Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Have you ever seen a grand shipped flat/belly down?

I was very excited to go to the airport to receive the the Phoenix C212 I purchased from Hurstwood Farms a few months ago.

My first warning should have been that Cheddy and the other movers didn't think the only enormous crate at the terminal was a piano crate. Whoever crated my piano, did so belly down, and it seems that crating a 7 foot grand so that almost all of it's weight is on that centrally located board behind they lyre is not good practice. They didn't even tie down the hammers. Has anyone else ever heard of shipping a piano this way?

The piano was obviously bouncing around inside the crate and we photographed 16 or 18 areas where the poly was scratched, cracked, or crushed. There's also cracked wood at the back edge of one of the beams under the rim at the edges of the keybed, and the other, on the bass side, is not flush to the base of the keybed. There's a gap. The fall board won't close, the action is not right, the dampers don't drop, and the lyre doesn't appear to mount quite right. The movers were very hesitant to try and fix anything that was out of alignment, so I told them to leave it alone, and we'd contact Hurstwood Farms. I think we'll need a tech to see if the piano case was actually deformed.

So, after 4 months, somebody mis-crated our piano and did it some major damage. I have absolute faith that Richard and Hurstwood Farms will find a way to make this right. We took pictures to document the damage happened before we moved it out of the air terminal, and we actually have the crate here so we can prove it was crated incorrectly. Humorously, the crate itself was in prefect condition.

Given the number of tragedies we've all read about recently in Florida and elsewhere, I really shouldn't complain too much that a piano got damaged, but still, after 4 months of waiting, this is so disappointing, and I have no idea what we should do, other than wait to hear from Hurstwood Farms.

Wow, that is disappointing. I hope it gets quickly resolved to your satisfaction.

I'm so sorry to hear this - unfortunately it sounds serious.
Hopefully, those at fault will take responsibility and you will be made whole in a timely manner.

My Grotrian Concert was shipped by air horizontally. Apparently is is the best way. It arrived in perfect condition, with the tuning perfect.

Assuming the crate was properly made, I have to conclude your piano was dropped during shipping.

My Bluthner was sent by truck, not by air. The haulage company by mistake sent a flat back truck and were going to strap it down flat. Melvin Besbrode, of Besbrode pianos, sent them away with a flea in their ear and made them come back with a box van in which it was packed upright. Had he not insisted, I suppose I might have been looking at similar problems.

Thank you, again, Melvin!

I'm so sorry, I would be terribly upset as well. Hope they take good care of you and get everything resolved.

If someone did it successfully with your Grotrian, maybe they mounted the piano to the crate at the attachment points for the legs and built the case stiff enough to prevent the piano from moving in the case or flexing? I can see that working, but I did look into it and flat is definitely not the preferred method for the piano. Maybe it is for the forklift guys though.

In my case, they put the piano on a flat base so all the weight of the piano was on the trap work attachment point, not on the areas that normally support the weight of the piano. Seeing how scratched up it got, it was also able to shift around in the case. They also didn't tie down the action.

I'm sure this couldn't have been done by someone who knew what they were doing. Wish it had been.

Todd

I was led to believe that they always air-freighted their pianos flat. I can't remember the details, but someone at the time said there were far less stresses flat in a crate than on its side. I didn't see it at the airport, it was unloaded and after quarantine cleared it, it went to a warehouse, uncrated and direct to my home. It was delivered home standing on its side, as the local carriers couldn't handle it still flat (and my doors aren't that wide!!).

I'd suspect, as someone said above that it was dropped. Maybe someone turned it on its side after crating? Or a rough flight? Insurance should cover whatever happened with either repairs or a replacement.

Absolutely terrible. I feel so bad for you and can only hope the dealer does everything to make things right as quickly as possible. I can completely understand the disappointment you are going through.

Thanks Grandman.
It came from Hurstwood Farms, so I have faith.
I'll just have to have patience too.

Ed, Sorry I didn't see your post. It's possible, but there's no single area of major cosmetic damage to the piano and the crate was fine. Just lots of small areas where it got scratched sliding around in the crate, some crushed/cracked poly from stress or pressurem and those damaged beams under the side arms. I don't know what those are called. But maybe it was dropped, because something deformed it enough that the fallboard wouldn't close without rub. On thing I know, is that the beams under the crate that allow a forklift to get under it, and the crate itself, would have been a lot stiffer if the piano was crated on it's side. Forklift forks aren't long enough to reach across the entire crate, so it's likely that each time the crate was moved, it flexed the box and maybe the piano inside it. As a tech, would you feel it's safe to put the entire weight of a piano on the bottom of the trapwork?

Toddler2
I have never seen a piano shipped horizontal. I would also not recommend it to anyone. Crate construction would be much more difficult. You would have to start with the piano placed on the straight side and then lay it down on the floor after attaching the crate base to the leg mounting points as you suggest. And then make the rest of the crate around that.

The trapwork should never have any forces from moving applied to them. Are you sure the crate your piano came in was intended to be moved flat? Maybe post some pictures of the crate if you can.

Hi Ed,

I'm 100% certain. The bass side you'd normally stand it on was only padded with an inch of styrofoam, and was not reinforced. It was just a couple of pieces of plywood.

The down side/belly side of the crate was elevated/reinforced with beams to allow a forklift to pick it up that way. The crate also had markings pointing up to show which side went up. They indicated quite clearly the lid side went up.

Had they stood up the crate with the bass side down, there would have been no way move it. It was just a 1/2 or so of plywood there. The bottom was plywood with I believe 3 beams running across it, parallel to the keyboard. So the forks would be under the belly.

I'm not going to be home for a week, but can easily take pictures once I get there. I guess it's a good thing we saved the crate.

Todd

You may need to file a damage claim with the freight company. They will send out an inspector. I can't imagine a piano dealer would pack a grand piano flat in a crate. A freight forwarder could have, though.

Certainly bass side down is the standard of the industry for intra-city non-crated moves. I haven't seen anyone do anything extra to secure the action parts during a move, and the hammers could readily swing in the BSD position. My Knabe has a permanent bar that keeps the keysticks from rising from the balance rail, I believe that's to keep them in place during a move.

I have seen many many pianos shipped from Europe. None have ever arrived in anything but a crate with the piano sitting on its side on the bass side of the rim. I suspect that the original crate was dropped and the shipper recrated in this fashion.

No manufacturer that I have ever seen would ship like this. And pianos that are shipped from Europe have a small light rail that is tied to the hammers to keep them from bouncing. All new pianos are shipped this way and dealers all know to do this. You don't see this much on local moving but a crated piano shipped internationally should have a tied down action. My .02.

I've spoken to the builder, and he said shipping horizontally isn't uncommon. I'm going to stop trying to guess what happened, because the bottom line is, we can't know. The dealer is looking into how they can make it right, so disappointing as this is, I'm not worried. I actually never was worried it wouldn't be made right. I bought it from Hurstwood Farms and Richard Dain. My task now is simply to be patient.
Todd

Hi,
So thought I'd update this just because Hurstwood Farms deserves it.
The insurance company is sending someone to pick up the piano next week, and Richard is working on the replacement for this one.
So we have to wait, but everything is being made right.
(Thanks Richard)
Todd

Awesome news! Glad to hear it.

Gosh, how disappointing. Well, when that new piano arrives and unpacks as it should it'll sound marvelous. It's a keeper of a story. My guess, meanwhile, is there are people in the middle who are hearing something loud, clear, and very succinctly from Hurstwood Farms