Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Somewhat recent experience playing Yamaha's CX series

Late last year, we bought a new NY Steinway Model A. The process and experience afterwards is another story in itself. At first it did suffer from the well known "soft hammers" (or heavy hammers as some respected techs on this forum suggested-I am not technical enough to know) problems, but now it has grown into a full, warm, sweet, but also formidable instrument that we like a lot. The splurging side of me still thinks about upgrading it to a 7-footer at some point.

But now this fully fledged instrument has put our older, 2005 Yamaha GB1 at a disadvantage. When playing 2-piano pieces with my wife, the GB1's sound was how I described as a drowning person: the head floats above the wave momentarily (because of its characteristic strident and bright attacks) but then is submerged by the strong overtone of the Steinway.

Despite spending her last school years at a then all-Steinway school (Juilliard), my wife does not want another Steinway, asking for some tonal variety in the house. So we (more like I) started casually looking at different brands. While it's been always my dream to have two tier-1 (however that's defined) pianos at home, I am also itching to get back to practice, only possible at night time. That's why my earlier threads were about silent pianos. That led me to consider Yamaha seriously again, since they are pretty much the only one brand available in US that make factory-fitted silent system.

Over the years, I am no stranger to Yamaha. I grew up practicing mainly on a Yamaha upright (I don't know the model), and luckily enough to get a C5 in 1992 from my parents (btw that series is likely not listed on a Japanese page on Yamaha's website I saw before), then the GB1 we have now. I like their touch; I am ok with their tone in general for what it is.

On this forum and others, there had been discussions about Yamaha's (relatively new) CX grands, but I think shared experience is still relatively scant. Near where I live, the same Yamaha dealer has two showrooms and one of them also carries Bosendorfer. In the past several months, I visited those two showrooms several times and here is my anecdotal experience:

1) Some CX models indeed do have a much mellower attacks than their models of the past. Curiously this happened in one particular showroom (models C2X, C3X, C6X). The other showroom I just visited yesterday has the typical, almost too bright, sound of Yamaha (C2X, C3X, and C7X tested).

2) In one visit, the "bright" showroom also happened to have the elusive CF6. I remember on that particular day (in spring) the other CX models weren't as bright. Under the same showroom roof, I honestly couldn't tell the touch/tone difference of the CF6. Not counting the aesthetic difference (beveled lid, medallion color), the major structural difference of a CF6 I could tell is the thicker rim. Maybe it was more designed to project but that wouldn't be obvious in a showroom?

3) For twice I visited the "brighter" showroom, their Bosendorfers also sounded different. Maybe it has to do with humidity? The room humidity yesterday (from their hygrometer) was 51%, when those instruments (200, 225) sounded bright. I don't recall what it was back in spring.

4) Neither of them carries the silent grands, but one salesperson suggested me to try their Disklavier's silent action since "it's the same". For what's worth, I think the change of touch in between the acoustic mode and silent mode is barely noticeable, but is noticeable, likely due to lack of vibration felt through the fingers. But overall, playing pianissimo in acoustic mode is doable on that piano.

So coming off it, I think even with Yamaha's reputation of producing fairly consistent pianos, there could be still wide variety of tone produced. And even with the mellower ones I encounter, there is still no mistaken that characteristic Yamaha tone.

Last impression (absolutely subjective and anecdotal): I still find that dealers used to selling mass-producing brands like Yamaha, even they recently picked up Bosendorfer, do not really think or talk about their pianos like the enthusiasm and professionalism I encountered at other places carrying brands like Steingraeber or Grotrian.

*** And I still haven't given up getting another Tier 1 piano while also getting a keyboard just for practice

The CX 3,6 & 7 I've played sounded great. Not bright at all and for me, a noticeable difference, for the better, from the C series. Prior to my D I owned a C7E from '85 to '97 and an S6 from '97 to 2006.

You did play the CF6. You mentioned that you weren't able to discern much of a difference between it and the CX line. Personally I like that piano a lot. You spoke of tonal variety from your Steinway. For me that very well might be my choice if I were able to ever think about getting a 7'er for our house (my D resides in a detached studio from the house). Really a nice piano with a warm, dark sound, that speaks to me, at least for jazz, as much or more then a Fazioli 212.

Regarding silent pianos- for noise consideration I'd prefer just having the Avant Grand N2.

Hi Dave Ferris,

I did try the CF6 back in spring, in the same showroom that somehow every piano felt much brighter yesterday when I visited again (the CF6 was not in that showroom anymore; maybe they moved it to the other one.) Back then, I tried C2X, C3X, "older" C7, a concert rental CFX, along with their art case Bosendorfer 185, regular 200, and regular 225. In spring, my perception was that all those Yamaha's were certainly much more mellow than what a "typical Yamaha grand" would sound. However among those Yamaha's, as I mentioned in my post I really couldn't tell how much more superior the CF6 is.

All the Bosendorders sounded nicer back in spring too.

The "mellower" show room was visited by me more recently, under more or less similar climate (temperature and humidity outside). Unfortunately their C6X was sitting in their recital hall that was not quite in tune, but even that it was mellow.

In a way I am amazed by how wide the change of tone (stridency) can be even among Yamaha's of the same generation.

I remember picking my C7 from about 5 in the Fields & Sons showroom in Orange County back in '85. Without a doubt each piano, even Yamahas, can vary. Although not as glaring as a Steinway.

Agree, acoustics can vary from showroom to showroom. Sometimes a piano can sound completely different in another space. Don't like this in vogue architectural practice of using hard surfaces- glass,brick and tile. Doesn't belong in a room that features live music and certainly has no place in a store where you're critically listening to acoustic pianos.

It was 5 years ago that I invited a Curtis Institute prof. to go to NAMM with me put many high end pianos there through their paces. I wanted a really world class player with an open mind to tell me their blunt thoughts on several makes and particular models.

We also stopped by the Yamaha room and it was the first time the CFX was ever shown. It was like no other Yamaha I had ever played - my colleague agreed.

I have noticed a distinct difference in the Cx series as well. These are serious pianos.

My 2 cents,

What intrigued me was that it was in the same showroom, just on two different dates, that my perception of the same set of pianos would be so different. It may have to do with their "premier piano room" where they placed their CFX and Bosendorfer was way more packed with pianos this time I visited, or the weather. It could also be that in spring they had a bunch of "retired" pianos from a local university on sale that, comparing to those somewhat worn ones, the more pristine CX models sounded mellow. After all, our brains work the best at picking up differences.

I also tried their AvantGrand N1. Certainly a good product in its own right and it would be a decent standalone instrument of a house wanting a good digital piano. But I cannot justify (to myself) spending that much and space for a practice instrument (and only for practice; for what I play it will never be paired with true acoustic ones).

I have no doubt they are quality instruments. My experience with even their earlier models has been that they were built durable and consistent over years of use.

Also sharing my experience:

I purchased a C2X recently and found that it sounded quite a bit brighter than any other CX's (C1X, C2X, C3X and C7X) I tried in different stores. It turns out that the isssue was the acoustics of the room. We have tall ceilings with bare walls and our piano is resting on a hardwood floor right on top of a concrete slab foundation. I placed some pillows under the soundboard and that really mellowed it out. The tone sounds lovely, but I do find that the volume a bit loud so I keep the lid closed all the time. We're eventually going to hang some art and get a thick rug for the room (when my wife and I can finally agree on how to decorate!)

We opted to have the silent system on the C2X and it is great for practice. I often practice between midnight and 2 AM, so I use it all the time. I'd say I'm an intermediate pianist and the silent system gets me 75% of the way there in terms of what I need to practice. For some more detailed work, such as half-pedaling or fine tuning some musical aspects of a piece, I feel it is better to use the real piano. It's hard for me to be specific, but there is a richness that the digital systems cannot reproduce. Maybe it's a certain degree of resonance. BTW, using good headphones for the silent system really affects the sound quality.

I've spent many hours on the Yamaha NU1 and I can say that the C2X's silent system sounds better. But now that I've been playing a real acoustic grand, comparing the two digital systems seems like splitting hairs when comparing it to a real piano

I was window shopping at a Yamaha dealership recently in London, just looking out of curiosity as I happen to like Yamahas and hadn't played any CX models. Anyway one of the sales people, a very nice lady, struck up conversation. Eventually she asked "Do you have a piano at the moment?" I replied that I did. "What is it do you mind me asking?", "A model B Steinway" I said. She followed with "A grand or an upright?".

Very nice pianos.

Norbert

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I was relatively determined (once the budget allows) to get a Yamaha silent grand, only going to the showroom to decide on the models (size) and thinking about the consistency of Yamaha's pianos. Now I am on the fence again; because the local dealer wouldn't keep those in stock so I would buy one sight-unseen, yet the variance of the tone somehow shocked me.

Over the years (we've moved into this area for 4 years) I'd been to this Yamaha dealer, including their two showrooms, five times. For the first two, we weren't thinking about 2-piano setup (space limit), only casually looking at whether we'd upgrade our GB1. We encountered different salespersons, and they both made us feel that they only knew about their pianos regarding sizes and prices. For the more recent 3 visits, I also encountered 3 different people. I told them each what I had in mind, my options and the sort of dilemma. One bashed our GB1 as an inferior piano, even though that's also a Yamaha piano (I posted it as a reply in another thread); one kept steering me to their more expensive and also more space-occupying digital models, even though I already said if I were to get a pure digital, it would be tucked in the basement only for practice and I was not interested in any sort of furniture/cabinet value; the third one was totally uninterested and would only provide minimal support to set up the silent mode, although to his credit he did allow me to roam around their showroom and figure things out myself.

Quite off-topic here, but my experience at a local Steingraeber dealer, and a Grotrian dealer when we visited our friend, was fantastic. I think both dealers are well known on this forum but I don't know if it would be considered as ad listing their names. My wife, although a professional pianist, is not very technical about pianos but she thoroughly enjoyed the conversation she had with the owner of the Grotrian dealer. I had the same feeling (because I went alone) with the Steingraeber one.

The Bösendorfer 200 model is available in the USA factory-fitted with the disklavier E3 system, which, as you noted regarding the Yamaha's, includes the silent play capability. I wonder if they will be switching to the new Enspire Disklavier system?

Bösendorfer also makes a silent piano, but according to their website, it's only available in Europe. It uses Yamaha's silent piano technology, but I believe uses a Bösendorfer Imperial rather than Yamaha CFX as the sampled piano for silent headphone playback.

Pianodisc has a silent system (QuietTime® MagicStar V5) which I'm sure could be factory installed on a Mason & Hamlin piano, since they are part of the same corporation. I have no experience with that system.

Going OT a little, what is this "well known soft hammers" problem?

Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about similar scenarios, although I haven't asked the dealers. My thoughts include, like what you said, Bosendorfer fitted with Yamaha silent system, Yamaha CF4/6 fitted with silent system, etc.

As you said Bosendorfer listed their 155 silent as only available in Europe. Yamaha's UK website lists S6 SH and S4 SH but I don't think they sell these in US. I never encountered an S4 or S6 anyways. In their promotional material for, I think, Musikmesse this year, they have the Enspire listed as available for CF4/6.

I really try not to have a player system.

Shortly, new NY Steinways often make the pianists feel as if the hammers are too soft that the sound thus produced has no attack and/or no power. And again some would argue it also has to do with hammer weight. In reality I found it to be a bit more complicated. After discussing with our tech, we decided to let it play naturally instead of lacquering it up. One telltale sign of the early hammer problem was no change in timbre when using una corda despite the action shift. Ours did, fortunately, play out nicely after only a few months of light play. I still have trouble making clashing sound if I want to.

This still doesn't quench my thirst and G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) for a larger Hamburg Steinway