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Hi

As I'm an adult beginner on the piano (but with some classical training at the organ as a kid), I'm going through Alfred's Adult All-in-One Piano Course, books 1-3.

After four years of classical organ I estimate that I reached ABRSM leel 4, maybe 5 (with regard to piece difficulty), after comparing organ pieces I played back then to exam pieces in the current ABRSM piano syllabus.

However, Alfred's AiO 3 has Bach's Toccata in D minor in it, and Moonlight Sonata. I played the first in my fourth year, but to be honest, it was above my level. I could play it, but by the skin of my teeth. Never played the ML Sonata on organ. (Don't know if it's even possible to do well.)

To which ABRSM levels can the Alfred books be compared? I can't believe the Toccata and Moonlight are below level 5, maybe even 6, but I also don't believe the Alfred books go up to level 5-6.

The "ambitious section" at the end of book 3 of Alfred's is about grade 5 or so, but they are a jump above the teaching pieces in the rest of the book. I don't this Alfred 3 is above ABRSM 3 or so. An ABRSM exam also includes much more than what is presented in the Alfreds Adult series. That is just my opinion, having started back on piano with Alfred OIO 3, and moving into repertoire from there.

I guess you mean only the first movement of the Moonlight, though I have no idea how you would play the different dynamics on an organ. PianoSyllabus (http://pianosyllabus.com) says it's grade 7 although I think it's a bit easier than that. I'm playing it with my teacher right now after 2 years and he says I'm doing well. The main difficulty is the different dynamic levels in the same hand.

The Toccata in D minor is grade 9 according to PS, so unless it's a simplified arrangement that's quite advanced.

I think we should determine which piece we are talking about.

I think the OP is talking about the well-known (Toccata from) Toccata & Fugue in D minor, BWV 565 for organ (as we know it, though it might not have been composed for organ originally, and may not even be by JSB....), not Toccata in D minor, BWV 913 for harpsichord.

If it's BWV 565 (without the fugue), it's not that difficult, whether on piano (with modifications) or organ.

P.S. This could well be the original form of BWV 565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tu63ypB6I

BWV 565 indeed. It was the reason why I started classical organ. It took me 3 months or so to learn the Toccata back then as a kid, the rest of the year for the Fugue, and I never managed to play the entire piece in one go without mistakes. I quit organ shortly after that.

If BWV 565 is not by Bach, then... uh... I will be devastated.

I like BWV 565 when played with a lot of power (organ), or very delicatedly (harp, guitar), but the piano sits somewhere in between, not attaining the power of the organ, nor having the delicacy of a harp or guitar.

I'll go and find a few piano renditions, but to find this piece at the end of Alfred 3 was quite a surprise.

I think this is quite powerful :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-t91r0Wing

It sounds OK, but (IMHO), it doesn't even come close to the organ. If I had to choose a keyboard instrument other than the organ for BWV 565, I'd rather take the (pedal) harpsichord with two manuals.

Actually, one of my favorite instruments to play is the harpsichord with sustain pedal touch sensitive keys... Pianoteq, and most digital piano's can do that. I like to believe Bach would have liked such an instrument.

I was referring to this: http://pianosyllabus.com/detail.php?ref=779
But indeed I see that it's the toccata & fugue.

By necessity, any performance of BWV 565 on the piano is someone's arrangement - this one is Busoni's. There are a few other versions of it.

Tausig's (which Katsaris played in my earlier link, along with his own elaborations) is more tricky.

Actually, I would like to learn this piece (BWV 565) one day. You say it's not that difficult. How would you rate just the toccata then?

This version by Louis Brassin (which is closest to the organ 'original') is probably Grade 5-6 ABRSM.

http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/6/63/...ccata_and_Fugue_in_D_minor__BWV_565_.pdf

Well, it looks difficult to me but maybe it's easier than it looks. Saved the link for when my technique catches up to my ambition (See? I learned something from you! ).

All the pieces in the ambitious section of Alfred's book 3 are as others have stated, way beyond the grade level of the pieces in the book. Seems a bit misleading for the book to say if you have studied each book well you are ready for the ambitious section. If we accept that book 3 is equivalent to ABRSM grade 3 (and I am not convinced it is) then we would not say to to anyone, once you have done your grade 3 you are ready for a grade 7 piece.

Well, if if the Toccata of BWV 565 is about ABRSM 5-6, and it was difficult but doable for me (on organ), then my estimate of having attained a level akin to ABRSM 4-5 seems to be correct Nice to know.

Now, if I can ever regain that on the piano, at least with regard to classical music, I'd be happy enough.



Fair enough; I'm mainly going through the Alfred books to pick up reading a bass clef again. I know all of the theory already, and I can sight-read most pieces in Book 1, slowly. I They are short enough to remember after 2-3 slow playthroughs, and then I can play them at speed. I expect that I have to practice a bit more once I hit books 2 and 3.

I hope that, by Book 3, my reading of the bass clef is sufficiently up to scratch to play some pieces from the Notebook for Magdalena Bach and some Little Preludes, Inventions, and a bit of the easier Scarlatti and Clementi pieces with more confidence.

It's vexing that I can just sit and play the right hand immediately, at 80-100% speed, but then have to play the left hand at like 25% speed or so.

Even if I remember the left hand so I don't have to read it, the 'classical music left hand' is different different enough to the 'popular music left hand' that playing it is hard... even if it's easy with regard to notes.

I mean, I have many chord progressions (often in the form of arpeggio's and rhythms) in the muscle memory of my left hand, and classical music breaks those. Badly.