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Hi, I'm trying to find a chart covering all the 2-5-1 chords in the key of C, not just the first 2-5-1 chords, but all from C to C. I've been to several websites but nothing, could anyone recommend where I could view this chart?

Last edited by musicmad; 08/23/16 12:55 PM.

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It's not clear what you're talking about or asking for (in various respects).
Can you clarify?

(What do you mean by "the first"?
What do you mean by "from C to C"?

And, I'm not sure it's even clear what you mean by "all the 2-5-1 chords," because there's sort of an infinite number of possibilities. Do you mean with the different inversions of 2? Or something else?)


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Secondary dominants? V of II, V of III, etc., preceeded by the appropriate II chord? II-V-I progressions built on each scale degree?

All this means something a little different to Jazzy types, which might be the OP's context? 😀


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The question, as worded, doesn't make sense. The I chord in C is C major, so the only ii-V-I in C is Dmin, Gdom, C major. If you're looking for ii-V-I progressions to, say the iii chord (Emin), it's not likely you'll find a chart like that. That's not the way people this of that. For example, F#min, Bdom, Emin, is a ii-V-i to Eminor, but you can have that chord progression in C major, D minor, Eminor and any number of keys. That progression is just what it is, a ii-V-i to Eminor.

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What I'm saying is in the key of C the 1st 2-5-1 chords would be Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, correct, Now proceeding a 4th up and 5th down in a 2-5-1 progression, what would the other chord names be?


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Originally Posted by musicmad
What I'm saying is in the key of C the 1st 2-5-1 chords would be Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, correct, Now proceeding a 4th up and 5th down in a 2-5-1 progression, what would the other chord names be?


From the pattern you mention above, the progression, using your notation, is simply Dm7, Gmaj7, Cmaj7, Fmaj7, Bdim+7, Em7, Am7, but that is just a descending sequence of 7th chords in Cmaj.

It's when you get into secondary dominants that a sequence of modulating 2-5-1 chords can be constructed.

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musicmad: It's still not clear what you're trying to do.

You've said that after playing a 2-5-1 in C, and winding up on C, you want to go up 4th find a 2-5-1 progression. Going up a 4th takes you to F. Are you trying to start a 2-5-1 on F? If so, that would be F-, Bb7, Ebmaj. Or, are you trying to find a 2-5-1 that would end up on F, which case it would be G-7, C7, Fmaj.

Are you trying to find a 2-5-1 pattern that will take you though the cycle of 5ths? It might help if you would explain what you are trying to do.

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I'm simply trying to play a 2-5-1 chord progression through the entire key of C, and would like to know what the chords are.

Last edited by musicmad; 08/24/16 11:06 AM.

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With respect, what you're trying to do doesn't exist. The 2-5-1 is a progression that ends on a 1 chord, and there is only a single 1 chord in C; C major. There is, therefore, only a single 2-5-1 "in C major." Now, you can be playing a piece in C major, and the composer may write 2-5-1 progressions that will take you to another chord, and you are still in C major. For example, you can play F#-7, B7, E minor. That is a 2-5-1 that takes you to E minor, which is the iii chord of C major. But that is not a "2-5-1 in C major." It's simply a 2-5-1 that takes you to an e minor chord, and it is a progression that can work regardless of what key you are playing in.

Maybe this general perspective will help: A 2-5-1 is a chord progression that gets you to a target chord. It really isn't something that is associated with a key signature. If your target chord is G, the 2-5-1 is A-7, D7, Gmaj. It is irrelevant what key you are in. If your target chord is G, then that is the 2-5-1. There are many drills for learning and playing the 2-5-1 progression, but they are based on getting to different target chords, not key signatures.

Hope this helps!

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Originally Posted by musicmad
What I'm saying is in the key of C the 1st 2-5-1 chords would be Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, correct, Now proceeding a 4th up and 5th down in a 2-5-1 progression, what would the other chord names be?


This sound likes practicing 2-5-1 progressions "around the circle of 5ths." Should be a lot of YouTubes explaining this.


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No matter how you look at it, 2-5-1 is simply another way of describing a circle of fifths. If you continue, you will get, from the start, 2-5-1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1-4-7-3-6...staying in the key of C.

If you choose to add an accidental here and there, you can get a full circle of fifths encompassing the entire 12 tone chromatic scale.

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Originally Posted by prout
No matter how you look at it, 2-5-1 is simply another way of describing a circle of fifths. If you continue, you will get, from the start, 2-5-1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1-4-7-3-6...staying in the key of C.

Actually you're not doing a bunch of 2-5-1's.
You're starting with 2-5-1, but then going (essentially) 5-1-5-1-5-1....

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by prout
No matter how you look at it, 2-5-1 is simply another way of describing a circle of fifths. If you continue, you will get, from the start, 2-5-1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1-4-7-3-6...staying in the key of C.

Actually you're not doing a bunch of 2-5-1's.
You're starting with 2-5-1, but then going (essentially) 5-1-5-1-5-1....


Quite so, though some of the 5's will be minor. Another way to look it is that 2-5-1 can be seen as 5-5-5, therefore the entire key of C sequence would be, starting from D: 5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5, the last 5 being D again. Circles, don't you love 'em?

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prout: you're missing the point of a chord progression, which is a sequence of chords that have a momentum in a certain direction. The 2-5-1 is not the same as 5-5-5. The 5 chord has the tritone in it, which naturally and delightfully resolves to a major or minor tonic. It feels like a resolution. A series of dominant chords (see Jordu) feels like it is not resolving. The 2-5-1 moves by fifths, but it is a very different concept than the Circle of Fifths.

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Originally Posted by jjo
prout: you're missing the point of a chord progression, which is a sequence of chords that have a momentum in a certain direction. The 2-5-1 is not the same as 5-5-5. The 5 chord has the tritone in it, which naturally and delightfully resolves to a major or minor tonic. It feels like a resolution. A series of dominant chords (see Jordu) feels like it is not resolving. The 2-5-1 moves by fifths, but it is a very different concept than the Circle of Fifths.


Only when 5 has the 7th added does it contain a tritone. 7 also has a tritone.

That being the case, what do you think the OP is trying to achieve. I'm lost.

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Originally Posted by prout
That being the case, what do you think the OP is trying to achieve. I'm lost.

We really have no idea -- and the OP can't tell what it is that's unclear about what he's saying and asking. And we can't help him out on it very much, because we can't tell what he's saying and asking.

In other words, this in itself is sort of a circle of 5ths. grin

I think probably he misunderstands what some terms mean, and so he's using them in a way that doesn't get across what he's wanting to say, but he doesn't realize he might be using the terms wrong and so he just keeps repeating them.

To Musicmad: I think we'll do better if you try to put the whole thing differently somehow.

BTW, when I did the first reply, I was afraid maybe that I was just being an idiot. Of course I was preferring not to be, but I was mostly curious to find out.

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by prout
That being the case, what do you think the OP is trying to achieve. I'm lost.

We really have no idea -- and the OP can't tell what it is that's unclear about what he's saying and asking. And we can't help him out on it very much, because we can't tell what he's saying and asking.

In other words, this in itself is sort of a circle of 5ths. grin

BTW, when I did the first reply, I was afraid maybe that I was just being an idiot. Of course I was preferring not to be, but I was mostly curious to find out.

Yes, this is one of the strangest threads I've ever seen, and that's saying something!


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This thread is totally confusing to me - maybe it should have been in the the non-classical forum, where (I believe) they speak a foreign language.

Why is 2-5-1 = ii7 - V7 - I7 (according to the OP)? Is it a jazz thing (or his thing) that you add on a 7th to every chord unless.....what???

And the OP keeps saying that C major has lots of 2-5-1?? To me, in the key of C major, there's only one ii - V - I, where I is the tonic C major chord (and ii the supertonic, and V the dominant).


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Originally Posted by bennevis

Why is 2-5-1 = ii7 - V7 - I7 (according to the OP)? Is it a jazz thing (or his thing) that you add on a 7th to every chord unless.....what???


Some of us are lapsing into (somewhat incorrectly used) "Nashville Numbers."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_number_system

Yes, "extended harmony" (making everything at least a 7th chord) is a jazz thing, which I think is sort of understood.

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Approach-Jazz-Piano-Exploring/dp/0634001779



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