the speakers are a bit worse and maybe sounds in general. But the first piano sound in that piano I found very pleasing, it is modelling and Super natural in F-140 just like in the HP-508 right?

Anyway that was a great piano and even if the keys are full plastic I just liked the touch a lot, it gave an amazing feedback. Maybe something you can pass along to Roland that they should not abandon that feel fully. Because it feels like Roland strive for a different feel in the latest action and somehow my fingers just enjoyed that bouncing more and it felt great.


I wanted to mention it since you work with Roland, anyway if anyone looking for a cool piano, priced ridiculously good for how much punch it packed look no further, just go for the F-140 and have a good time. I tried a white version in the store, I think there is black and white, it's quite a modest minimal looking but cool piano and for less than half the price of a HP-605 I think you do get a lot for your money. I am still almost more impressed with that piano than I have been with the HP-605 and I been in store trying the HP-605 almost 20 times now I think. Today was my first try with the F-140 and was blown away actually. I think that is mostly because I need to become more friend with the fully modelled sound of the HP-605.

Ultimate dream would still be a bit more of the string twang and thunder of samples combined with the super natural connectedness when playing, and a bit of that nice bounce from the PHA-4 Natural keybed in the F-140, then Roland would have my dream piano and I would be loyal like a dog to the company.

I hope I grow with the HP-605 and that I made the right choice, I am still not 100% sure but I needed a piano, been waiting too long and I miss playing on a proper piano. I was not fully happy with any of the pianos I tested, the Yamaha sound great but there is something with their keys and how the sound reacts, I seem to have less control and the samples are a bit wild at times and I just feel like I am one step behind of what is playing, it's hard to explain. The contact to the key and sound on Roland is INSTANT and very nice. I do miss the Thunder like I said in the Roland, it seem to be on the brighter side but I hope I can adjust most of it because it was harsh in headphones at times, any suggestions to bring out more bass and just fuller sound of it?

One more thing Jay, can I control all piano tuning things on the piano itself? Is there a detailed list of what these are somewhere?

I read somewhere that you can create quite a bit of variation on the sound but from the parameters I saw in the menu it was quite normal adjustments that don't seem to affect the overall character much. You wouldn't have some different sound demos of what people constructed out of the SN engine?

One last thing I wish I was like poor when I did my choice, like 1000€ poor then I would have taken the F-140 because I could not afford anything else and I would have been ultra happy. More money can sometimes be a trap to buy more expensive but not always better instruments, only time will tell if I did the right choice. But damn that nice bounce, like small titties under your fingers bouncing around when playing, you guys just have to try it out, amazing stuff.

What is the biggest improvement of the PHA-4 and PHA-4 "standard" and also the PHA-50? PHA-4 standard is an even simpler construction of the PHA-4? And what make the PHA-50 so superior to the PHA-4, I guess I just couldn't feel the improvement in the same way as others do, I miss the bounce damnit!

Ok I will bounce, peace out !

Sounds like you should have bought the F-140 and saved yourself a bunch of money. You didn't really mount a strong argument for why you did buy the HP605. The idea that you want to try to like the fully modelled piano is speculative at best - it's just as likely that you will like it less as you play it more. Is it too late to back out and get the one you actually liked more?

LOL

Well i am actually considering back and forth what the drawbacks would be, that is why I asked about the PHA-4 standard if I somehow miss something with that keybed that make it less appealing than the PHA-50.

Sure better sound in the HP-605 speakers but that is to be expected, but 1300€ better sound? Not really, I can go down to my local Hi-Fi store and get a beast surround amp and 4 speakers and a sub that will blow the HP-605 away and make it sound like a Samsung S5 mobile in comparison. I will even have change left for a nice meal at a michelin star restaurant on my way home if I wanted.

Nicer looking furniture is another aspect which actually do make me want to sit more at the piano but the F-140 did not look bad, I think they managed to get a nice almost Clavichord look to it which I love, I am a sucker for harpsichord and all these older instruments and for being minimalistic they did a good job.

But you are right, I am thinking now like "what do I get now that is so much better with the HP-605". I play 90% with headphones and I will most likely connect the piano to Ivory German D and definitely do it if I don't like the modelled sound enough. So that leaves a good keybed that I pay 2400€ for, sure bluetooth also nice but still a bit insane.

So 2400€ for the HP-605 or 1100€ for the F-140, I sure am questioning if I get twice the worth in the HP, I don't think I get that even if I do get some things but not really 1300€ worth of features.

Anyone tried the F-140 and had a similar impression like me? It's easy to say it feels [censored] because it's cheaper and then project this image that the more expensive keys are better but it really wasn't a clear case as you might think.

Not sure why I fell in love with that particular feel, almost like one of these anomalys that Roland want to get rid off not understanding it's brilliance. Infact maybe it was one of those mistakes that turned out great but they didn't realise it until the instrument was out of production. Why otherwise remove the bounce almost completely in the newer PHA-50 key-action? I can honestly say if that keybed with that bounce would have wooden keys people would scream "best keybed out there, hands down bla bla" I promise it was that good and authentic, the plastic is what gives it away as cheaper and I did not check the pivot point in detail but it didn't feel like it was heavy to strike at all.

It's great days to be a poor pianist looking for a good first piano that's for sure, the F-140 is a no brainer if you ask me, feels like sitting at a grand for the price of 1000€. And the sound and speakers for this price was actually really good, don't be fooled folks. This is the piano I would easily run out and get for my sisters kids if they ever showed interest in music and not hesitate a second that I made the right choice. It seems to be a lot easier to choose a piano in the lower segment than in the higher, at least to me. The more money involved the more perfect you want it to be and in the higher segment none of the pianos are even close to being perfect.

For the price of the F-140 I would actually say it is a perfect model, great job Roland, seriously I'm impressed. Not saying the HP is bad it just feels like you pay maybe a bit more than you want and what you feel you get in return. Because I really felt the F-140 had a charming nice piano sound competing with the HP-605 and that should not be the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDah5LIurcM So this is sample and super natural combined? It do somehow sound a bit better than just modelling to my ears, the piano twang sound is there and the resonance and bell-sound is more present.

Compare it with this HP-605 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTT4KMrU6OM

Oh my god I will go to store tomorrow again and testdrive the F-140 like crazy and try to convince myself that it's crappier than the HP. Maybe I find some flaws in it if I test it more in detail, I get so pissed that Roland went full modelling on their higher models before the actual technique is mature enough. Why not just keep samples in the mix if that actually sound better, that is beyond me, it almost feel like they are fighting themselfs with maniac chase for innovation. Like opening the rose by force instead of letting it nurture on it's own and unfold as it grows. If they would have kept the sample in the mix one more generation I think they could have been 80% of peoples choices because the only thing people really dislike or feel is not quite right is that modelling.

Anyway rant is over I needed to ventilate here, nice with discussions about it and inputs would be great.

Trust when I say that modelling is mature enough for use in a mainstream product. No two tastes are alike, and it seems you may just prefer the sound of the F-140 over the HP605. It's perfectly ok to do so.

ON the new HP/LX series, you have control of individual key tunings from both the piano and the Piano designer App for Android and iOS.

The Key bounce on the newer PHA-50 is at least equal to that of the F-140's PHA-4 Standard. The PHA-50 will have higher initial inertia from its hybrid construction. But the bounce is very present. I am reading these posts while in a dealers showroom, and I just checked both instruments.

(Mobile posting on this forum is a pain in the butt, but whatever)

The Note Character adjustment can bring out the "thunder" if that's what you want. Also the Hugo Veyyzer preset in the App, has a great tone to it (for me anyways) and adds some low end. The Soundboard parameter also makes a dramatic difference.

Jay

Thanks for your input Jay.

But what is that extra kickback feel on the PHA-4 then, it's very present and if you stand next to them you must feel it also? It feels great and I'm not sure why it's so present in just that model, I didn't find it in most other models I tried from Roland.

Anyway here is another beautiful HP-605 clip, but it do feel like she have changed her piano sound because the floor model did not sound like this, it was brighter and also harder to contain somehow. Or is she using a totally different software?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDv8F1t_DjM The tone here is very balanced, a bit dull but it suits the style here.