Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Unofficial Kawai ES8 Comments/Reviews Thread

Good to hear, thank you for the update A1A!

Cheers,
James
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After two decades without a piano and only having a simple Roland keyboard to play on I was looking to buy a piano again. I really missed the touch response and sound of a real piano. Also, since the Roland unit has just 61 keys, playing specific pieces was quite difficult, which did not help in having fun playing.

Because of placement in the attic and the need to be able to move the instrument sometimes, I decided to go for a digital piano, slab type. I thought that this would give me the best options in regards to portability and low maintenance. I limited my search to current models of Kawai, Roland and Yamaha. The shop I wanted to visit for play-testing had all those models (and more!) in the showroom, so I could play them side by side (I also tried several uprights, for comparison). After several hours of playing various models I felt that the Kawai ES8 was the one for me. Coming back to the shop a week or two later, this still remained my favorite choice by far. The sounds of the Shigeru Kawai EX and SK-5 are "music to my ears". So now I am the proud owner of an ES8 with optional HM-4 stand.

Here are some of the differences I found when playing the various models, along with some remarks on the instrument after buying.

The touch of the ES8 feels more natural to me than the Roland FP50, FP80 and Yamaha P255. When pressing the keys on the Roland, it first feels OK but when I get to the bottom, it feels bottoming out to hard for me, like I am striking on wood. The Yamaha felt quite consistent but was to "mushy" for me. With the ES8, at first I did not like the little bounce of the keys after letting go. But after 15 minutes playing, I was already used to it. There was also an ES7 in the store and I found it hard to feel the difference between RHII and RHIII action. I tried the Kawai VPC1 too, just for reference of the keys, and that played lighter (nicer) than the ES8. But since I wanted an instrument with built-in speakers and not having to hook it up to a computer, the VPC1 was no option for me now.

The controls of both Roland’s had me puzzled for a while: I had to get a salesman to explain to me how to switch to another voice, or change settings. With the Yamaha and Kawai I could easily find my way the first time I used them. Even with settings in submenu's, like changing the volume of the metronome, it was easy to do. Kudos to the designers of the menu!

The packaging of both ES8 and HM-4 stand is quite good, they were firmly packed in cardboard. I picked up these large boxes from the store after buying but I would not have hesitated to have them shipped to me, they seemed that sturdy to me. I did estimate the weight wrong: being a slab type, I expected that I would be able to lift the piano easily by myself but I was able to manage it barely. When moving it upstairs at home I had to get a pair of helping hands to do so safely.

The stand is solid and makes the piano look good. When assembling the unit I found a small defect where I could not screw one of the sides of the stand to the central plank: the bolt would not fit in the gap. I had to unscrew the metal part where the bolt needed to go and slide it a bit down before I could screw it back together. I had expected that it would fit without adjusting. But I am glad that the central plank allowed for this adjustment.

I had planned to place the piano against the wall. I found out after buying that this is not possible: the music rest extends over the back of the unit so the piano is now 15 centimeters from the wall in order to be able to place sheet music. Another issue that prevents placing the piano against the wall (without the music rest) are the connectors of the power adapter and the damper pedal: they protrude a few centimeters from the back. For the power adapter a better option would have been to make a recess in the back for it. Or to have the connector on the bottom. I think the issue with the pedal connector can be overcome by using the F-301 with the HM-4 stand because then you can connect its pedals to the bottom of the ES8. What I would like to remark about the pedal that comes with the unit: it is the classical design that I like, in contrast to the flat "switch-type" that the Yamaha P255 uses. It also does not slide on my marmoleum floor and it has enough vertical movement to feel real.

What struck me as odd is that there was no cover included. I had to order the DC88-L to protect the unit from dust.

After not playing properly for so long I now take my time to work on proper technique. The only options I currently use are the metronome and selecting a different piano sounds. There are so much more options to explore and use but I'll start with those when my basics are on a decent level again.

Youll enjoy that for some time. You didnt buy from a shop in the N of England, did you?

No, I bought it at a shop in The Netherlands.

Hi hermessy and congratulations for your excellent purchase...! I really hope that you enjoy your ES8 for a long time!. I agree on your assessment and also share your tastes, in my case i chose the Kawai MP7 over its competitors by a wide margin and my search was focused on getting the best key action available. I tried the Kawai MP7 and CN25, Roland FP50, FP80, RD700nx and RD800, from Yamaha the P255 and CP4 and a Casio PX5s. In first place I dismissed the FP50 (IMHO Ivory-G is a crappy action and not in the same league), the Casio PX5s was Ok but not at the same level. Yamaha P255 was firm but mushy and CP4 was very organic and responsive but a slightly inferior than the Kawais for the price. All high end Roland models were similar in touch, Ivory-S, PHAIII and PHAIV Concert, the differences was the noisy key action, thumping keys and the hard bottoming out in Ivory-S and PHAIII, the PHAIV was really better in these aspects but a more bouncy than the previous old generation and the key upweight was a bit fatiguing from my hands and wrists. Finally Kawai CN35 with the RHIII (same ES8 key action), was a bit heavier than the Roland key actions and even a bit heavier than the RHII in the MP7 but was a bit bouncy compared with the RHII and the bouncy was more similar to the PHAIV in RD800 but the overall feeling in RHIII is more similar to the RHII... in summary, the RHII was the more solid, firm and quieter key action in that bunch and it is also the perfect balance in finger to sound connection and key downweight and upweight respect the others; was the faster key action (for quicker key repetitions) than the others except the RHIII... for these reasons, IMHO the RHII is the best hollow plastic key action available in the market today and the RHIII is the best plastic key action with the counterweights available today in the market. Undoubtedly, Kawai ES8 and ES7 are the unbeatable winners. Regards!.

Hello hermessey, welcome to the forum.

Thank you very much for sharing your positive feedback about the ES8. I will be sure to pass on your comments to the product development team.

Kind regards,
James
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Good idea in your case ColoRodney, however I have the ivory white model.. hmnn.. maybe there's a fingernail polish that would be suitable in my case. Gee, it'll be tough to lug the ES8 over to the make-up department at the store, lol.. wait, I am saved, I can just take the note rack! Ha ha ha

Upon further thinking this only makes it louder when you layer the very same grands with each other.. but if you need the extra volume boost.. this'll do the trick ;-)

Also on the Kawai ES8 I LOVE layering the SK with the SK-5, the latter adding so much "wood" (to my ears). So WARM & FULL!

Also layering the EX with the SK, sounds just KILLER!

And layering the Pop Grand with the Pop Grand 2, or the Pop with the Upright... so "Supertrampy" bright & "buzzy"... YAY !!

What a SUPER digital piano.. MANY kudos to Kawai ;-)

I had an odd encounter with the Kawai ES8. I Listened through the headphones and the ES8 sounded Wonderful. I also listened to Pianoteq from my computer into the ES8 with headphones pluged into the ES8. They both sounded excellent.
Then a strange thing happened. I listened to the ES8 internal pianos through the ES8 speakers and then Pianoteg pluged into the ES8 through the ES8's speakers.
The internal SK and EX and all the other pianos sounded MUCH thinner than Pianoteq through the ES8's speakers.
??
Could someone out there in Pianoworld try the same thing and post the results?

It's just a volume / EQ setting thing brooster.

I find pianoteq far thinner sounding than any dp I used it with. So far, Dgxs and an fp50

Sounds fine recording, like youre listening to a piano not playing it. .

Initial perceptions of the ES-8:

I have been waiting nearly a year for the local dealer to get an ES-8 in stock so that I could try it out. Yesterday, I finally had the opportunity.

The dealer (finally) has a full line of Kawai digitals but, surprisingly, most of them are not plugged in and they are not ready to play. But I called ahead of time so the ES-8 was ready to go for me. I would have liked to have tried and compared it with the MP-11 and MP-7. There was also a brand new CS-11 that I would have loved to try out. I carried along my Sennheiser HD 598 headphones to use for testing, and I did not try to evaluate the speaker system of the ES-8 at all.

Overall, I give the ES-8 an 8 out of 10. The RH3 action was moderate, neither light nor heavy. And the action was very quick, responsive, and dynamically expressive. The more that I played it the better I liked it, and I give Kawai full marks for the action.

I was disappointed, however, with the latest and greatest internal piano voices. I tried the Kawai EX, SK grand, and SK-5 as well as many of the other voices. I tried layering a few of them. At times I was quite immersed in the listening and the voice/s were fairly authentic. At other times, I was put off by a feeling of artificiality. To my surprise, I liked the SK Grand voice the best.

Please be aware that I am comparing these internal voices with the best of the software VST pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory II American D, Ravenscroft, and Galaxy Vintage D pianos. I would score these five software pianos as follows:

Garritan CFX: 9 (Very authentic and satisfying sound but with some serious pedaling issues, weak dynamics)
Ivory II Steinway German D: 8.5 (lacking in dynamics, a little sterile, but often pleasing)
Ivory II American D Steinway: 8 (Fairly convincing with some Steinway tonal character but dynamics are weak. Most people like the American D the best of the Ivory II products so I am in the minority here.)
Ravenscroft: 7.5 (good for jazz, clear and piercing sound)
Galaxy Vintage D: 7.5 (responsive, shows some tonal character, fun to play, but the overall dynamics and tone production are not as satisfying as I would like.)

And comparing the ES-8 sounds:

Kawai ES-8: 7. A preliminary rating only. The best voice, for me, was the SK Grand. Unfortunately the sound was artificial at times, to my ear. The wonderful action of the ES-8 almost made up for it, however, and I am wondering if I would either get used to the sound or find some other voice or combination of voices that was more satisfying. I played the ES-8 for about 45 minutes, a reasonable sampling, but I know full well that I need to test a product like this for weeks, at home, before I have what I would consider to be a fair rating.

AZ_Astro, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Kind regards,
James
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Also, one's mood & amount of rest, thoughts etc affect one's perception at the time of play (not to mention alcohol etc!). At best, be fully rested & in a good mood when judging sounds. I find the Kawai ES8 sounds incredibly realistic & like it better than my real Baldwin Acrosonic, something I thought I'd never be saying comparing real pianos to digitals! Also, in my opinion, good speakers beat headphones EVERY time, as headphones move less air!

Also, with headphones your ears listen to a static, "fixed in one catching position" location, whereas opposed to reality the sound is bouncing off, being absorbed etc of/by objects & in addition no-one keeps their head stiffly fixed in one "listening position" so you have variety of perceived sound so in addition to speakers moving more air as implied above I prefer good speakers! Also to ponder.. the crinkly weird shape of the physical ears play a role too when unobstructed... quite a science.

Yes, binaural positional output through headphones is one thing, but I'm really waiting for 3d head tracking audio Even fairly inexpensive GearVR MEMS gyros/accelerometers are proven to provide accurate and precise real-time position and orientation information. The idea being, you should be able to perceive the sound coming from directly in front of you (or from any other determined reference) no matter how you move your head.

Interesting, but who wants to have it only come from the front (or from any other determined reference) no matter how you move your head... that is unnatural.

What is interesting about binaural + head tracking is the the object making the noise (piano) will appear to be in the same position even if we do twist our head around. This is extremely realistic for headphone listening: not only will the sound come from outside our head (binaural) but it will also stay in the same 'physical' position in the room (binaural with head tracking feedback technology). Amazing! (If it actually works)

There is just an unsolvable problem with that: latency.

Your audio feed has to react in real time to head movement, but sensors are too slow, add digital audio processing to this and you're completely off.

Human acoustical ranging works by detecting latencies and latency differences, so one nanosecond latency is too much already.