Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyers Guide
Who's Online
106 registered (alwatson, augustm, Bambers, beeboss, Bellicapelli, 25 invisible), 1823 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2559670 - 07/29/16 08:06 PM Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago
ZMaestro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/16
Posts: 21
Back in the mid-1990s I was renting a digital piano. I can't remember if it was Roland or Korg, but it was high end at the time and had weighted keys.

Fast forward to today. I was browsing a piano store and tried out a bunch of digitals from Yamaha and Kawaii, ranging from $300 to ~$3000. I was expecting them to be much better than 20 years ago. Wow, talk about disappointment. They don't feel any better than the digital from 1994. Their action is the same mushy junk that feels nothing like an acoustic. Seriously, 20 years later and there's no improvement in actions? What the heck have these companies been doing?

The only one that felt even somewhat like an acoustic was the ES100. Everything else there was.. ick. Even the $2700 Kawaii

Top
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#2559688 - 07/29/16 09:32 PM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
ElmerJFudd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1259
I find the ES100'S keys themselves very plasticy feeling, the action, eh... it's ok, i mean for the price quite good. I found it a little slow on repeated notes. In the same price range you'd compare... Yamaha P-115 or maybe P-255. Casio PX-360 or maybe 560 or 5S.

I'm surprised you didn't find the Kawai MP-11 not at least an improvement over a 90s Roland or Korg. (It had to be a Roland, I can't remember playing any Korg action I thought was stellar - maybe the SG-1d back in the day was impressive for the time). See if you can find an MP-7 or ES8 on the floor someplace to compare to the MP11.

What acoustic piano actions are you used to playing on? You really need to play a Yamaha Avant Grand for the action alone. I play the N3 regularly at two church gigs. I forget I'm playing a digital in the heat of reading some Bach or whatever they happen to be working on. But they have the same action in the N2 and the N1. But these are consoles, not portable digital pianos so really no comparison. Most of the actions you are mentioning are compact designs meant to be lighter and stuck in a smaller case. Kawai makes some nice consoles as well... if you can find a dealer, try the CA67 or CA97.

Top
#2559727 - 07/30/16 04:16 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ElmerJFudd]
willf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
I am also a little surprised that you do not feel that the actions have improved. I am not sure whether you are referring to 'portable' or 'console' type pianos.

If console then try the Casio GP500 and GP300 and as mentioned above the Yamaha Avant Grand range.

If portable then the Kawai MP-11 (heavy) and Kawai VPC-1 (controller) are, in my opinion, far superior to anything that was available 20 years ago.

For truly portable/stage piano try the Yamaha CP4, Roland RD-800, or Kawai MP-7. Again all, in my opinion, far superior to anything that was available 20 years ago. At a much lower price point the Casio PX-5S also has, at least to me, a pretty reasonable action - far better than a Yamaha P-300 digital piano from the 90s. I chose that model because I sill have one. At the time it was highly regarded but the Casio is far superior in terms of 'piano feel'.
_________________________
willf

Top
#2559746 - 07/30/16 08:05 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
Nickeldome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By ZMaestro
Back in the mid-1990s I was renting a digital piano. I can't remember if it was Roland or Korg, but it was high end at the time and had weighted keys.

Fast forward to today. I was browsing a piano store and tried out a bunch of digitals from Yamaha and Kawaii, ranging from $300 to ~$3000. I was expecting them to be much better than 20 years ago. Wow, talk about disappointment. They don't feel any better than the digital from 1994. Their action is the same mushy junk that feels nothing like an acoustic. Seriously, 20 years later and there's no improvement in actions? What the heck have these companies been doing?

The only one that felt even somewhat like an acoustic was the ES100. Everything else there was.. ick. Even the $2700 Kawaii


I have the living proof of a 1996 Kurzweil PC88 and a 2015 Kawai MP11 here at my own home. And I can assure you the difference in touch is tremendous!

You don't really specify what models you tried and what you are used to as in acoustic piano's?

If you've hardly ever played a digital before and are mainly used to playing acoustic, you may have a hard time finding something that resemblances the feel that a real piano has.

You might change your mind when you start to involve these digital instruments with high quality virtual instruments like NI The Grandeur, The Maverick or Galaxy Vintage D?

Touch and sound are an integral experience in playing a piano. You might be amazed when playing an ES-100 or other model in that situation?

Suddenly it might sound and feel like the real thing?!
_________________________
Piano: Kawai MP11 / Kurzweil PC88 / Yamaha upright accoustic
Recording: Cubase 8.5 Pro / Roland Octa-Capture 16x10 / Nektar Panorama P1 / Yamaha PD18
Main VST's: Kontakt 5 / Omnisphere 2 / Trillian / Pad Shop Pro / Halion 5/ Rob Papen Blue II

Top
(ad 800)
Yamaha CP Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP Stage Pianos Simply the Best
#2559926 - 07/31/16 02:51 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
ZMaestro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/16
Posts: 21
I've played acoustics for 25 years. Many different brands, and all 3 types, from expensive to cheap. I have a grand now.

I didn't note any of the models because their action were lousy so I didn't bother, especially after I saw the prices. I noted the ES100 because it was the only one that felt somewhat acceptable. I tried both Kawaii portables and consoles but only Yamaha portables because the store didn't have anything else from Yamaha. The Yamahas were lower end stuff (under $1000), and felt like toy synthesizers for children. Didn't even bother to go to other stores to try Roland, Casio or Korg. I think I've seen enough

Top
#2559948 - 07/31/16 06:10 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
Bellicapelli Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 264
Loc: Tuscany Italy
I had a Technics Digital Ensemble piano +20 years ago, and i have a new digital today, and the action has changed a lot to me.
_________________________
Kawai Ca63 - yamaha motif07 - Korg01fd

Top
#2559982 - 07/31/16 11:02 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
Jay Roland Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 1074
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
Originally Posted By ZMaestro
I've played acoustics for 25 years. Many different brands, and all 3 types, from expensive to cheap. I have a grand now.

I didn't note any of the models because their action were lousy so I didn't bother, especially after I saw the prices. I noted the ES100 because it was the only one that felt somewhat acceptable. I tried both Kawaii portables and consoles but only Yamaha portables because the store didn't have anything else from Yamaha. The Yamahas were lower end stuff (under $1000), and felt like toy synthesizers for children. Didn't even bother to go to other stores to try Roland, Casio or Korg. I think I've seen enough



So you've based your opinion of digital piano actions completely on the fact that you've tried the entry level instruments from one manufacturer, and a few pianos from another, and your experience from many years ago???? And you're not going any further?

You haven't seen enough yet. You have yet to try the actions from Roland and Yamaha (the CLP and N series from Yamaha, and the HP/LX Series from Roland)

What blows my mind, is that there is a ton more out there to try, yet you're deliberately choosing to form your entire opinion based on decades old experience, and barely trying anything that's available. Then coming to a digital piano forum to tell us all about how crap the instruments we all use daily, seem to be in your opinion.

Usually, I'd take seriously someone who has taken some time to try various instruments from various manufacturers. Someone who has genuine qualitative feedback about what they tried, and why they liked or didn't like it.

The entry Level Yamaha portables and Kawai ES-100 do not speak for the many and varied digital piano actions out there, that millions of people enjoy daily for practice, and for making their living.

Don't just read the headlines....Dig into the story. Who knows, you might find you like it.

Jay
_________________________
My posts represent no official statement from my employer in any way, shape, or form.
I'm here to help past, present, and future Roland Customers with the best advice I can possibly give.

Yes....the new Roland HP and LX Pianos are STILL in fact modelled.


Top
#2560097 - 07/31/16 09:53 PM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12091
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wow, gloves off from Jay, I like it! wink

ZMaestro, I'm confident that digital piano keyboard actions from all the major manufacturers have improved considerably over the past 25 years or so.

However, just as there can be a large variance in the keyboard touch of acoustic pianos, there is undoubtedly a difference across the various digital piano brands and models.

The ES100 is Kawai's most affordable instrument. The keyboard action it utilises was highly regarded a few years ago, and is still popular today. However, I don't believe anyone would argue that it's the best Kawai has to offer. The more modern actions utilised by the ES8, MP11, and CA/CS models are undoubtedly more realistic and expressive.

I would encourage you to return to the piano store (and visit a few others also, in order to check other brands such as Roland) and make a note of the actual model names/numbers, along with more detailed analysis of the characteristics you do and do not like. This way we can truly identify which keyboard actions you're referring to, and make some useful suggestions to properly advise you.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

Top
#2560225 - 08/01/16 11:49 AM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2876
Loc: UK
Well the OP hasn't been back, and looking at his post history it seems he's trolling, or ignorant, or both, and this thread just popped up again elsewhere to suggest ignorance is there.

Top
#2560231 - 08/01/16 12:05 PM Re: Digital pianos actions today vs 20+ years ago [Re: ZMaestro]
login Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/14
Posts: 213
I disagree completely. Action has improved a lot. OP is probably trolling.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Piano Summit 2017 - Join Us!
along with Chick Corea, Jonathan Cain,Set Rudetsky, Ray Chew, Onree Gill ...
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad
Let Your Piano Sing
Let Your Piano Sing
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Sound of an Erard Piano
by Seeker
09/27/16 08:47 AM
Competition
by I like Piano
09/27/16 07:53 AM
New digital Paino
by dmcgeown
09/27/16 07:30 AM
New digital piano
by dmcgeown
09/27/16 06:37 AM
Sweeping ?
by Hi there
09/27/16 04:11 AM
Forum Stats
85,081 Registered Members
44 Forums
175,366 Topics
2,558,442 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission