Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai CA67/CA97/CS8/CS11 Serious Bug?

Just to make clear: Yes, I'm confident that Kawai is working on this. I'm not doubting that. I'm only unsure if the product manager's response included the roundtrip to development (I ask him, he asks the devs, they respond to him, he forwards the response to me) - especially taking into account the speed of his reply under the light of there being a big time difference to Japan and yesterday being a public holiday. So when I posted it here, I wanted to qualify his "this takes longer than planned" as likely not being a real feedback from the devs. But who knows, I may be wrong and the response was simply exceptionally prompt.

I haven't heard anything, but I am not surprised for reasons others have already stated. Note for example the timing of the smaller issue with the MP11 that was recently fixed.

I have some news:

Today I got an email from Kawai support with a new beta firmware for the CA97, to test if the MIDI issue is fixed.

And I'm happy that I can report that with all of the tests I did (including some lengthy playing) the MIDI bug indeed seems to be fixed!

Recap: The bug happened if you used MIDI-in via USB-to-host on the CA97 (it may also happen via normal MIDI-in, but I didn't test that). For me it happened in two (related) scenarios, both of those seem to be fixed:

Scenario 1: With the MIDI velocity mapper as described earlier in this thread. The mapper runs on a small PC (a netbook, to be precise) which is connected via USB to USB-to-host on the CA97. On the CA97, "Local Control" is set to "Off", so the CA97 only sends the MIDI events to the PC, where they are received by the mapper. The mapper modifies the velocity values in these events and then sends them back to the CA97, which generates the sound from them. After a short while of playing while using this setup, the piano goes mute. You have to switch it off and on again to restore it to working order.

Scenario 2: Same netbook, same USB connection. A background track software (ChordPulse) runs on the PC which generates the background track as MIDI events that are sent via USB to the CA97. The CA97 generates the sound for the background track (i.e. the background track is not routed via line-in!). At the same time, you play the piano voice on the piano, over the background track. After a short while playing, the background track suddenly goes mute. The piano sound from your own playing is still be there. If you continue to play some more, after a bit even your own piano sound goes mute. Again, you have to switch it off and on again to restore it.

As said: Both scenarios work fine now with the beta firmware.

P.S. I was asked not to share the firmware with anyone, and I'll honor that, so please don't ask me for it. I'm sure that Kawai will officially release it in due time.

Bravo to Kawai, if they're working on it. I'm wondering if they will bother researching and adjusting ( if present) the same behaviour even on older models, as my ca63,where i *think* i canbhear it too.

Fair play to Kawai for sorting it out. Glad to hear you've got it working.

I'm wondering what you mean by you "think you can hear it"?
The MIDI problem that was fixed in this beta firmware is very black-and-white - the piano simply goes mute altogether. So if you have this problem, there is no question about if you hear it or not.

Nothing, my fault: i read superficially and thought the post was about the original touch sensitivity / sample behaviour. Sorry.
Any news aboit this matter?

Ah, I see.

No, I have no news about the velocity issue because I only contacted support about the MIDI bug. And in the beta firmware I have, velocity-wise everything seems to be the same as before. That's fine for me, as I don't have a problem with the velocity curve, unlike the OP (I'm playing with "light" touch anyway).

JoBert, thank you for confirming that the issues you experienced have been resolved by the beta firmware.

I sent the files to Pocomoto also, but have yet to receive his/her confirmation.

The beta version may require a little more internal testing before it can be issue as an official update, however I'll post an announcement on the forum as usual when the full version is released.

Kind regards,
James
x

I'm afraid I don't know if there are any plans to implement this fix on older generation CA models. However, if you are experiencing the same issue, please let me know and I shall report it to the product development team for consideration.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hello James, yes i think i do. I can hear what the thread opener described: i believe on my ca 63 too there is a very harsh top sample layer which looks to be unaccessible, no matter how hard you hit, as long as you are playing with the normal setting, you hear it only if you crank the sensitivity up.

Wouldn't call it a problem, but it would be nice to have the full sample potential unleashed on any sensitivity setting.

By the way, the complete reasons of this setting apparently have not been explained, perhaps there is a reason why this particular behaviour is technically justified, and what we ask is not possible. Just wondering.

Bellicapelli, please note that the ease with which the 'top' sample layer can be reached is a characteristic of the instrument, decided by the product development team.

This is a separate point from the MIDI bug highlighted by Pocomoto and confirmed by JoBert. This bug appears to have been resolved by the beta firmware, which we hope to issue officially in the near future. My question to you was whether you have experienced the same MIDI bug on your CA63.

Kind regards,
James
x

No midi bug on my side, i don't use midi connection at all, so I'm not even in the position to check and notice.

Concerning the touch sensitivity / sample behaviour, i monitored this thread and upon your last post, i even checked a few pages backwards, and didn't spot any prior statement. Did i miss something?

So i learn there's a top sample layer which is *intended* just for high touch sensitivity use.

No I don't believe so.

Pocomoto highlighted an issue related to received MIDI events, which was confirmed by JoBert. A beta version was prepared which resolved the issue. I sent this beta version to Pocomoto, while my colleagues in Germany sent the beta to JoBert. I have yet to receive a reply from Pocomoto, however JoBert has confirmed in this thread that the MIDI issue has been resolved. We will continue to test the beta version before issuing a full public version in the near future.

Kind regards,
James
x

Sorry for very late reply, but I got caught up in real life issues and have not played piano for many weeks. I'm glad Kawai has been able to solve the midi receiving issue and much appreciate the efforts James and others have done to improve customer satisfaction.

hi, no news about a realase date for official firmware ?
Thanks

Not heard of anything.

However if you're after custom touch curves then this:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2627157/Custom_touch_curve_on_Kawai_CA.html

is a far easier way of doing so than looping the midi out and back in via a pc.

thank you, i look for this solution.
but somebody can upload the beta firmware ?

thanks

jeanroger, I have sent you a PM.

Kind regards,
James
x

I also noticed that the velocity curves on my CA67 didn't represent the whole range of values, so the only way to hit more than 100 and reach louder samples was going to light or light+, and to get softer samples you had to do the opposite (and even that way you never get below 35 in heavy+)

I plotted the approximated velocity curves here in case it helps
Velocity Curves CA67