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My wife and I bought a Marshall & Wendell baby grand a few years ago at a yard sale without knowing its history. It needs some restoration work, and we're trying to determine if it's worth pursuing. What I'm not clear on is how to determine the piano's age. The *only* "numbers" I can find are behind the keyslip and under the music stand tray (have to slide out and turn over). Nothing underneath the strings or close to the treble portion of strings/soundboard. Here are the pictures:

The piano -



Behind keyslip:




Under music stand:



There is nothing on the soundboard or frame like other Marshall & Wendell pianos I've seen:



The only reference I see to Marshall & Wendell serial numbers start with 26500 in 1900. Is this piano then something from the 1800s, or am I misinterpreting the serial for a part number? Would part numbers be stamped in these areas?

My theories are that either
1) Yes, this is a really old Marshall & Wendell and that's why it doesn't look like some of the others from the 1900s that I see on eBay or wherever
2) No, this is some cheap stencil piano made to look like Marshall & Wendell, and the 2314 isn't a serial number related to M&W.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


Michael

The 2314 is probably the case number, the number used to correlate the parts of the piano while it is being built. I cannot say whether this is a genuine Marshall & Wendell, but I would not expect that to be a name someone would fake on a piano.

I'm afraid I can't be of much help, but I agree that those numbers "2314" are consistent and does appear to be the serial number. On the other hand, the numbers could represent matching components during construction.

The key-tops look like they've been replaced, and, perhaps other work done.

I doubt you'll find a better source of info than here on PW, with all the experts here (which I'm not ).

Me? If I were you, I'd play it and enjoy it as much as possible. I doubt it would be worth investing $ for a complete rebuild; but that is certainly your decision.

Good luck!

Rick

I had a 1924 M&W 5' baby grand. The number was on the plate at the front treble end. This piano looks quite a bit different. Here are some photos of the 1924 M&W.

Thanks all for the input thus far (and if anybody has any further ideas, please respond)! If this is a serial number, would it be abnormal for it to be stamped in multiple places like this? I guess I'm having trouble differentiating between the serial and case numbers.

As Dave pointed out, it certainly looks different than a Marshall & Wendell from the 1920s ... but if this is from the 1800s, perhaps the design was more basic back then?

I also don't think this has ivory keys, but Rick pointed out ... keys may have been replaced at some point.

What color are the bass strings? Do they look like copper or silver?

Sometimes the serial number is stamped into the sound board, and can be difficult to locate if the sound board is dirty. As you're standing at the keyboard, it might be in an area of the sound board under the strings closer to you than the far end of the piano. It could be to the far left, the far right, or right in the center. Try using a soft, clean, long-bristled paint brush...working the bristles down in-between the strings. You can work the dust away this way, and using the nozzle of a vacuum cleaner while you use the paint brush will help.

I highly doubt the numbers you show in the photos are the serial number.

Thanks Eric - strings are copper -



The soundboard is certainly dusty but I can see the wood grain in most places (or so I think). Here's the treble portion close to the keyboard:



Am I looking In the right place?

It is often difficult to know where the right place is. It could be on the left, the right, in the center, or through one of the holes in the plate.

It does not look like a high-quality piano.

Today I tuned a Marshall and Wendell grand, one I've tuned on a regular basis for about 20 years. I keep records on all the pianos I tune, including serial numbers, so I know I found the serial number on this one when I first tuned it. It took me a few minutes to find it today, though.

Try looking at the very right front part of the plate, in the corner nearest the highest treble tuning pins. If the serial number is there, it is very small and faint, stamped onto the plate in black ink.

We had the piano evaluated by a piano technician. It is in fact worthless. Prior owners at some point in the past 100 years used some type of adhesive on the tuning pins to keep them in place, making it now impossible to tune. Everything else that was suspected to be wrong and needing repair does actually need repair.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sorry it was bad news. It often happens with old pianos of less well known brands though.

Better to know at this stage rather than after you had spent some money on it.

I hope everyone is well and safe. I have a M&W serial number 102360. Can anyone advise year of build? thanks!

About 1924.

Thanks! I looked for a master list of serial numbers and dates, but could only find the ranges. This is very helpful. Can I ask how you know? BTW, it sounds very good, although the original keys have been replaced and there are a few other odds and ends needing slight attention. I might putter with it in my dotage. Thanks again!

...and there goes my suggestion, that the harp had been re-gilded (ok, repainted), painting over the SN. So, get one of those cameras that art restorers use to see what is beneath the surface of a fine art canvas.

It worked for Perry Mason. Nice virgin post for Sea Breeze, at least. Welcome to PW!

There is a book that correlates serial numbers with the dates of pianos.

Thank you. I suspect there is a thread on this forum about minimal piano restoration. I vacuumed the 50 year old dust out already and did the simple cleanup. Since I play so badly, it sounds great to me. Thanks again.

Get it tuned, and get anything minor thing that affects playing fixed, and play it until it no longer sounds great to you. If that day comes, you can get something better.