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I'm trying to learn the Op. 21 set and I'm having some trouble with #2. Does anyone have a secret fingering that obviates the endless thumb reps in the RH? MM is half note = 92. I think it's physically impossible to play it that fast, though Arrau gives it a good (and IMO inadequate) shot at close to that speed. Sokolov is brilliant, but not perfect. Is this just another example of what Gerald Abraham called Schumann's insensitivity to the natural resources of the instrument? Or is there a trick/insight/solution that I'm not seeing?
Right now I can play it at roughly 75% tempo. When I increase speed, my thumb starts to lose it in the middle of the A section. Any and all advice appreciated.
Hi SiFi! I played this in the Schumann recital here on this forum. It was never finished and it's definately a finger killer! Maybe that's why it isn't played a lot. I really enjoyed working on this piece.
I put it away after the recital and I'm still thinking about it every now and then to pick it back up to finish it. However I got a lot on my plate right now. So it'll have to wait..
I used the double thumb which was ok once you get used to it. Where ever possible 2-1 but that's only in the sections that follows the opening theme of course. I practised with rhythms, staccato, slowmotion, block chords(if that means what I mean )
Morodiene and Heather gave me some pointers in this thread.
And my somewhat shot in the dark performance of it in the recital: link to recording
When I listen to it now it's even farther from finished than what I thought back then. But hey it's hard!
I still have all my fingering written in the score. Perhaps if you can tell me exactly where things fall apart for you I can check and see if I did anything unusual to avoid that.
Unfortunately, I won't be at a computer for another 12 hours or so - so can't respond until later today.
Hi SiFi! I played this in the Schumann recital here on this forum. It was never finished and it's definately a finger killer! Maybe that's why it isn't played a lot. I really enjoyed working on this piece.
I used the double thumb which was ok once you get used to it. Where ever possible 2-1 but that's only in the sections that follows the opening theme of course. I practised with rhythms, staccato, slowmotion, block chords(if that means what I mean )
Morodiene and Heather gave me some pointers in this thread.
And my somewhat shot in the dark performance of it in the recital: link to recording
When I listen to it now it's even farther from finished than what I thought back then. But hey it's hard!
Hey chopinoholic, thanks for the response (a long time ago - sorry!).
Yes, as you and Heather both point out, it's hard and I guess there just isn't a short cut, like so many things in life. I enjoyed listening to your performance and I think I learnt some useful things from it. Thank you for posting the link.
The main problem I'm experiencing now is fatigue, more so than playing accurately, which is linked to the tempo thing: It's difficult to stay relaxed and supple as you get faster. I did work out some fingerings, as you recommended, but I just didn't have the patience to look for every possible place where you could slip a 2-1 or 1-2; too lazy.
Anyway it's coming along. If I ever get it to acceptable standard I'll post something in member recordings.
I still have all my fingering written in the score. Perhaps if you can tell me exactly where things fall apart for you I can check and see if I did anything unusual to avoid that.
Unfortunately, I won't be at a computer for another 12 hours or so - so can't respond until later today.
Hi Carey. Sorry I let the ball drop on this one. I was working on another piece for a recital (Beethoven Op. 10 No. 3) and totally forgot that I'd posted it. Hence the long delay.
My main problem isn't that it falls apart. As I said in response to chopinoholic, It's trying to keep a loose wrist and hand - and failing to do so when the tempo gets above quarter note = 132 or so. So then I get tension in my forearm and fatigue creeps in just where it isn't wanted (the climactic dominant). I agree that half = 92 is pretty much unattainable. But I'd definitely like to get it to quarter = 152 or thereabouts.
As for fingering, I just do the thumb reps except where it's glaringly obvious that one should use second finger. I'm sure there are places where I could be more efficient, especially in the big second paragraph. If you have any tips on specific places, I'd be very interested.
Very nice performance, BTW. Good tempo, very clean.
Hi Carey. Sorry I let the ball drop on this one. I was working on another piece for a recital (Beethoven Op. 10 No. 3) and totally forgot that I'd posted it. Hence the long delay.
My main problem isn't that it falls apart. As I said in response to chopinoholic, It's trying to keep a loose wrist and hand - and failing to do so when the tempo gets above quarter note = 132 or so. So then I get tension in my forearm and fatigue creeps in just where it isn't wanted (the climactic dominant). I agree that half = 92 is pretty much unattainable. But I'd definitely like to get it to quarter = 152 or thereabouts.
As for fingering, I just do the thumb reps except where it's glaringly obvious that one should use second finger. I'm sure there are places where I could be more efficient, especially in the big second paragraph. If you have any tips on specific places, I'd be very interested.
Very nice performance, BTW. Good tempo, very clean.
Thanks for the response.
Hi Simon -
When I learned this piece five years ago, I worked from the only score I had in my library - a Schirmer edition edited by Harold Bauer. At the time it never occurred to me to compare it to other editions.
Bauer cleverly redistributes some of the notes between the hands - so they sound the same - but aren't as impossible to play as originally notated (i.e., less crossing of hands and consistent reliance on the RH thumb). I just downloaded another score from IMSLP (Leipzig: Breitkoph & Hartel - 1st edition) and while reading through it immediately started to tense up.
Bauer has rearranged the notes so they are possible to play at a relatively fast tempo while still relaxed. Perhaps that's cheating. I don't care. If I'd worked from the original five years ago I probably would have given up.
So my question to you is.....what edition are you using??????
The Dover edition is a reprint of the Breitkopf edition edited by Clara Schumann.
Harold Bauer had some clever redistributions that work well. I tuned for one of his students many years ago, but she was already in her 90s then, and has since passed away. She was impressed that I knew about Bauer.
Harold Bauer had some clever redistributions that work well. I tuned for one of his students many years ago, but she was already in her 90s then, and has since passed away. She was impressed that I knew about Bauer.
Yes - the same Harold Bauer who was a great champion of Mason and Hamlin pianos during the Golden Age of Pianos.
From the M&H website - "In 1909, Etude Magazine reported on Mason and Hamlin artist Harold Bauer, the only piano virtuoso who was originally a concert violinist. Although Bauer maintained his interest in the violin, he had such great technical ability as a pianist and such a remarkable gift for interpretation on the piano, that it became his instrument and the brand he preferred was Mason & Hamlin, of which he wrote: “The Mason and Hamlin pianos represent the most perfect example of the piano maker’s art. They are the most supremely beautiful instruments that I know.â€
Maybe that's why it isn't played a lot.
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