Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP11 vs. Roland V-Piano

Yes James, I really understand... it was a particular, the owner is a fanatic of Roland gear with very deep pockets!... and well i hope that the anti-troll police guys don't begin a hunting again... Thanks for talking!. Regards!.

Okay, I understand.



I believe that ultimately depends on how you choose to conduct yourself on the forum.

Kind regards,
James
x

I think fer has shown that he is not a troll and that he actually has a genuine enthusiasm for digital pianos

I actually quite like him but I can tell someone has been moaning to the mods about him and this is why they started a thread saying that they cannot ban people because u don't like what they say

Fer 1 the moaners 0

Hahahahahahah

I played both of them,
this is a matter of taste.

I can say that for the action - kawai felt for me more realistic.
it was hard decision because i also liked the sound of the v-piano.

I ended with MP11 and decided that I can always buy VSTs in the future for sounds, but the action is something i can't change.
(also the v-piano was out of my budget)

they are both amazing instrument

The same pianos. Over and over and over again. On every thread, whether relevant or not.

So yes:

Fer 1
Common sense and the vast majority of members 0

If Roland took their V-PIANO's plastic keyboard action with their beige coloured "pretend wood" side edges on hollow plastic white keys, and repackaged it into a silent MIDI controller 88-note keyboard product, with MIDI and USB, but no sounds, no top panel control buttons, slightly more compact case, etc. - equivalent to the Kawai VPC1, and priced about the same as VPC1 - would anyone buy it?! I'm guessing no. Everyone would pick the Kawai VPC1 in preference for it's obviously superior wooden action, and the genuine piano brand name KAWAI proudly displayed on it too. Let alone the even better GF action of MP11, the Kawai wins hands down for action. Nobody who's played both seriously prefers the Roland action.

What the Roland V-PIANO is, basically, is a highly desirable sound module - extremely flexible and customisable due to modelling, with very good sympathetic string resonance behaviour all round, and two decent Steinway and Bosendorfer main factory present models. Unfortunately, the only way to acquire it is to fork out £4K+ on an overly large, very heavy piece of grey plastic with a 2nd rate action that's barely a step up from the common Fatar actions on most digital pianos. Shame, because it certainly put me off ever buying a V-Piano every time I played it, even though I quite liked it's sounds and editability - compared to the market rivals at the time, several years ago now.
Being a Kawai MP8 owner, I would however gladly trade a couple of my Kawai MP8 factory piano sounds for the V-PIANO's "Vintage Grand" preset, if that were magically possible somehow, but alas one cannot. A shame.

What Roland should have done - and still could if they had any brains - is release a 1U or 2U rackmount module version of the V-PIANO, let's call it the V-PIANO MODULE which has the same professional XLR outs and S/PDIF coaxial digital outs the keyboard version has. I would buy that tomorrow...! At least up to £1299 or so I would...

If it cost a lot more than £1500 it would just be too expensive compared to a laptop + Pianoteq or other top software pianos, or even a Muse Receptor based system, when you consider everything else these can offer too...

Roland have already released the Integra-7 module, a 2U rack which costs £1149 and includes XLRs and S/PDIF digital out, which proves they don't think the market for modules is dead, which it isn't of course - ***BUT*** the Integra 7 is useless as a piano module because it doesn't have sympathetic string resonance. A shame.

If Roland are willing to put their Supernatural piano samples into a rack module, why can't they give it sympathetic resonance too? Are they deliberately trying to prevent it from being useful to serious pianists, hoping they'll just buy their 88 note keyboards instead?! Not with plastic keys I won't.
If they could only market a V-PIANO Module with similar rack format and price to the Integra-7, and maybe even throw in a few useful strings, brass, flute, Rhodes, Hammond B3 sounds alongside also, that would be a winner I reckon. It would go very nicely with a Kawai wooden action master keyboard.

Likewise, even Kawai could do with releasing a rackmount module with their best piano sounds, possibly with downloadable sounds like Clavia Nord pianos, as a nice endlessly renewable upgrade path for anyone who doesn't own this year's newest 88 note instrument. Perhaps that's why they don't...! But it hasn't hurt Clavia's business model. Clavia too should release a rack piano module version, and also stop painting everything bright red, because serious pianists have to work in 5 star hotels, posh weddings, funerals, smart corporate functions and look professional so black is the colour of choice if you have to take a digital piano to the venue..

Roland V-PIANO vs Kawai MP11 outright? Easy, Kawai because of better action and other features, inc pitch mod / wheels, other sounds, etc. MP11 piano samples are certainly good enough to not feel short-changed and their editability is good enough to get whatever you reasonably could want for your stage piano tone. The loss of the subtle benefits of the V-PIANO's modelled sound, although arguably quite realistic in some ways, is still not completely perfect, nor mated to an overwhelmingly convincing raw piano tone from top to bottom (V-PIANO bass still sounds thin and artificial), nor is the whole result of V-PIANO's output as good as the very best software pianos available in 2016, and ultimately that slight advantage alone it has over MP11 tone is not enough to outweigh all the MP11's other benefits put together, including MP11's very high quality pianos which may fit better in some contexts, even if they're not quite as "connected" to the player as the V-PIANO might be sometimes, it doesn't matter too much with the sound comparison because at the end of the day NEITHER of the two can outshine the best software pianos such as Ravenscroft or Vintage D or CFX, which serious players who care about subtleties to the n-th degree will probably be preferring to use whenever possible anyway. Kawai MP11 is certainly more user friendly for the laptop setup. Add price difference comparison and it's a no brainer.

I've played both. Owned V-Piano and Kawai MP10 and recently played CA-97.

I disagree with both these statements. The Roland's action is exceptionally agile. More so than the Kawai's in my opinion. Although the Kawai counters with a more tactile meatiness. But I could imagine plenty of people might prefer the Roland action; a minority perhaps but certainly not a tiny minority. And the V-Piano's sounds simply do not relate sonically to what they are intended to emulate. The 'Bosendorfer' (Vintage 2) is a joke. Vintage 1 is far more useable (although nothing like any kind of Steinway).

Hi EssBrace,
Fair enough, not everybody. I stand corrected - as says the man in orthopedic shoes!

"Exceptionally agile" means, I'm guessing, lighter to play or more springy? I found the same thing on some plastic actions myself and I whiz up and down like a madman, which is fun for a while, but I find it less satisfying. I can play just as fast on my heavier Kawai wooden action, or my acoustic, but it merely requires tiny bit more finger pressure to be at the same given volume perhaps, yet in having that systematic offset come naturally the increased touch level gives you a greater range of dynamic variation possible under your direct control. If I wasn't used to it, it might put me off, but it's like changing a tennis racquet or bowling bowl to a different weight. You get used to a certain feel and perform best with what you're most comfortable with.
There's also more satisfying momentum in a heavy fff chord than you ever get with a lightweight action.

I like the heavier actions because playing fast agile notes has never been a problem for me on digital pianos, per se, but rather controlling the fine shades of grey at the pp, ppp, pppp end of the dynamic range, where digital pianos can be very jerky and uneven, ruining my delicate chord inner voicing. I find that degree of control easier with the heavier wooden actions that have more dynamic weight in motion, and almost impossible on super light synth actions or Clavia Nord types. Roland V-PIANO and RD700, SX, GX, NX and RD800 are all slightly too light actions for my personal taste and I find their dynamic range is uneven consequently, slightly exponential rather than linear, in the mental force map I have acquired over 40 years of playing acoustic pianos.

If, as you say, the Roland V-PIANO sounds do not relate sonically to what you expect from a Steinway or Bosendorfer acoustic piano, I totally agree, but wonder if maybe the Roland action's dynamic response is skewing the experience slightly due to the lighter dynamic weight of the action (different to the static weight to hold the key down.) Did you ever try playing the V-Piano sounds from your Kawai MP10 keyboard over MIDI and see how that feels different connected to the same sound?

Well I would agree the Kawai actions are very good. Tactile and very smooth. Greater sense of inertia. Possibly more piano-like. But the Roland is more than just fast. It's just so articulate in my view. Not saying I prefer it but I do think some people would prefer it.

The V's sonic signature is what it is. I don't think the action skews it off. I found the action's relationship with the sound engine to be the single most successful element of the whole thing. Just my opinion of course!

I agree with EssBrace respect the very articulate and expressive finger to sound connection in the V, but I agree with propianist in the fact that the Kawai key action is in another league, even i prefer the Kawai plastic key actions over the Roland plastic ones; in this case Kawai RHII over Roland PHAIII and even the new IV. Regards.

even i prefer the Kawai plastic key actions over the BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA. Who gives a S___ WHAT the Heck you prefer. It never changes, until you buy your next keyboard then THAT will be the NEXT BEST FEELING keyboard that money can buy IMHO. Cheers!!!!!

Hi DonZon, welcome to this topic... in this forum we share our feelings and tastes. Please share with us your tastes and feelings about this topic and these key actions!. Cheers!.

I didn't know this forum is for sharing feelings and tastes.
I thought forums, in general, are for exchanging knowledge and experience, sharing news, discussing topic members share interest in. If I want to express my personal feelings regardless of context, I'd have posted it on Facebook. But that's maybe just me.
It sounds like I have been in the wrong place all along.

And you don't experience feelings, you don't consider "taste" as a form of knowledge and you have no interest in knowing what other people find interesting, pleasurable or hideous in an instrument you may own, play or buy?

(Apologies for continuing the metaphysical threadjack)

Hi Edb123, thanks for your kind words... time and my behavior has spoken for me and at the same time has clarified that point. I really have a genuine enthusiasm for digital pianos and i hope that i can share all my feelings, tastes and experiences with you and all the forum, for as long as possible. Regards!.