Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum New Yamaha CF6-help please!!

Hi to you all.
I would very much appreciate any advice from the expert technicians here.
I have a brand new CF6 for the past two months, and it was regulated about 4 weeks after it arrived. I am finding some aspects of the action very problematic. One piece is causing big problems-chopin's etude op 10 no 2. For those who may not know it, its basically a chromatic study on the 3rd 4th and 5th fingers with chords underneath-and very fast. I just cannot get anywhere near the speed of 144 without my fingers and wrist seizing up and yet on a clapped out clavinova I can play it fairly well. It feels like my fingers have great difficulty right from the start in going between the black and white keys-almost as if the distances are too great-but the guy who regulated it thought it was fine(although I dont think he actually checked it properly.) Also playing repeated chords in the L H is very difficuly at speed. I have done some tough weight checks and there is inconsistancy -most of the middle range is 55g but several notes here and there requre an extre few grams to go down. upweight seems to be about 35g. I measured these about a cm from the edge.
I am really frustrated because it just doesnt feel right. However certain other aspects are great-repeated notes, and octave glissandos are so easy.Ant thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Stephen

Do you depress the sustain pedal when you measure touchweight?
Can you play at ppp a chromatic scale with consistent touch?

What you are probably having issues with is the extra inertia with your new Yamaha compared to the Clavinova that you've gotten used to.

Why did you purchase this piano if you're having difficulties with the action?

Many thanks for your replies.
Yes I did have the pedal down. I will try chromatic scale.
Ed, I dont believe that inertia is the case; I have owned other pianos. The Clavinova never has been my proper piano. The CF6 does have an amazing tone, and also many experts have said the action is as good as anything around.

If your touch weights are 55 down 35 up that should be a fast action
Even a little on the light side for friction
I believe with a fine regulation it should meet your needs
You say the tone is great-if it were a bit muted and in need of voicing up it could cause you to struggle to get the power/tone you want.
One other thought:
Does the keys lift the dampers about the same height as the sustain pedal?

Thanks Gene,
Is it a problem that several of the keys are heavier downweights?
Also the sustaining pedal is very tight (actually makes my foot ache) could that be effecting it?(although on the Chopin etude I use no pedal)
Many thanks
Stephen

I think you just need time to get used to the action. Work on slower pieces, or playing pieces more slowly, until you get used to the new piano. Playing things slowly is good practice anyway.

There was a video I found some time ago that said that one way to preserve your strength is to remember that after you initially play the note, you do not need to press it any harder than to hold it down and the damper up. The same is true of the pedals.

It's unusual to find a heavy Yamaha action. Have you compared your piano to other Yamaha grands?

Uneven touch could be a problem but how uneven are they.
Sustain pedal can be freed up
I'd suggest you get a technician that is qualified to evaluate your piano
Try www.prg.org and search for a tech in your area

www.ptg.org might work better

To the OP - could you tell us more about the other pianos you have played on, and not found this to be a problem? Were they new, old, vertical, grand, etc? What size?

I agree with others - your model of piano is typically on the easier end in terms of touch...

Hi Nathan,
I have played on a variety. I had a 1908 Bechstein B until recently, and a series of uprights. I played Rach 3 on a Steinway where the touch was definately heavier.
I honestly dont think its to do with a heavy action, because if that was the case on the Chopin Etude I would be getting tired maybe 3rd page, but I am finding it tough from bar one-in fact for anyone who knows this piece I cannot begin the RH "A" (1st note with the 4th finger because when I cross over with the 3rd to Bflat at speed it just wont happen properly. At times the B flat doesnt sound. Also odd notes in that chromatic passage will not sound. I did play a chromatic scale today in normal fashion very fast and very soft no problem. I can only really describe it as my fingers having to work very hand and in an awkward manner in anything other than a very moderate tempo.
This is the same piece on the Yamaha CFX and I cannot get anywhere near that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of_afnCe4IE

Thanks for the typo correction Nathan

I watched the video.
I agree yours is not a heavy action and should function like that cfx. I believe the touch is inconsistent for reasons that I cannot deduce from just reading your posts. It could be regulation, excess friction on some parts, perception for various reasons, room acoustics, just not certain but I do believe that your experience demonstrates your adaptability to different pianos so I will stick with my ideas.
It is interesting that you can play a pp or ppp chromatic scale and all is ok but some notes do not play when you do that chromatic passage you refer to.
I do believe that your Yamaha can be regulated to perform the way you desire. It will take someone that knows how to regulate for performance to go through it completely and eliminate any excess friction in keys, whippen and hammer flanges and damper flanges, damper guide rails.
To be certain key height, key travel, hammer travel are accurate along with damper regulation and voicing.
Just to give you an idea - Yamaha puts a class on at conventions about the 37 separate regulation adjustments that must be made and keep in mind that most every one will affect others so they need to be repeated until you reach a point of deminishing returns.
Do you know who regulated the CFX in the video? I would look him/her up.

What do you mean by notes not sounding?

A video of someone else playing on a different piano says nothing about your playing on your piano.

Yeah I agree with others that it's sounding more and more like something is up with the regulation.

Gene,
Thanks again for your very helpful insights.I am going to push Yamaha to sort it out.
BDB, my point was to show that the CF range is meant to be up with the best in terms of action. Showing the video shows what it is capable of. I was not insinuating anything about my own playing, but I have enough technique to know if I should be struggling with something or not. The issue of the notes not sounding is without doubt a regulation issue. Interestingly, at the beginning of the etude, I have more chance of the b flat sounding if the chord below the A is held for a crotchet rather than a semiquaver (Chopins other version), meaning that there seems to be an issue in the way those lower notes lift off, rather than the rapid movement across to the right with the 5321 (A,bflat,b natural, c) fingering.
The way I feel about the piano is that great potential is there, I just cannot in certain passages unlock it at present, and that is so frustrating.

Here are my thoughts:

If you are used to the Clavinova, you need time to master the action. If I have to play on a Clavinova, I had difficulties too.

I know this Chopin etude: do your black keys have enough side play? If not, you are catched between black and white keys. Are the sides of the black keys tacky or somehow sticky? Very little is maybe enough to make you struggle.

Maybe the after touch is more present on the Yamaha than on the Clavinova?

I suggest regulation of the action and especially the keys, carefully regulating the black keys to your demands.

Hi Tuner,
Thanks very much for your input. What do you mean be side play exactly? I would say there is no stickiness or anything like that on the black keys. Do you think key dip could be made more shallow in order to reach the next note that bit quicker?
Thanks
stephen

I wonder if the damper upstop rail is a little too low? And if your damper pedal travel is also too little. That would explain your playing sensations. Ask your tech to check that.

Also make sure the backchecks are not dragging on the hammer tails from a hard blow.