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I've frequented the forum and finally decided to registered and in search of some advice...
I'm 45, until 2 years ago I never played an instrument and could not read music. Inspired by a new to us Yamaha G2 and the wonderful sound it makes (my dtr. plays) I started learning to play with the Joy tunes iPad app. After several months I decided to study weekly with the same teacher my daughter has.
My teacher is in her early 20s, recent college grad with a music major (I'm likely her only adult student). It's been over a year taking lessons and I'm starting to wonder if I need to make a switch, but wanted some feedback as to what I should expect from and how to find a good teacher.
Currently she selects most of the music, much of which I enjoy, but lessons are little more than me playing what I've been working on, while she points out incorrect notes/rhythm etc. I ask lots of questions, about theory, practice strategies, but in general if I don't ask questions, I get little more than feedback on what I just played. While it's certainly helpful, I've been leaving lessons a bit discouraged in recent months. More and more I'm feeling like I'm directing the lesson and my progress in general . I'd really like someone to offer more guidance, encouragement, help me come up with goals, and push me to reach them.
I really enjoy playing, much more than I ever anticipated. I play daily averaging 7-8 hrs/wk.
So what might be some good questions to ask potential piano teachers?
What does a good piano lesson look like?
Am I expecting too much?
Thanks in advance & Happy Holidays.
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I am also an adult student and have been doing this for about 10 years so I have some thoughts on this subject.
My direction has evolved into jazz standards, so my needs might not be the same as yours.
However, the main thing I need from my teacher is keeping me going in the right direction.
If I am left to my own devices, I invariably will begin to wander and lose focus.
Then I will become discouraged and wonder if I should keep doing this.
So ... I think your teacher needs to convince you that you are "doing fine" and moving in the right direction.
If you still are enjoying it, that is half the battle ... but you do need reassurance periodically that you are doing the right things.
Good Luck
Last edited by dmd; 12/05/16 12:08 AM.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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Ryan, you are not expecting too much, and I'd say it *is* time for a change of teachers. One obvious idea is to find a teacher who is at least your age, or who has been teaching for a decade or more. But I'm being unfair to a beginning teacher in her 20s in saying this: I was a beginning teacher in my 20s at one time, as were most of us veteran piano teachers.
But what would be great for you to find - and is not easy to find - is a piano teacher who actually has experience with adult learners, and who likes her experiences with adult learners. They're around, but rarely are they to be found in obvious places.
Talk to a couple of local church organists, and a couple of local jazz or pop pianists, for recommendations. Talk to any theory or composition prof at a local college. In a city as small as Duluth, one or two names will start turning up on more than one person's list.
Take a paid lesson or two without further commitment from this person or persons, and then size them up. You might end up deciding to stick with your present young teacher after all, but you will have had some points of comparison.
And you might attend a summer retreat week for adult beginning pianists next year. There are a few of these scattered about.
P.S. Welcome to PianoWorld!
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I ask lots of questions, about theory, practice strategies, but in general if I don't ask questions, I get little more than feedback on what I just played.
Don't give up on your questions, unless teacher Suzy gets annoyed. You are inviting her to become a better teacher.
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welcome to the forum Ryan, More and more I'm feeling like I'm directing the lesson and my progress in general . I'd really like someone to offer more guidance, encouragement, help me come up with goals, and push me to reach them. this is a terrible situation to be in and one I found myself in not once but twice as I moved between teachers. There is an issue that not all teachers are able to teach or cope with adults and our pesky need to enquire past basic instruction. However it is also hard to know what a teacher is really thinking. I found myself second guessing whether my teachers were deliberately waiting until I was ready for more information, or had advanced technically to a stage where more instruction could be incorporated. I also have to admit, that might not have been such a bad strategy for a teacher to employ in my second year, when I knew just enough to be dangerous  I felt as you did; especially that I was self directing the lessons and consequently my teaching regime. I changed teachers for the third time but this time I believe I struck gold. My current teacher is a retired school music teacher, however she has also taught many adults in her own studio and understands me better than I do. The big difference seems to be most of her teaching has been to get people through exams, not just to pass but to do well (my previous teachers either had few to no exam students). As a result she does not allow mistakes to go unchecked, as well as having an eagle eye and even better ears. I came to her after my third year and she spotted all my problems at once and has been helping me find my way back onto the right path since. What would I specifically look for: 1. a teacher who can sight read well, my teacher will often play at least one of the parts to accompany me. I never had that before and it can be so beneficial. 2. someone with experience - my teacher has been doing this for fifty years. 3. a teacher who is immediately assertive, but be warned with a teacher like this you have to work hard In finding my current teacher I just googled the local teachers association. However knowing what I know now I could have approached teachers for advice at our local conservatory. I can't believe how nice and helpful these teachers are when you show you are enthusiastic to learn, (I now take theory lessons there). Be prepared to spend more, but a good teacher is worth it.
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Adult students are a challenge - I know, since I have been a challenge for years now.
None of your teacher's non-adult students ask the kind of questions you do. They don't do their own research. They don't ask questions that put the teacher on the spot. They don't question the authority of their teacher or doubt her answers.
My former teacher was fond of saying she was my coach and not my teacher. My current teacher is a University professor, so she is more used to dealing with older students, although I am 40 years older than the college kids.
Sam
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I've run across a phenomenon at least once. That time a mother had been attending her young son's lessons, and finally decided she wanted to have lessons too. The teacher had been thorough and guiding with her son. To her great puzzlement, when she took lessons with the same teacher, that teacher seemed strangely laid back, taking time to chitchat in the middle of lessons, and the lessons seemed oddly unfocused. I think that what was behind it was the belief that an adult would have an unserious recreational attitude and would want to be taught in that kind of manner. I don't know what the outcome was. The thing I'm curious about is the fact that your daughter is also being taught by this teacher, and you're probably fine with how she is being taught, or she wouldn't still be taking lessons with her. Therefore, whether you are being taught differently than your daughter. For example: Currently she selects most of the music, much of which I enjoy, but lessons are little more than me playing what I've been working on, while she points out incorrect notes/rhythm etc. Is that what your daughter is getting from the teacher, or is your daughter being given something structured that gradually gives her skills? If so, why wouldn't you be getting the same thing?
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Unfortunately, your experience with your teacher mirrors mine almost exactly. I felt that she just didn't understand my musical interests, and that I had to extract information from her rather than her freely offering it. She even had me order sheet music books, only to say at the next lesson "No - That wasn't the one that I meant," - Twice! (Easy come, easy go, I guess....). The good news for me is that I realized this was a bad fit in relatively short order - two months or so - so I pulled the plug.
The bad news for me is that I live in a very small town - much smaller than Duluth - where piano instruction choices are rather limited.
So, I ended up finding an online course that addresses what I'm interested in and that I can follow at my own pace. No weekly lesson pressure, no muss, no fuss.
It works for me. Perhaps an online course would work for you as well.
Good Luck.
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I guess my wife and I are lucky. Our teacher specializes in Adults, plus for beginners she uses the Faber Piano Adventures books.
I can tell you for me my lessons are anything but laid back! She constantly pushes and challenges me, and I'm not afraid to push back.
Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
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Lots of good advice here. A teacher who is a good match for you will make a big difference in your progress and feelings about piano study.
I'm a restarter. When I studied as a teenager, I think I was pushed too quickly to harder pieces before I knew what I was doing. As an adult I'm willing to start "from the beginning" as needed to patch the big holes in my technique and knowledge. I don't mind playing easier pieces as long I can make them sound musical.
My former teacher was accomplished, knowledgeable, experienced-- but just did not believe that an adult restarter would tolerate being taught "like a child." Our interaction was casual as keystring's friend's teacher, and lessons, self-directed as ~Ryan's, the OP (though I did choose all my own music too). I think she felt I'd quit if it wasn't light and fun. Finally, I got discouraged making a hash of every piece I played. I wasn't comfortable playing anything I learned and considered quitting, thinking it was my lack of talent holding everything back :-)
This year I switched to a new teacher and it's a completely different experience. The new teacher is patient enough to teach all the details and correct until I get it right. She also models how to practice. Maybe this very teacher-directed study wouldn't be right for everyone, but it's really great for me!
Everyone has different goals and it can take some time to it figure out your own. It is a journey, as others have said. If you feel you're not getting what you need from your lessons, discuss it with your teacher or start looking for another. As you look for a new teacher be sure to bring up what you've discussed with us here. Good luck!
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I have an excellent teacher as an adult restarter --- however, I had to verbally express my intent, and demonstrate my intent as an adult before she realized I did not want to zip through music just to check it off a list and move on.
You need to understand that teachers teach all types of adults, so if you are not getting out of your lessons what you need, please verbally tell your teacher. If you are agreeable to learning like a child 'every single step and skill', please say that so that there is no misunderstanding. Not all adults are willing to have delayed gratification. If you want a teacher-directed style, say that. If you want to know how to practice a passage, ask.
We want our teachers to adapt to what we need, but they also need to hear from us what we do need. It needs to be a dialogue rather than a guessing-game which leads to frustration on both sides.
I think most teachers would be delighted to have an adult student who wants that level of skill development and guidance. So, ask for it
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I've frequented the forum and finally decided to registered and in search of some advice...
I'm 45, until 2 years ago I never played an instrument and could not read music. Inspired by a new to us Yamaha G2 and the wonderful sound it makes (my dtr. plays) I started learning to play with the Joy tunes iPad app. After several months I decided to study weekly with the same teacher my daughter has.
My teacher is in her early 20s, recent college grad with a music major (I'm likely her only adult student). It's been over a year taking lessons and I'm starting to wonder if I need to make a switch, but wanted some feedback as to what I should expect from and how to find a good teacher.
Currently she selects most of the music, much of which I enjoy, but lessons are little more than me playing what I've been working on, while she points out incorrect notes/rhythm etc. I ask lots of questions, about theory, practice strategies, but in general if I don't ask questions, I get little more than feedback on what I just played. While it's certainly helpful, I've been leaving lessons a bit discouraged in recent months. More and more I'm feeling like I'm directing the lesson and my progress in general . I'd really like someone to offer more guidance, encouragement, help me come up with goals, and push me to reach them.
I really enjoy playing, much more than I ever anticipated. I play daily averaging 7-8 hrs/wk.
So what might be some good questions to ask potential piano teachers?
What does a good piano lesson look like?
Am I expecting too much?
Thanks in advance & Happy Holidays.
Many/most adult students want to take the reigns in their lessons, so it is possible she is assuming this is the case. And since you are fitting into this role nicely by asking questions, perhaps she has no idea that this is not what you want. At your next lesson, tell your teacher what you wrote above (I put in boldface). Then see how she responds over the next 3-4 lessons. I would like to know how your teacher responds to your questions. Does she have good answers that get results? Or does she dismiss them - perhaps because she doesn't know how to answer them? If she has answers that yield good results when you do them, then she's a good teacher to keep. When I take lessons, I often have specific goals for myself and know exactly what parts of the music that I'm having trouble with. So I will come in and tell the teacher "I need to figure out what to do here" rather than waste time playing the stuff I can already do. This approach makes the most out of the time, and I know as a teacher, I want to get to the nitty-gritty as well. So I don't think you should stop asking questions, and I don't think it's a good thing to completely sit back and let the teacher take over. Then she's just guessing at what you want. But it sounds like you just want more of a direction in where you're going, perhaps have performance opportunities or exams or other benchmarks that can give a little more structure.
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I agree with the sentiment of finding an older, more seasoned teacher. I found myself in a similar situation recently with a very young teacher (20 years old). It simply was unworkable, because there was no planning, and no concept of how to progress. I knew that much of his advice was simply wrong for me.
It is very hard to find a good fit, but I think for an adult player, it is essential to find someone they can relate to, and someone that can lay out the plan of learning. A very young teacher may find they are intimidated by an student much older than them. It was hard for me to end lessons with my young teacher, and I still feel bad that I may have hurt his feelings. However, it is a business arrangement, and you must do what is best for your future development as a piano player.
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Wow! thanks for all the great input.
dmd - some reassurance and encouragement may be all I need
Peter - Actually got a name of someone that plays for the children theatre - Jazz I'm told... Great idea.
earlofmar - good advice for what to look for - hopefully I can't find one of those eagle eyed teachers.
Sam - I'm sure your right. For a new teacher, with just one adult student, I'm sure I'm a bit of a challenge.
keystroking - excellent point, and similar to what morodiene suggested. Taking both of your advice I sent a message to my teacher outlining what I posted previously. She responded positively, and we plan to talk more on Monday when we meet again.
newbert - I've spend some time with the Playground sessions online leaning tool. It's helpful, fun to an extent. They don't include dynamic notation in any of their music - so it remains fairly basic.
BrianDX - Before I started taking lessons I bought a piano for adult beginners book (don't remember title) spent a month or two on it, but the music was quite boring. When I started lessons I sort of asked if I needed to continue with it (didn't like it), but maybe having the outline,progression of a book would be helpful.
ginko2 - "Finally, I got discouraged making a hash of every piece I played. I wasn't comfortable playing anything I learned and considered quitting, thinking it was my lack of talent holding everything back :-)" Exactly how I feel. Nice to know someone else went through the same thing and is still playing
dogperson - followed you excellent advice and sent my teacher a message outlining what I'd like - we plan to talk in detail on Monday. Thanks
Morodiene - As above - followed your advice plan to talk with my teacher on Monday. Well see what happens of the next couple weeks. I like you advice about performance/exams... My daughter has a recital this weekend and I'm, playing a duet with her - terrified I am.
SwissMS - She's a humble, quite person. Wouldn't surprise me if our lessons are somewhat intimidating. Inquiring about another teacher - and asking for some direction from my current teacher - maybe a switch is in order - well see
Again - thanks everyone for your input. very very helpful.
happy holidays
ryan
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Let us know how it goes, Ryan!
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welcome to the forum Ryan, More and more I'm feeling like I'm directing the lesson and my progress in general . I'd really like someone to offer more guidance, encouragement, help me come up with goals, and push me to reach them. this is a terrible situation to be in and one I found myself in not once but twice as I moved between teachers. There is an issue that not all teachers are able to teach or cope with adults and our pesky need to enquire past basic instruction. However it is also hard to know what a teacher is really thinking. I found myself second guessing whether my teachers were deliberately waiting until I was ready for more information, or had advanced technically to a stage where more instruction could be incorporated. I also have to admit, that might not have been such a bad strategy for a teacher to employ in my second year, when I knew just enough to be dangerous I felt as you did; especially that I was self directing the lessons and consequently my teaching regime. I changed teachers for the third time but this time I believe I struck gold. My current teacher is a retired school music teacher, however she has also taught many adults in her own studio and understands me better than I do. The big difference seems to be most of her teaching has been to get people through exams, not just to pass but to do well (my previous teachers either had few to no exam students). As a result she does not allow mistakes to go unchecked, as well as having an eagle eye and even better ears. I came to her after my third year and she spotted all my problems at once and has been helping me find my way back onto the right path since. What would I specifically look for: 1. a teacher who can sight read well, my teacher will often play at least one of the parts to accompany me. I never had that before and it can be so beneficial. 2. someone with experience - my teacher has been doing this for fifty years. 3. a teacher who is immediately assertive, but be warned with a teacher like this you have to work hard In finding my current teacher I just googled the local teachers association. However knowing what I know now I could have approached teachers for advice at our local conservatory. I can't believe how nice and helpful these teachers are when you show you are enthusiastic to learn, (I now take theory lessons there). Be prepared to spend more, but a good teacher is worth it. I'm really curious, what did "spotting all your problems at once" entail?
~piano teacher in training~
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