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Everyone I know, especially here uses Alfred Piano course book 1 and I just did a quick Google and book 1 is published in 1983. I thought people would prefer the most up to date course books no? I am planning to check out Alfred tonight and hopefully I will use that for my main Piano course book. Do you guys use this with a teacher or do you self teach yourself with Alfred? I want to show this to my teacher, but not sure yet. Also how long will book 1 going to take me to complete? lets say I do complete book 1 what grade equivalent is book 1? Grade 1? Just wondering.
Last edited by Cutestpuppie; 10/27/16 11:15 AM.
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The best thing you can do "cutest" is to stop analyzing everything and just go to your lesson.
Your teacher and you will have a discussion about what it is you hope to learn.
Then, your teacher will decide upon a course of action to help you learn.
All you have to do is practice the material your teacher suggests.
That is the secret to learning to play piano.
All those other questions and concerns may be "fun" to discuss but are not very useful in your quest to learn how to play the piano.
Just a thought.
Good Luck
Don
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I am very curious puppie and I have many questions to ask. I am a clueless stray puppie
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I am using alfred. I personally consider it to be a 'method' or 'style' of instruction that has its proponents and detractors. reading around there is a lot of debate on how certain things should be taught but as a student of the course I'm not really in a position to says what's the best way. I found that once I was a few lessons in that each 'lesson' taught me something new and that these steps were well paced and gave a sense of achievement.
If a teacher I was considering using did not have an intimate knowledge of 'alfreds' then I'd expect them to have firm convictions for a different 'method' and be able to explain exactly why...
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The best thing you can do "cutest" is to stop analyzing everything and just go to your lesson.
Quote for truth. But to be honest, I am guilty of it too. My teacher started us with Bastien. I looked up the book review on Amazon, some like it, some doesn't. And from those review, I know about Alfred and many others. Then from this forum I know about Fundamental Key. So I discussed them with my teacher. My teacher said "the reason why children learn much faster compare to adult because they don't question a lot. They just practice. And it doesn't matter what method book we're using, you still have to practice, still have to spend the same amount of time in order to advance. So why not just enjoy the process and these are stepping stones anyway. Depend on your progress but in a few years time you'll be working on repertoire anyway." Hahaha guess what, the adult in me still keeps looking but I don't discuss with my teacher about it anymore. I just follow her instructions and always try to complete all the assignment as good as possible. And my progress has been really good. Being an adult, we can process information fast. That's why we always have questions, look for more answers. Give a kid some information, and it may be a lot to them already. So they just take it and during free time they'll just focus on kid's stuffs so they don't have the urge to look deep into it. It's different with adult. But in the end, I've learned that there is no shortcut, no magic method, reading a thousands book doesn't make my fingers move any better. Practicing does.
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My teacher said "the reason why children learn much faster compare to adult because they don't question a lot. They just practice. And it doesn't matter what method book we're using, you still have to practice, still have to spend the same amount of time in order to advance. So why not just enjoy the process and these are stepping stones anyway. Depend on your progress but in a few years time you'll be working on repertoire anyway."
Hahaha guess what, the adult in me still keeps looking but I don't discuss with my teacher about it anymore. I just follow her instructions and always try to complete all the assignment as good as possible. And my progress has been really good.
Being an adult, we can process information fast. That's why we always have questions, look for more answers. How right your teacher is . In my line of work, the ones who do worse are those who keep questioning not just what they are doing (what I've told them to do) but keep looking for alternatives. Easier alternatives, "faster" alternatives, more "high-tech" alternatives. Guess what? They're being seduced by marketing, advertising, glitzy stuff. The internet is full of those. In the end, the ones who persevere with the tried-and-tested methods progress steadily. Yes, there will be bumps along the way, setbacks even, but they improve. When I'm on the other side myself, learning to do stuff entirely new to me, whether it's technical ice-climbing, white-water kayaking, or any other highly technical skill, I don't keep questioning my instructors, or keep asking the reason why I have to do this or that, or look up YT videos to find people who do things differently, and then doubt my instructors. My life may be in their hands (unlike when I was learning the piano, where split-second decisions aren't a consideration ), and I trust them. Even when what they want me to do seems counter-intuitive.......
If music be the food of love, play on!
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I took piano lessons as a kid for 4 years with the Schaum and John Thompson books, which were almost completely focused on learning pieces.
There are some very obvious improvements in the Alfred series - with theory, aural skills, and other associated skills mixed in with the pieces. I didn't realize how much my lack of music theory knowledge was an impediment as a kid, but I've definitely realized that as an adult.
I'd say that if your teacher has you on any well-rounded learning program, then you're in good shape.
I'd rather play badly than not at all...
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". . . And it doesn't matter what method book we're using, you still have to practice, still have to spend the same amount of time in order to advance. So why not just enjoy the process and these are stepping stones anyway. Depend on your progress but in a few years time you'll be working on repertoire anyway." . . .
+1 ! FWIW -- "Learning piano" hasn't changed much in the 60 years I can remember, and probably didn't change much in the 60 years preceding that. There's a certain amount of stuff that needs to be mastered -- note-reading, rhythm, dynamics, hand positioning, theory, scales / chords / arpeggios. Different "methods" will give those things different emphasis, and introduce them at different points in the learning process. There's no reason why a "newer method" is any better than an "older method". Its examples might be more current -- Nine Inch Nailz (I'm showing my age) instead of Bach and Mozart -- but what it has to teach, hasn't changed. And the order of teaching them has been disputed, and will continue to be disputed. If you _know_ that you won't be playing classical music, a "jazz method" (with non-classical examples) might be worth investigating. It'll give you different chords and scales to learn, than a "classical" method. But the _basics_ of piano playing are going to be the same, for all genres.
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
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Everyone I know, especially here uses Alfred Piano course book 1 and I just did a quick Google and book 1 is published in 1983. I thought people would prefer the most up to date course books no? .... No, IMO. As far as an ideal, its good to keep an open mind for what may be new regarding an old topic, but piano learning has been going on a long time, not sure how much is really new to be exposed under this particular sun but, it somewhat comes with the territory of the modern media 24-7-365 Internet virtual information territory for people to look for revised explanations of traditional activity. Puppie, count me as one person you know, virtually, not using Alfreds, nothing personal, Alfreds seems quite popular and effective, but I currently use Bastien Beginner Piano For Adults, based on recommendation from instructor. I do oftten ask questions but when my lessons began, I had no inclination to question - why use Bastien? Now that I have progressed for 2.5 years, I am happy with the content, direction and results. There are umpteen Alfreds books / titles and I have gone online various times looking for one in particular and got swamped in a sea of Alfreds titles not always easy to quickly determine the distinction between Alfred's This book and Alfreds That book, however, instructor had a couple additional books in mind for me to progress into after completing the Bastien books, Journey Through The Classics, and an Alfreds book series, the precise name escapes me at the moment but I made a point in making a handwritten note near the back of Bastien book 2 of 2 because of the many Alfred's titles. I must admit, the notion that children learn faster than adults because they are obedient, compliant and don't ask questions ..... may have some credence but fails to mention that the nature of a child's body compared to a mature adult's, is that they are fertile grounds still growing and developing rapidly - including the brain and neural pathways - an ideal time for learning many new skills, especially complex skills, some of which children learn obliviously compared to those pesky adults with established skills and attitudes who ask questions .... some of these old dogs can learn new tricks .... depends upon the dog and trick . 😀
Last edited by drewr; 10/27/16 06:04 PM.
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I'm using Alfred's and I really enjoy using it with my teacher. There are other methods as well that are also great. I didn't pick out the method that I'm using my teacher is the one that chose it along with another technique book and some outside pieces that we select based on my goals.
I can't really answer your question about length of time for the first Alfred's book because I think it varies greatly depending on your time, motivation, etc. For me the first book took about 13-14 months and quite a lot of effort just to get through it in that length of time. Others on here have gone a lot faster and a some slower. It just depends on each person.
The main thing is to simply get started on a method, do what your teacher tells you to do, practice slowly and correctly, and over time you will see great improvement in your skills.
But the key is that learning the piano takes a long time (your whole lifetime really) and it's important to enjoy your journey, celebrate your small successes and work with your teacher on all of the areas where you are having challenges.
Anyway, the main thing is you have a teacher so basically do what your teacher says and you will get there over time with lots of hard work and determination.
Last edited by blackjack1777; 10/27/16 06:43 PM. Reason: poor grammar...as usual
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Personally, I like Alfreds because this is what I used as a child, and this is what I remember and enjoyed.
I do not have too strong of feelings toward particular method books, although I did find that Piano Adventures seemed to jump quite quickly without laying out ideas I would like to lay out to my student. I think this may be why Piano Adventures is popular among students, as it gets you playing some interesting music quite quickly.
As a beginner, it's probably hard for you to do adequate research on method books. That is your teacher's job, who can flip through the method books and recognize what is being taught explicitly in them and maybe what is not. Also every individual is different. Some may progress faster than others. Others may need more supplemental material even with the same method. This variation is seen in siblings under the same teacher.
~piano teacher in training~
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I have used the Alfred Adult study method since starting as a total beginner. I liked it, it got me to a good start (it will be 3 yrs in Feb since I began), but work schedule changes forced me to have to find another teacher. But I was considering a change anyway since I was frustrated with my old teacher only focusing on learning the songs. We touched on theory, technique, etc when it presented itself in the book, but then we moved on to the next song. She didn't make me do scales, fingering exercises, or any other methods to aid in learning. I have other books, but only because I started to want to know more, practice more than one song, etc. My new teacher is the polar opposite. She has a piano studio in her basement, teaches all ages, and has me using Piano Adventures, Level 2 technique, theory, and lesson books. Yes some of the techniques seem "babyish", but they help me with my technique. She's making me use the metronome, which I am slowly starting to appreciate (I had to ask about how to use a metronome with my old teacher, she showed me, but didn't really push me to use it). She also quizzes me on theory, which I am terrible at right now. She has me working on scales, Key signature knowledge (I have none at this time!), and I attended my first group lesson, which I think will help me to learn to play with other musicians. She also incorporates other books I already had. I think any method book will work, but it depends on how in depth you want to be, whether you want a rounded knowledge of playing, or just learn to play simple songs. Alfred's got me off to a good start. Good luck!
Last edited by primdaisy; 10/27/16 08:20 PM.
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Also how long will book 1 going to take me to complete? lets say I do complete book 1 what grade equivalent is book 1? Grade 1? Just wondering.
If this is your chosen method then the time to complete will depend on how long it takes you to effectively pick up the necessary skills. I know it is hard, but it is wise not to think about how long things will take as you have so little control over this. Equally unwise is to compare your progress to others. Your teacher will be your best adviser so hide nothing from them.
Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience. Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10 13x
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To me, learning piano from a teacher, or being in school or at work, can be accomplished is so many ways. What's most important, and often overlooked, is determining student's (or employees/clients) goals and objectives. I've trained people in work, and my guidance is usually "learn it the way I'm telling you, prove you can do the work that way, then see if you can do it another way that you prefer, while still accomplishing the work".
At the beginning my teacher wasn't sure what to do with me. She was used to teaching children, most who's parents "put" them into piano and wanted them to follow RCM like they did, or heard about. After almost a year we are at a really good place, where I'm taught in a manner that moves me forward at the correct pace, that doesn't cause stress. See, stress-free learning was something I wanted, because I have enough pressure out on me in other parts of my like. If I would have just listened and followed instructions I probably would not have continued with piano. I really like music and wanted to express this in another way, by playing the piano. I could end the goal at "learning piano", and a good teacher should know how to pry out the words that follow - "learning piano...---insert reason here--".
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I use Alfreds but I also use Czerny and Beyer. Those are scarcely new! If something was working well 100 years ago, it probably works equally well now. The instrument has changed minimally and the techniques are the same.
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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Maybe a little off the course of this discussion but it did trigger my thoughts and questions: There is no doubt that we, beginners, must follow what our teachers assign us to do and not to look for "alternatives" or try to evaluate our teachers method. This is like getting a prescription from a doctor and then going to Amazon to read what other patients are saying about given medication. But still, the reasoning that "children don't ask questions" doesn't buy me at all. First of all, I myself was asking questions since time I remember myself and later when I was teaching children (math) they asked me questions. Often, those questions were not easy to answer and it required some effort to find a conclusion (btw conclusion not necessarily means to defend my method and to avoid completely what a child was proposing). IMO, good teacher MUST be prepared for ANY question a student may ask, including most "inconvenient" ones. "Don't ask questions and just do what I said" is prerogative of a weak teacher. Back to piano. No one is ideal, piano teachers included. Taking the idea of "just do what your teacher ask" to the extreme we, beginners, should not come here to PW with our questions. I fully respect my teacher and always try first to do my home work whatever she assigned. And I think we do have a good progress. But I still feel that she leaves some important parts out of the scope of our course. Yes I tried to discuss those parts with her. The best answer was "it is too early for you" and the worst one - "you don't need it at all to just play piano". For example, I have gained a lot of very useful info, ideas, explanations, etc. here at PW. But as soon as a discussion here comes to "3rd", "7th", "diminished", "augmented" and alike I am thrown away from that discussion (This is a tip for one who want to dismiss me from a party - just say "7th diminished" and I am gone ). So am not looking for alternatives for my teacher, but I am constantly looking for an additional sources/methods/etc. So in this ocean of different well and not so well known or regarded alfreds, fundamental keys, etc. what can (and should) I do? I don't have much free time and whenever I am at home I am trying to spend it with piano. But I have some time when I am not at home but can at least read theory or even practice with those "interval teaching" software, etc. How not to damage the learning curve that my teacher has in her mind and at the same time to close obvious gaps in that curve? Just thoughts...
Last edited by michaelvi; 10/28/16 06:34 PM.
Started 2016-01-29 Casio Privia PX-760 => Garritan CFX Lite, Ravenscroft 275 => Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 =>ATH-40mx, Sennheiser HD598, JBL LSR305
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But still, the reasoning that "children don't ask questions" doesn't buy me at all. First of all, I myself was asking questions since time I remember myself and later when I was teaching children (math) they asked me questions.
One should ask questions when the answer may be relevant to one's learning. But too many people ask irrelevant questions which put instructors/teachers on the spot as to how far to go towards answering something which detracts from the issue, and frequently leads to more questions. For instance, a student should ask: "How many notes should I play in that trill?" But if he asks: "Why did Mozart write an Alberti bass and not arpeggios for the LH there?" that's pure time-wasting. An answer would lead to more irrelevant questions, and so on, and so on. I get this sometimes in my job. I call these people time-wasters (not to their face ), and put a stop to it quickly, otherwise I'll be running hours late by the end of the day. Ask yourself: Often, those questions were not easy to answer and it required some effort to find a conclusion (btw conclusion not necessarily means to defend my method and avoid completely what a child was proposing). IMO, good teacher MUST be prepared for ANY question a student may ask, including most "inconvenient" ones. "Don't ask questions and just do what I said" Are those questions relevant to what the teacher is teaching at that time? Or are you just wasting your precious lesson time - and his? I don't have much free time and whenever I am home I am trying to spend it with piano. But I have some time when I am not at home but can at least read theory or even practice with those "interval teaching" software, etc. How not to damage the learning curve that my teacher has in her mind and at the same time to close obvious gaps in that curve?
May I suggest Charles Rosen's 'Piano Notes' for great insight and entertaining erudition from a master musician and pianist? It won't take up too much of your precious time.......
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Alfred had the old "Creating Music at the Piano" books by Palmer and Lethco in the 70s, which were fresh and highly regarded at the time. Method, theory, and recital books (addition rep). I liked playing from them as a child.
This series morphed into others as time went by, with somewhat deterious results IMHO (mirroring all that William Bennett "back to basics" in public education crap in the 80s, to be blunt 😀).
James Bastien reviewed the "Creating Music" series in his book about teaching piano, calling it a "landmark" approach (which focuses on reading ease across the grand staff). I don't think the late Dr. Lethco liked that, and emphasized more "multi-key" elements (like the Bastien approach) in the later Alfred series. Since then, especially in teaching adults, came the "chords" and fake book approaches.
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Just to echo Bennevis, my teacher said that because we asked too many "time-wasting" questions that did not end up helping any of us. Like me, I used to ask her "why didn't you use this book or that book" or "i've heard [on the internet] this book is really good" etc. That's when she replied with "children don't ask". But she always welcomes relevant questions even encourage us to ask questions all the time.
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Alfred had the old "Creating Music at the Piano" books by Palmer and Lethco in the 70s, which were fresh and highly regarded at the time. Method, theory, and recital books (addition rep). I liked playing from them as a child.
This series morphed into others as time went by, with somewhat deterious results IMHO (mirroring all that William Bennett "back to basics" in public education crap in the 80s, to be blunt 😀).
James Bastien reviewed the "Creating Music" series in his book about teaching piano, calling it a "landmark" approach (which focuses on reading ease across the grand staff). I don't think the late Dr. Lethco liked that, and emphasized more "multi-key" elements (like the Bastien approach) in the later Alfred series. Since then, especially in teaching adults, came the "chords" and fake book approaches. And .... as in most things .... The students that just do their best to "please" the teacher with their effort, regardless of the material being used, are the ones that begin to excel. And ... as in most things ... The students that are always questioning things on the outside chance of getting something "easier" or "better", seem to lag behind and never really get anywhere. There is nothing quite so dependent on time spent on task (practicing) as learning to play piano. I strongly encourage less thinking, and discussing, and more practicing.
Don
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