Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards No line-in input: recording question

I want to record from digital piano to computer, and I have several laptops, but unfortunately none of them has a line-in input. Buying an external USB sound card appears to be the best solution.

Now I've been browsing on Amazon.de, and these are some options:

1.) https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Soundkart...=1-7&keywords=externe+usb+soundkarte

2.) https://www.amazon.de/LogiLink-Dolb...=1-9&keywords=externe+usb+soundkarte

3.) https://www.amazon.de/Sweex-SC016-7...1-24&keywords=externe+usb+soundkarte

Can anyone recommend one of these, or should I be looking for a different product? I'm unsure what I should be looking for. For example, are there different kinds of line-in inputs, such as mono and stereo? If so, I'd need a stereo input, but not all of these products have a detailed description, so I really don't know what to choose.

My DP only has a phones output, so I'd be recording phones to line-in, which is fine by me, as I've heard the results and see no issues.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Hi Stephano

Seems to me Amazon in pointing you in the wrong category of audio cards.
You will be better off with a semi-pro audio card from the likes of Tascam, ESI, M-audio, Steinberg, Lexicon, Focusrite, Edirol etc.
These semi-pro audio cards will give you low latency and decent quality of recording and playback for the price.
>> Lexicon Alpha, Steinberg UR12, M-audio M-track mkii etc.

On the subject of connections; since your DP only has a phones out, this gives you a stereo signal on a single (mini)jack. Look for a cable that transfers this into two mono 6,35 mm jacks. So basically what you need is called a 'Y-cable' = 1 connector on one side, 2 connectors on the other side.

To explain this in detail:
Typically, one of the output jacks will be labelled "L" (left signal - black color), and the other will be labelled "R" (Right signal - red color.) They are mono jacks or TS jacks and have 2 seperate metal rings ('tip' and 'sleeve'). The jack that connects your DP is a stereo or TRS jack and has 3 seperate metal rings ('tip', 'ring' and 'sleeve'); hence the TRS and TS abbreviations. (The 'sleeve' isn't really a ring, it's more of a long and thin cilinder.)
>> So the jack that you connect to the piano has 3 metal rings (TRS), and both jacks on the other side that go into your sound card each have 2 rings (TS). You can then connect these to the appointed 6,35mm jack inputs of your sound card.

Hope this was clear and helpful.

Good luck!
Emanuel

Thanks for your input, Emanuel, but I have to admit that I'm now more confused than ever.

I intended to use this cable:

http://www.thomann.de/de/cordial_cfs_3_ww.htm?ref=search_rslt_Cordial+CFS+miniklinkenkabel_188560_0

With this adapter/connector:

http://www.thomann.de/de/the_tbone_headphone_adapter.htm?ref=search_rslt_6%2C3+adapter_300470_1

As was suggested to me in this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2546365/Question_about_recording_with_.html

Why is that wrong? I don't understand.

No worries.
Thing is that most dedicated audio cards have better connectors than that fragile 3.5mm minijack.
Because I would advise you to go for a different type of audio card, the cable needs to be different.
Am I right in understanding that your DP has a 6.35mm stereo jack output?
In that case, go with a cable like this:
http://www.thomann.de/be/cordial_cfy_09_vpp.htm

Now I understand better.

Yes, the DP's phones output is 6.35mm stereo.

Thank you for the link! Is there any difference between that cable and this one: http://www.thomann.de/de/the_sssnake_sk3153_insertkabel.htm

Except for the length I mean? In any case I will need something 3 meters in length.

My other question is, would you recommend any soundcards from the Thomann website?

I really appreciate your help.

You're welcome!

The jack connectors of cheaper cables tend to 'not really' fit, so try to avoid these as they will stress the fragile surface-mount connectors of your soundcard/DP. (Cordial is a decent brand, Sssnake typically manufactures cheap products so you might want to avoid these.)

This is the 3meter Cordial cable (and they also have 6m)
http://www.thomann.de/be/cordial_cfy_3_vpp.htm

Soundcard depends on your budget, and on what other things you would expect from it. For example; you might need a (seperate) microphone input, or seperate stereo studio speaker outputs? .. What is your setup? And are you using USB2 or 3?

I'm pretty sure all my laptops have USB 2. Would it be a problem if it's USB 3?

No microphone input needed.

No separate speaker outputs needed. I'll be able to hear the sound on the laptop while my DP's speakers will be silent, correct?

Budget... don't know what to tell you. I didn't intend to spend much because I thought those soundcards on Amazon would be okay. But now your advice has changed things and I probably need to increase the budget. Is there anything for 50 or 60 Euros on Thomann which would be a good choice?

I'd strongly suggest reserving a higher budget for an audio card. That being said, the Lexicon Alpha will do an ok job given it's price tag. Not sure if this will output to your laptop speakers though, I believe you need to use the output on the card itself.

No you are right, USB 2 or 3 won't really matter.

Are you talking about this one:

http://www.thomann.de/de/lexicon_alpha_studio.htm?glp=1&gclid=CMCKqoCjw80CFUefGwodUPYL8A

And speaking about budget, which more expensive ones on Thomann would you recommend and why?

The whole time I assumed that when using a program like Audacity to record, I'd be able to hear the sound through the laptop. If not, what would be the simplest method to hear myself?

You could go for a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, or Steinberg UR22.
Why? Just read some of the reviews.
Cheap = cheap, there's no way around it.

About hearing the sound through the laptop; I'm just not sure how this works because I'm not a laptop user. Somebody else needs to chime in - or ask the guys at Thomann to make sure.

Sorry, I have almost zero experience recording from a DP, which is why I'm asking all these questions. You've been really helpful!

Is the link I posted in my previous post the product you said would be okay? Please let me know.

And you also mentioned Steinberg UR22. How much worse is the UR12?

Keep in mind that I don't really require superb recording quality. What you hear in those YouTube demos that advertise digital pianos is the quality I'm going for.

The UR12 has one input for a microphone and another one for an instrument like a guitar. These inputs are not made for a digital piano.

Yes that's the one. I am worried about built quality though (monitor switch and usb socket - as read in some reviews on Amazon etc.) and also worried about high latency. But it's only € 51 so..

Yes exactly, Frédéric has it right; don't go for the UR12.

High latency meaning I play a note and hear it a bit later? That'd be very annoying.

If I bought one of those inexpensive external soundcards on Amazon (not audio interfaces but just cards with line-in input) and used the cable I mentioned earlier in the thread, do you think there'd still be latency issues?

And if I had a laptop with line-in, would you still recommend buying an audio interface for recording?

I have zero experience with this, and apologize if my questions are annoying you. I'm just trying to understand why audio interfaces are better than a regular line-in input when it comes to recording from a DP.

On the windows side the Audio Interfaces come with a different set of drivers to
run the hardware. Built-in hardware will use the Windows Device protocol. Mili-second delay in the 20-50ms. Fine for just playing audio back. For playing
you want the ms delay under 10ms

Focusrite, Tascam, MOTU etc will have ASIO drivers that deliver this lower latency.

I use my card with Windows drivers and my DAW repports 3.2ms in, 7.1ms out. But I use an exclusive mode which bypass the Windows mixer.

With a shared mode I have 10ms and 28ms !

Yes; in both cases you would have too much latency. As EPW pointed out the latency should be under 10 ms (under 7ms really) and that's one of the reasons to have a dedicated semi-pro audio card.

@Frédéric; so do you mean that using 'shared mode' allows you to use your laptop built-in speakers?

So even a laptop with line-in would have latency? Wow.

I'm thinking if the following would solve the latency issue: First recording right onto the digital piano's internal memory, and then playing back the audio later while recording onto the laptop. I mean latency would still be present while recording, but it wouldn't be relevant anymore.

BTW, is there a way to find out how big the latency is on the Lexicon Alpha?

And thank you all for the input.

1. Latency matters only when you listen to piano sounds coming from the computer as you play.

2. If you're just playing back a recording, latency doesn't matter.

3. If you're just recording a piano performance (listening to the piano, not the computer), then latency doesn't matter.

I believe you are in situation #3. So, latency doesn't matter.

As for requiring a line input on the laptop ... you don't need one. A microphone input is just fine.

You need simply reduce the input signal level (because that mic input expects a very weak signal from a microphone, but it will be getting a strong signal from your piano). But try it anyway. Some equipment is claimed to auto-sense the levels.

Hi MacMacMac,


Actually, #1 would be my preferred option, so I'd go for #3 only if #1 is difficult to pull off. It is surprising to me that a line-in input on the laptop would have latency, and if so, then I think it would also apply to the microphone input you mentioned.

Either way it would appear that #3 is the only solution unless one buys a more expensive audio interface with low latency. Then again I have no information how good/bad the latency is on the Lexicon Alpha, so I don't know if I could tolerate it.


I don't think I can listen to the piano if I'm using the phones output, as it automatically turns the internal speakers silent. If there was a way to also have sound coming from the speakers, I wouldn't need to worry about the latency issue.


This is very interesting, as I've heard in the past that a mic input absolutely cannot work. Supposedly the result would be bad audio quality. Now, by reducing the input level do you mean simply lowering the volume on the source (the piano), or adjusting some settings on the computer?

I also take it you don't recommend an audio interface at all in my case?

Much appreciated.