Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Soooo, you can't afford lessons....or maybe you can???

This is too harsh, imo. Most of us have had one or two or maybe three teachers. Teachers have had dozens if not hundreds of students over the years and from that they arrive at certain generalizations based on their experience. At the same time, one can hope that teachers realize that these are what they are, generalizations, and that many exceptions occur.

Both. It's a blow to the ego to admit instruction is needed, and then they beat themselves up when they can't immediately make good on that instruction.

Having spent the time talking it through with at least a dozen adult students over the last years, I do not agree as a general thing - though on occasion, yes. Typically an adult student will want instruction, but will believe that perfection is expected, and also hold beliefs such as if they don't play well right away, it is lack of "talent", that a teacher wants to see this "talent", and if it is not seen, that teacher will secretly wish they would go away. There is no "admitting" instructions are needed (an ego thing) but rather, being too shy and sort of feeling "unworthy". Not everyone, but many people.

I have also seen miscommunication and misinterpretation. The adult will think that their playing must be perfect, and will apologize and find reasons for imperfection, because that lack if perfection is seen as a failing. There is fear and embarrassment behind that. When I read the teacher forum when I first joined, I'd see that same behaviour seen as "wanting to show off", "wanting to appear perfect", "making excuses". If there was any hint of disapproval, this would simply reinforce the fear of not being good enough for the teacher.

A student may also believe that he must play musically, wonderfully, and those attempts can be seen as "not settling down on the simple things that have been taught" and "wanting to show off an impress" instead. My dialogue started before PW with a fellow student, a viola student. We wrote back and forth. At one point I postulated that if a teacher stressed even timing, then the teacher wanted to see signs of even timing having been practised during the week. I'll never forget her response. "Is that all? with a huge sigh of relief.

There is a great potential for miscommunication on both sides, extrapolating motives and expectations. That is why I prefer to read about factual behaviours and factual expectations, rather than things about underlying attitudes.

Very astute observations

We adult, especially 'very mature' adult, students have not been 'learners' since we left school (in most cases). The rest of our lives we are pretty much expected to be very good at what we do, even when we learn new things. When were you last told at work "Here's some new software (or whatever) you need to work with/work out. Please take your time, take years if you need to, to figure it out/make it work" ??? Nah, I didn't think so So getting our heads around the fact, that we now stand before a task that will take us years and years (and constant instructions) to do even moderately well, can be difficult.

As an adult, I've had a few piano teachers compared to piano teachers having many students...but also *as an adult*, I've been part of many organizations, met many people of all ages, taught classes, facilitated seminars, managed departments, developed many students and employees. For a teacher to say that an adult student won't take classes because they aren't humble enough to take instruction is a myopic viewpoint and reeks of stereotyping.

Well, it's just an opinion that is formed on my experiences of teaching for 18 years. When the vast majority of adult students you've taught over a long period of time are like this, one tends to create generalizations. Often stereotypes have some basis in fact. This is why many piano teachers don't take on adult students, by the way.

I do still take adult students and always hope for the best, but I have no delusions that lessons will last. All I can do is hope that they learn something in retrospect.

I'm so sorry to hear that this has been your experience. Since I've heard other teachers say much the same about adult students, I don't doubt your observations.

I consider myself fortunate to live in a metropolitan area where there are a fair number of dedicated adult piano learners. Some started as adults, others came back to piano after playing in childhood and giving it up for decades.

The adult music lovers with whom I associate are passionate about lessons, practicing, and getting together with each other to play. Some of us are good, some are so-so, and some of us have a great deal yet to learn. But we all love making music more than most of the rest of the stuff in our lives.

I like to think that if you had a lot of adult students of that nature, you might feel differently.

Music teachers accept peanuts, so my parents could afford paying for lessons but could not afford the cheapest piano. There weren't any piano for rent, so I learned to play violin and I am glad I did. I had played in orchestra many years and made many friends long before I had money (eh, no necessarily mine) for a piano. Once I got a piano, I found a nice old teacher who was a church musician. He also accepted peanuts, nay $1 per lesson and enjoyed friendship.

So you can't afford? I believe it, but why insist on learning piano and not music?

Based on your generalization, adults wouldn't take college courses...or any other instrument, and we know that is not a fact.

Needless to say, I think this thread was focused on various ways we afford lessons, don't afford lessons, thoughts on paying or not paying high prices for lessons, etc., not a "reasons why adult students don't take lessons from teachers". And it's definitely not a shot at various students' humbleness or lack thereof. Perhaps that would be a good thread topic on its own?

Where I live, you can get an acoustic piano totally for free if you are lucky. Last time I saw such an offer, they even offered to bring it home to you, at no cost, "or else it has to go to the city dump". The piano looked really nice.
Unfortunately the guy was not smart enough to give his offer in time. He put this post up on Facebook, and 15 minutes later the piano went away to ... the city dump. But during the next hours, many people showed their interest in that piano. Sorry, it was literally dumped.

:'(

Hi Jazzymac,
Really, the uniqueness of teaching adult students has been discussed frequently both here and in the Teachers' Forum and the topic always seems to create a schism between the two groups without resolution.

Don't you think this has been discussed enough not to be started again as a new thread?

If a topic is (un) worthy of discussion, far be it from me to say yay or nay to a new thread, so no worries about that. However, the topic of this thread is apparent, intimated, and assumed. I'm not certain how paying for lessons in any way compares to showing humility to take lessons...although, I know that a connection CAN be made; it's a far reach.

I wrote in about this before. There are the observations of what a teacher sees adult students do. There are extrapolations as to WHY they do it. You can see the same thing happen over and over with student after student (or teacher after teacher) but if your conclusions as to why it's happening are wrong, then potential solutions will continue being missed. I wrote about this in my previous post, with some concrete examples.

I do not agree that discussing this issue only leads to schism. In the past it has led to solutions, to ways for adult students to approach teachers including in a preventive manner by knowing there are issues, and I have also seen a greater understanding happening on the teacher side. On the student side, a novice may come in with preconceptions, and if those can be nipped in the bud, then it may get off to a much better start.

I was caught out in this because I started my other instrument with an experienced teacher, and since that teacher had seen that adults are intimidated by the technique he could give, I ended up advancing quickly in grades without the tools. When - after several YEARS - I told him what kinds of things I was after, these were the very things he would have loved to teach, but hadn't dared to. It was all about communication. The specter of what teachers experience with the students before us is an element that can affect our lessons. I learned at that time that simply following instructions in the lesson and at home is not enough. That specter has to be addressed, or the instructions themselves can go awry.

*like*

Where did I say that adult students shouldn't take lessons?

OT: As I stated before, if someone wants something badly enough, they find a way. Once I had a student who couldn't afford to stick with lessons (he was a child) and his father asked if they could get a discount if he cleaned my studio. We worked out an arrangement and it was a great compromise.

I wouldn't have done that with someone I hadn't worked with for a while, and I don't think "free" is actually a good thing since I feel it diminishes the value of the thing given in the mind of the receiver over time - something I've learned from giving free lessons in the past - but partial trade-out can work.

But once a person offered to paint paintings for me in exchange, and not pay at all. Well, I need money to pay for things more than I need paintings so I turned that down. There are creative ways to arrive at something that will work for both parties.

This is also why I offer a special rate for students who can only afford a lesson once in a while. They pay as they go, and it's slightly higher than my normal hourly rate, but it's affordable and there's no commitment. So if you can only afford one lesson a month, then that's doable and it's better than nothing. I think if a person had to either pinch pennies or do an odd job like dog or cat sit for a neighbor they could come up with the extra money.