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Greetings! Thanks for having me. I'm not much of a piano player, but my daughter is quickly becoming a good one!

We're in the market for our first piano, coming from a Casio Privia PX-850, which was a fine introductory instrument. She's done recitals on grands and a few uprights, and we're at the point where I feel she's hampered by not being on an acoustic piano.

Looking for feedback/suggestions. We've checked a few local stores and will be expanding our radius this weekend. We've also been checking out a few of the online dealers who seem to have a decent reputation. My thought as a long-time guitar player is that I won't buy anything I haven't played. (Those aforementioned online shops are within lengthy driving distance and we WOULD make a trip for a final test run before pulling the trigger)

If we're in the $4-6k range, should we try for new? Should we consider - or avoid - the many grey market Yamahas that seem to be out there? (FWIW, based on the online listening, my wife and daughter seem to prefer a less-bright tone than the Yamahas offer). Would LOVE to go grand, even if a minor tonal compromise for the action and appearance, and might be possible to stretch that budget to $8k.

Just intimidating to make such a large purchase. In stores, they all sound lovely when played by the tech/sales guys. Just looking for advice/suggestions to help narrow it down. Thanks to all of you in advance!

Hello, and welcome to Piano World!

Lots of very experienced piano folks here, and great piano professionals as well. So, you will get good advice here.

As for me? I'm not that good of piano player either; but I have had some experience with pre-owned pianos. I've come close to buying new a time or two, but felt the pre-owned route was the best value for me.

My wife told me once that she thought "used" was my favorite word. Not sure about that, but chances are, you will find a better value in a used piano than buying new. I'm sure some of the piano dealers here would disagree with me.

Remember, some folks buy a "new" piano (for themselves or a family member) and it may well end up getting played very little, and soon end up for sale just to get it out of the house.

You've already narrowed things down a bit; I'd be more inclined to seek out a private seller than a used piano dealer, although the used piano dealer will have much more to offer in terms of different sizes and brands for sale.

Next, you need to decide if you want an upright or a grand. Either could be a good choice. A grand would definitely take up more space in your home (think dinning room table ).

In my view, I think you could buy a very nice newer upright for $6K to $8K, and even a nice baby-grand piano.

I've been told I give bad advice on the PW forums, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt. It's worth what it cost.

Good luck, and keep us informed!

Rick

It's fun to have a child that likes piano isn't it? We have a gray market Yamaha G2 (grand) from the 1970's which we absolutely love. We've owned it for a little over a year and have had no problems with it. Gray market pianos cost a lot less so if cost is a big concern you can get a better deal going gray market. FWIW- I've been told that our Yamaha does not sound as "bright" as others.

Thanks Rick and PianoMom! Appreciate the input. One of the 'perks' we've seen with some of the dealers is the trade-in policy for full value. Makes me more willing to go smaller or upright with the idea we could always bump it up in the future if necessary. (Of course, my wife would rather find a way to go to a grand NOW with the idea that our daughter would benefit from 10 years on the grand vs. 5 on an upright and 5 on a grand later...) Thanks for your thoughts.

Older grand at around $8k.

Used big upright from a good brand at around $4-6k.

New smaller upright at around $4-6k.

All are fine choices... I might go with #2 above unless you can really find a grand in decent condition. Keep looking and tell us about what you find

Edit I would add that when pianos get older they have issues like side-to-side wiggling and incompletely dampening. Nothing serious and can't be fixed with some money, but that does add to the the cost of an older grand. Take that into account on an individual basis...

When it comes to acoustic pianos, the best way to go is to start first by finding your piano tuner, and then buy the piano. Anything you buy other than a new big name instrument should be inspected by *your* tuner/tech. You can find somebody good on Angie's List, or if you give your location, this forum.

Start by assessing how much room you have for a piano, so you'll have a size range to look for.

And figure on keeping the digital for a while for headphone practice. Eventually, even upgrade to a better digital in addition to the acoustic. Most serious players should have both.

I realize this runs to the edge of advertising, but Hailun has a national promotion with many dealers (but not all) participating with a new 48" Hailun model 121 starting at $3995 for polish ebony and just a little more for wood finishes or white. It puts tremendous competitive pricing pressure on the typical new smaller uprights and the better condition grey market instruments that are often 30+ years old.

Of course, if you do up your budget, even more options will be available to you, but it's nice to know benchmarks of what is available new and to have options beside just black which can be hard to find among the better condition used models.

Hmm. Gotta figure that she might be into it this year, and not so much next year. Kids.

So, in my mind, resale value would be a factor. How easily can you sell it if it turns into a boat anchor?

With that criteria, all the Yamahas stand out -- they are known quantities with known prices and willing buyers. I've owned two grey market ones, zero issues. It's all BS as far as I can tell. Yamahas are very easy to sell (including grey market ones), I've sold several.

I dislike "baby grands". Sort of like an upright laid out horizontally. So why not just buy an upright? Although there are plenty of good used baby grands out there. Check Craigslist. However, resale is a pain as everyone is selling theirs.

On another note, I've been seduced by the newer digital hybrids. Big bang for buck, zero hassle, and decent resale.

Your mileage may vary.

cphollis, there probably are a few outstanding grands < 5'5 in. (165 cm), usually with a big price premium however. grands project their sound into the room, but big uprights give the player the sound and vibration feedback. students who have or gain great technique might benefit from the higher potential repetition in grands, but there are plenty of good upright actions that won't inhibit most of us peon players. lots of good, big uprights to choose from now over a wide range of budgets.

Keep things simple: no need for a special category for "grey market" pianos. They are just second-hand pianos, and you can treat them as such.



I sometimes get leaned on too for the advice I give here. I tend to encourage people who are looking for value.

If your daughter is progressing, and your wife wants a grand, then I'd encourage you to look at private party sales (naturally, you'll want to have a piano inspected before buying). This route takes more legwork on your part, but will result in the best values too (imo).

With a budget of 4k, I'd be looking for a Baldwin M. If it's 8k, I'd be looking for a Baldwin R. I'm admittedly biased towards older Baldwins, but there are other smaller grands to be had in that range. Click the link in my signature if you want to read about my very similar search a couple years ago.

What's the verdict on a Young Chang G157? We have a 2 locally (1998 vintage) we can try out this weekend (~$6500) and one a bit further that's a 1987 (~$4000), with a G185 a bit farther away at ~$6500. And, yes, Retsacnal, we did track down a Baldwin R that sounds good online but have yet to play in person. The ~$9K price tag is just a bit of a stretch. Thanks for the suggestion.

Can you negotiate on that $9k Baldwin R? If it's already sold, then it's the right price. If not, there's still a chance.

Assuming all in good condition, the Baldwin would be my first choice, then the YC G185.

Thanks. I'll have to see if we can word a deal.
Did just stumble upon a 1942 Baldwin M for ~$3K and a 1923 Baldwin for free. Not sure if worth having a tech check it out, or how close it would potentially be to requiring rebuild.

Believe it or not, I just turned down a late 1800's Steinway & Son square grand piano for free. It may well be a collector item or have some value as-is, but I just don't care to make room for it, or have the time to tinker with it.

I have always wanted a Steinway & Son piano, but I do want a playable musical instrument.

The 1923 Baldwin for free may have potential. But rebuilding costs can be substantial, depending on the extent of the rebuild. Refurbishment of what really needs replacing may be a different story.

Good luck, and keep us informed!

Rick

If a piano is playable, and intrigues you, then it's worth having it inspected. Definitely have one inspected before you buy.

I don't know why, but I've always had the impression that the Baldwin M was a post-WWII model, but since expressing that, a couple techs have talked about working on older specimens. Now I can't find the source either, so I may be mistaken.

Anyway, at that age, the Baldwin might still be a nice piano; however, the only way it would be a positive value proposition is if it had been nicely maintained throughout its life (which happens), or if some previous owner had had it rebuilt. Very few pianos have an intrinsic value high enough to exceed the cost of rebuilding them. For most, the only reason to incur the cost of rebuilding would be if the piano held compelling sentimental value (e.g. it was grandma's, and/or you took lessons on it as a kid, etc, or you just so absolutely love it that you want to have it redone regardless of cost).

IMO, a Baldwin M of that age would have to be in pretty good shape to command a price of 3k.

So, if you check it out, and like it, and it seems to be all there, then have it inspected to get an idea of what kind of shape it's in, and if or how much work it might need to get it into good shape. Then you'll have some quantifiable information to compare to other used and new pianos.

Okay. Played the Baldwin. Nice but the store tech admitted that it was more suited for 'project' work.

We did, however, find a deal on a new Knabe WG-50 on in-store promotion for ~$6800. In looking at Piano Buyer, even with the % off, that seems to be a very good deal. Anyone have any experience with those?

You didn't mention how old your daughter is, which is an important consideration. Or, whether others in the family play very much.

My daughters were excellent pianists, and practiced daily up to their mid-teens. After that, their interest fell off dramatically, as other interests took off and college beckoned.

They played an electronic keyboard until that form factor started to hold them back (about age 6 for the oldest) and then we went to a good, solid upright in the same price range you are considering. If either of the girls had progressed to the point where having a grand made sense, I might have taken that step in their late teens. Since their interest waned then, I'm glad I went with the upright. Also, I think you can get a better upright in your price range than you can get a grand, in other words, a low end grand is nice to look at but its sound might actually be worse than a still-affordable but higher end upright. [A friend of mine has a inexpensive baby grand in his parlor, looks great, but sounds terrible compared to my mid-range upright.]

If you have a lot of people who play in your household, and you sense that your daughter's piano interest is going to endure, then getting a decent grand could make sense.

John

P.S. I have a Steinway grand now, but it is purely for my own (and my wife's) pleasure. In other words, our interest never waned so there was no value lost when our kids flew the coop.

Ah, sorry. She's 8. I play a bit, though I'm primarily a guitarist. Can honestly say that I'd play more on an acoustic, as I am not a big fan of the digital. My wife does not, though she's fiddled around on the digital a bit. Not expecting her to play, though having a new acoustic piano may inspire her to. We joked today that my wife has 10 years to get up to speed before our daughter goes off to colelge, to ensure that piano gets used!

I'll second the advice on finding your technician now, while you are still hunting. You're going to need one, anyways, and they can be an invaluable ally in find a piano to fall in love with. If they know what they are doing (not all of them do, unfortunately) they can help you sort out what problems are minor or major.

Yamaha pianos get an unfair reputation for being bright because they are often not well voiced. Their hammers can get very firm after a few years of playing but they are great hammers to work with and can be mellowed out very nicely by a competent tech.

Also, technicians often have a lead on an excellent used piano.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. Waiting to hear back from my daughter's piano teacher and her choir director on who they use for piano techs, otherwise we'll have to rely on the RPT directory (of which the nearest is ~40 miles away).

Having a heck of a time finding comments/reviews/feedback on the Knabe WG50...