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Question for the teachers:
Do you notice a difference in the way the kids learn and the speed with which they progress between kids of parents who play vs those who do not?

At our music school recital the other day, I was astounded by how poorly some kids played. Hand position, posture, musicality, so many things were completely absent in some kids. They sat down, bang-bang-banged the piece with dropped wrists, and ran off the stage. I think my kids did so much better, but I could be biased of course.

The thing is, I don't have time to practice daily with my kids because I work. Most of their practice happens independently (while the nanny is on her iphone), so I can hardly claim credit for their progress. And yet they have the good habits and beginnings of good technique happening compared to some of the other kids.

My kids do witness me practice every night, and we are taught by the same teacher.

I am just curious if the teachers here notice a difference, and if yes, why?

It's a non-factor, at least in my studio.

Right now, the most involved parent (who also plays piano) has one of the slowest progressing student, but it's really the student's developmental challenges getting in the way.

Two of my best students have parents who are musically illiterate. The third one has a mother who knows how to read music, but she interferes with her daughter's learning constantly--I'd rather not have that obstacle to overcome week after week.

Everything else being equal, I think the biggest factor is the child: innate musical ability, the will to practice, the attention span, the ability to follow direction, etc. etc. etc.

Some kids have experience with being taught one on one for sustained amounts of time. I think that attention span and ability to be taught is the biggest factor when starting something new. However, I have been analyzing reading ability lately and have noticed the biggest indicator of success in academics (which piano may or may not fall into) seems to be reading ability.

I think adding reading level to a piano intake form would be interesting when comparing progress.

Are your children reading at grade level?

+1. The 2nd biggest factor is the teacher. A bunch of students who play with dropped wrists are obviously not being taught regularly not to do that.

^ or doing it despite being told not to every week

The one thing different with musical parents is that they really do see music as a valuable activity that should be done daily. They're more likely to immerse their kids in good music, and to support practicing. But not all do, and many non-musical parents are great at these things too.

Sure, the biggest factor is the kids themselves, but if you have kids with X amount of talent and a parent is also involved who is supportive, interested and also a musician that's the best.

It doesn't happen that often.

My two best young students right now have very involved fathers who come to the lessons and help structure their kids practice. In one case the father is a band director and is absolutely super in making sure that what is done at home maximizes what I go over in lessons.

Other parents are (frankly) utterly useless in lessons and do more harm than good.

That's a natural byproduct of learning piano at a music school.

Interesting observations. I would have thought it made a difference, but I guess not. Come to think of it, my MIL is a professional musician, but my husband hated to practice and never got very far at all, despite (or maybe because of) her prompting. But I have seen the opposite as well.

I am just trying to figure out how to encourage piano practice in my kids without going overboard. It has been discussed ad nauseum I am sure, but kids don't have the natural discipline to sit and practice (at least my 7 and 9 year-olds don't) unless I remind them. My approach thus far has been: "Do you want to keep taking piano lessons and get good at it? If you do, please sit and practice, otherwise I won't be paying for you to take lessons". Thus far the answer has ranged from "I want to play, but I don't feel like practicing right this minute" to "Fine, I'll practice" to "I am excited to practice so I can get as good as that boy on YouTube".

But what if that backfires? What if one day I get "Fine, don't pay for me, I want to quit"? Sure, I can let them quit, but will they regret it later? My parents let me quit (when my good teacher left and I got a new one), and while I don't regret it per se, I wish they encouraged me to persevere for longer or maybe changed my teacher.

Practice is part of the daily routine, just as much as doing homework or brushing teeth. Hopefully it's more fun than those things some of the time, but it won't always be. You have decided that music will be part of their education and that's that.

Now... maybe one day they will develop an interest in another instrument or another way of making music and then you might think about letting them switch. Ditto if a different activity comes along that they love and you're ok with supporting at the expense of music. But those are conversations to have when looking forward to the next year as a whole, not just cos they don't feel like practicing today

Heather,
So you don't think there is anything wrong with pushing back if they decide to up and quit? They are also quite young, so maybe I can say something like "Sure, you can quit when you are X years old" when they are old enough to make a semi-informed decision?

Please don't bring money into this discussion. As in, "You kids either practice or we will have to stop paying for lessons." Clearly that is not an inducement to practice. Arguably kids might think they are aiding the family finances by quitting. Or else it sounds as if a parent is not committed to music education in the first place, but views it as a frill.

No, one's children simply must sit at the piano each day for x number of minutes, going through their music assignments. You might need to sit with them, even if you don't take an active role in the practice session (unless they want your help).

But as Heather says, daily piano practice needs to be part of the basic expected routine for a child. No different than school homework, and perhaps more enjoyable. You can help or encourage, but threats are a lousy idea.

I am not a piano teacher, but I have two girls taking piano lessons.

Here are some things that have been helpful when I sit beside my kids during practice:

- Work with them to isolate shorter sections to practice when they are just learning the notes.

- Record their playing, play it back and listen together, have them identify what they need to fix.

- On tricky passages, help them slow down their playing on just those few measures.

- Read the teacher note, and ask them what the teacher meant by XXX. Ask them to show the before and after scenario: how did she play it before, and how does the teacher want her to play now

- On tricky passages, get them to write down the fingering they'll use so they use it consistently, instead of changing every time they play. They might change it after a few days to something else, or teacher might change it during the lesson -- but at least get them to think about using consistent fingering.

- Sit quietly beside the piano just so there's some company to their practicing.

- Identify a short term goal achievable within 5-10 minutes. Help them create a bridge of short term goals to reach the goals for the week. My kids practice session tends to be longer when there are many specific smaller goals for the day.

I should probably rephrase... To the kids I put it more as "Why are we doing music lessons in the first place if you are not going to practice?" rather than a financial discussion, but your point is well taken. The reason why I have been using this tactic is because I know so many people who resent their parents' making them practice and who quit as soon as they got old enough. But then again, I know just as many who wish their parents made them. Can't win, can you 😁

Thank you! Very helpful. I am doing some of these things already and will try to implement the others. One other technique I've been using is to have them critique my playing and "help" me make it better. They really seem to like that and it motivates them to work on their own pieces.

Great tips MomofBeginners

I think the parent has to help the kid think in the long term instead of the short term. "Do you want to take piano lessons again next year" is a fair question. Letting them quit because they're having a grumpy practice day is not really fair.

As a parent I think we also have to know our kids. It's pretty clear to me which activities are really part of my daughter's being, and which are maybe fun for now but not so important a part of her. Even if difficulties appear in the important activities I don't let her quit because I want to teach her perseverance in the things that are important to her even when they pose difficulties. With less important activities, maybe they aren't worth the time/headaches; maybe we live up to the commitment we made for this season and then let it go after that.

(Just like she's seen Mama do when Mama has to get through the end of a contract and only THEN decide not to work that gig again!)

I wouldn't recommend that discussion either, as it gives the kid an opportunity to throw it back to you and say "I don't want to do music; you make me; I hate it."

It could be more effective to set up a system where practicing 5 days without a reminder earns a trip to get ice cream (or whatever the kid likes). Or for kids who can't conceive of 5 days a simple contingency like "When your practice is finished, we'll read your favorite book!" (or have a bubble bath or whatever fun thing you've got up your sleeve).

It's interesting because we as a family (rightly or wrongly) decided which activities the kids WILL be doing whether they like it or not. Extracurricular math is non-negotiable as well as one sport of their choice (the type of sport can change, whatever they like that year). I am not sure why piano is one of the "optional" activities for us. Likely because it was how we grew up, since people often carry their parenting and family values over from their parents. Even though my parents both played, and my husband's mom is a professional musician and a piano teacher.

I guess everyone is suggesting I have a choice: make it non-negotiable for a year, then reassess? Or maybe decide it's non-negotiable for X number of years? Maybe we will wait and see how it goes.

Yes, definitely! We have a whole reward system going. Some days I need to use it and some days they just go and practice because they want to. Some days it's at 6 am but I do not dare discourage that initiative

I would be one of the typical "non-musical parents" by your definition. I don't play any instrument to a high standard.

However, we are also one of the families that highly appreciate music, not a single day goes by in our house without enjoying music in some format. And when they play, I often their loyal audience.

Music learning is a feedback loop, the positive outcome will encourage learning, and negative outcome will discourage learning. The outcome is mostly likely mixed, it is important for parents to emphasis the positive parts and help to deal the frustrations caused by the negative feedback.

For us, the first couple of years were the most difficult, and the idea of quitting came up multiple times. But once they reached certain level of ability, when they can play better, learn faster, thing became a lot easier. It is like making a camp fire, it requires some efforts (and skills) to start the fire, but once fire is started, you just need to add fuel.

I still remember the how frustrated my son was when he spent the whole evening and couldn't play Old MacDonald Had A Farm in a way recognizable, he was grade 3. Now he is grade 6, he and some of his friends started spend time in the music room at recess time, he also started learning musics on his own, in addition to his assigned pieces.

As a nonmusical mom what I think is that actually being nonmusical probably works to my favor. The whole piano concept is novel so I had/have so much enthusiasm listening to him play. When my son learned to play the Whale Song in his Faber primer (first week) for example I felt like it was the most amazing thing ever. If I had been musical, I may have thought about the journey required until he could play something "good" and maybe because of that I would have gotten discouraged. I have no idea what type of work is required to get my son to the next "level" but he amazes me quite frequently- and by amazes me think of how easily I'm amazed if I thought "Whale Song" was amazing.