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Joined: Apr 2011
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Hi everyone, I have these 2 pianos at home and therefore having chance to play them side by side. I feel that the CA91 sound is more clearer and the metallic sound just like an acoustic piano when hitting the note hard. But moving to the CA65 (newer but lower level), the sound is so sticky, unclear when playing with pedal. Also, i recognized that the layer on ca65 is diffrent from ca91 (the layers change much more sharply in CA91 than the CA65), which i can say that the sound of CA65 when hitting a note hard is almost louder than soft hitting (added just a little bit metallic).
IMHO, i think those are differcent because the sample record on CA91 is more reallistic than CA65; also the CA91 have a nice soundboard which create a true resonance, deep bass which is powerful but clearer than such speaker system in CA65
However, the control buttons on CA91 is quite annoying when user often accidently hit those buttons while playing and ruin the mood. I decide to sell one of them but its hard to consider the new technologies(USB drive, key, control board,...) ease of using CA65 to the nice sound on 7-year-older CA91.
Anyone tried those models have any ideas???
Sorry for my terrible English that i cant describe things clearer.
Last edited by cuchuoi; 05/25/16 05:50 AM.
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cuchuoi, thank you for sharing your thoughts. It should be noted that the CA91 and CA65 utilise very different tone generators and samples. The CA91 features the older 'Harmonic Imaging' tone generator without 88-key sampling. The CA65 features the latest 'Harmonic Imaging XL' tone generator with 88-key sampling (those samples were recorded especially for 88-key sampling, so the piano tone will also be very different), which is far more expressive, higher quality, and modern than the CA91 tone...even if you may prefer the tonal character of the CA91 itself more. In your position, I would consider selling both models and upgrading to the CA97. Cheers, James x
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Actually if i get a good deal, i will sell both for the CA9500GP. By the way, i wonder the main difference of CA9500GP 18 timbre vs 16 on CA95. What is "timbre" and is that variety really noticeable?
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cuchuoi, the CA9500GP is a special version of the CA95 prepared for a Japanese musical instrument chain store.
Are you based in Japan?
I will still recommend the CA97 over the CA95.
Kind regards, James x
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Im not in Japan but in my country, used digital pianos from Japan are quite affordable (~1/4 new price).
Would u please explain more about the sample recorded on Kawai DPs? For example the sample on concert grand 2, studio 2, bright 2, mellow 2,... is processed from concert grand 1 or recoreded from different tuned piano?
Also, is the "concert grand" 1 more progressive than "concert grand 2"? I did hear that someone in this forum said that Concert grand 1 is UPHI while concert grand 2 is just PHI... Like other brand also focus on 1 piano sound than the other.
Last edited by cuchuoi; 05/26/16 12:29 AM.
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cuchuoi, this really depends on the model in question.
The CA9500GP is based on the CA95, and therefore shares the same tone generator/sound technology, however I gather there are additional piano sounds as this is a special edition Japan-only model. Note that the CA9500GP control panel and LCD is also written/shown in Japanese - this may be a factor if you cannot read Japanese text.
I hope this helps.
Kind regards, James x
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The LCD can be changed to english but the panel needs some sticky label on it . Actually I like the sound of concert grand 2 in most songs but i think that it is less progressive than the grand 1 (in terms of sample progressing, technology,...)
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Well, both models offer a good selection of acoustic piano sounds, so please feel free to use the sound that you feel matches a particular piece of music, or that you simply enjoy the most.
Kind regards, James x
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Joined: May 2016
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I presently own two Kawai CA-15 and CA-91, so I guess the comparison is somehow similar. What strikes me is the big difference in touch. The RM3 Grand II of the CA-15 is much heavier than the CA-91. I like that very much as it gives me better control in polyphony. Anyhow, the CA-91 feels much more like a Grand with the heavier weight in the lower (bass) notes. The CA-15 is more equally weighted over all notes and feels more like a acoustic upright. 1) Does anyone share that impression? 2) Should/can I change the setup (virtual technician?) to have wheighted response more like a Grand? For the sound: The sound of the CA-15 is a big improvement to the CA-91 even without the soundboard. I am now thinking about selling my Kawais to get the CA-97. So the question is, compared to the CA-15, is the 97s keyboard as heavy as and is it balanced like a Grand (91) or like an upright (15)? I know, I have to test for myself, but I would like to hear some experiences/impressions of others as well. BTW, when will the new CA-98 (???) be announced?
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Schuberto, welcome to the forum, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I personally do not believe that the 'RM3 Grand II' action feels like an upright. The action is intended to feel like a grand, however perhaps it is a little heavier than the 'AWA Grand Pro II' action found in the CA91 - these things can be quite subjective.
The 'Grand Feel II' action utilised by the CA97 may feel a little lighter than the 'RM3 Grand II' action of the CA15 due to the longer key sticks and longer key pivot, plus there are also graded counterweights attached to each key. These features were developed to ensure the action feels as close to a concert grand piano as possible.
As you note, it's essential to play-test these instrument for yourself to truly get a feel for how it plays and sounds.
As for the possibility of a CA98 in the near future, I believe the CA97/CA67 will remain the current generation Concert Artist models for a good while yet.
I hope this helps.
Kind regards, James x
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Dear James,
thanks for your welcome and your insights.
I feel a big difference in how the action is graded from low keys (should be heavier) to the highs. In the CA-15 the bass notes are too light for a Grand IMHO. Maybe it's a difference between the CA-1X and the CA-9X? If the mechanical action on the GF II is lighter than the RM3 Grand II (of the CA-15) then that might be a disadvantage to my taste. Maybe the CA-95 becomes an option. Is there a significant action difference between the CA-15 and the CA-95/65???
Anyhow, I will go to a store and test the CA-17/67/97 myself.
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Hello Shuberto, Is there a significant action difference between the CA-15 and the CA-95/65??? Yes, I would say so. The 'Grand Feel' keyboard action utilised by the CA95/CA65 features the same longer keys and longer pivot of the 'Grand Feel II' action utilised by the CA97/CA67. A similar comparison could also be made for the VPC1 ('RM3 Grand II') and MP11 ('Grand Feel'), with those who have played both boards commenting that the VPC1 feels a little heavier than the MP11. Of course, these things are very subjective, so I would naturally recommend anyone considering these instruments to try to play-test them thoroughly before making any kind of purchasing decision. Kind regards, James x
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@James
Thanks for the info. I will have to test this.
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Schuberto, I recently uploaded some action sample images here following a request from another member - perhaps they may be of interest to you? Kind regards, James x
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Schuberto, I recently uploaded some action sample images here following a request from another member - perhaps they may be of interest to you? Kind regards, James x Although I knew them before, nice to have the direct comparison. Thanks. Kind regards, Schuberto
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I feel that the CA91 sound is more clearer and the metallic sound just like an acoustic piano when hitting the note hard. But moving to the CA65 (newer but lower level), the sound is so sticky, unclear when playing with pedal.
Interesting observation. I have been test driving the CA-97 for quite a bit to replace my aged Yamaha P-140, and the interesting thing I noticed that I felt the bass got a lot more muddy in CA97 than in my P140 when I started to play with pedal. I've also had a similar issue with Pianoteq, and regardless of its realism, mostly pick the internal sound of P140 when playing because it sounds really "clear". But what is even more interesting, there is a similar muddiness to my playing on a real Yamaha grand -- I think the 10 year old digital Yamaha is just "easy", because the simple sound generation does not have the richness, and definitely not the sustain, of a real instrument. Newer Kawais are probably just nearer to the real deal, so I have difficulty in controlling the sound (I've only been playing 1.5 years so no wonder .
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I also have a P155 and the is a bit warmer (mellow) than kawai's. The bass is also not too muddy because it only has 2 12cm-oval-speakers. How ever I can really feel the vibration and mettallic resonace of CA91 which is quite real. But the bass of the CA65 is even more muddy, which IMHO due to the quality of speaker system. Also with some closing notes of CA65, I hardly feel the different between a note and the following one. Also the concert grand 2, I got some note that striking sound is louder than the main sound of the note which did not exist in grand 1. Nice looking CA65 but how sad the sound is.
Last edited by cuchuoi; 05/30/16 06:30 AM.
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Hello cuchuoi, Also with some closing notes of CA65, I hardly feel the different between a note and the following one. I'm afraid I do not understand this point. Nice looking CA65 but how sad the sound is. In my opinion the CA65 piano sounds are superior to the older CA91 sounds. However, I appreciate that these things are highly subjective, so if you prefer the CA91 sounds for whatever reason, that's perfectly fine. Kind regards, James x
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Hello cuchuoi, Also with some closing notes of CA65, I hardly feel the different between a note and the following one. I'm afraid I do not understand this point. For example when i play the note G4 rightafter hitting the note F4#, it almost doesnt sing. Actually, not my taste only but my wife and my pianist friend also admited that.
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I'm sorry, I still don't understand.
But it's okay - if you prefer the CA91 sound to the CA65 sound, I do not wish to convince you otherwise.
Kind regards, James x
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