Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Do more expensive DPs have better dynamics?

About a year ago I got back into playing piano after close to 25 years without touching an instrument. I've tried getting back before and it didn't stick, so I started of cheap with a Yamaha P45 (about 400 euros).

Now the Yamaha has served me well so far and I've been surprised by how much I've been playing. I guess the trick really was taking weekly lessons.

One of the things I am struggling with is dynamics. Basically right now I need to choose between being able to play very softly and playing very loudly (by changing the volume). I am unable to do both at the same time. Most of this is surely simply because of my level of playing, but I am wondering if I can expect a major improvement in this area if I upgrade to a better instrument? The Yamaha was ever meant stop gap option until I figure out if I actually want to play the piano or not. It is a fine instrument for 400 euros, but obviously you cannot expect miracles with that price.

I don't have access to very many instruments and since the teacher visits my home I am almost always playing the P45. The few times I've been able to test an acoustic it has felt like I've had less issues transitioning between p and f. When trying to play very lightly on the P45 I tend to play too loudly or produce no sound at all. Is this all an aspect of my amateur level?

I would suggest going to a piano shop and trying other / more expensive DPs. That will answer your question.

It's the P45, not you.

Even on the Clavinova CLP-380 it's difficult (takes more effort) to play soft and gradually get louder, and this instrument uses 5 'dynamic' layers per key.

I myself went from the P115 (very similar to your P45) to a Kawai CA97 (definitely high end) and I can assure you: It's a difference like night and day.

I wanted to add: Regarding dynamics, there are actually two aspects: The first is simply the volume. The faster (with more force) you press the keys down, the louder the tone. Any digitial piano worth its name does this, only a better action makes it easier to control the nuances of this. But the speed/force with which you play is not a simple volume control only. An acoustic piano also changes its timbre according to how loud you play it and a good DP emulates that. p and pp should give a more mellow tone and f and ff should give a more brilliant tone. High end DPs do this much more convincingly than an entry level DP like the P45. So better digitals are better in two aspects, regarding dynamics: The better action makes it easier to control the dynamics and the better timbre makes it sound better and more realistic.

Also think about things like synthetic ivory key toppings, wooden keys, longer keys, better pivot pin balance etc. It can be a HUGE difference in your expression.

When trying to maximize a DP's capability for simulating the sounds of an AP, a general recommendation is to set the DP volume level to max. For headphone users this should naturally lead to adjusting your keystroke for playing softer dynamics. Whether or not this allows you to consistently produce the desired range of p and f is between you and the P45. For speaker / monitor users with a family or neighbors, this may naturally lead to all manner of domestic dynamics 🎶🙉

Have you tried tweaking the P45's Touch setting? See page 14 of this manual -
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=ru&site=ru.yamaha.com&asset_id=64442

- with one setting being Fixed which means there will be no change in volume whether you press the keys lightly or heavily, you effectively have three other settings to try: medium - default setting; Soft - slight changes in volume when plying soft or hard; and Hard - volume level changes very widely from pianissimo to fortissimo to facilitate dynamic and dramatic expression. You have to hit the keys hard to produce a loud sound.

Wooden keys in a digital piano are fluff. It's a selling point, nothing more. If you were blindfolded, you could not discern which actions had wood under the plastic and which didn't.

My guess, the actions with wood are probably better overall and the wood is just a selling point for those who are gullible.

FWIW:

I agree with some of that, but not all.

(1) -- for loudspeaker playing, YES, turn the volume way up. No inexpensive DP plays nearly as loud as an acoustic. It is up to _you_ to learn to control your fingers to get solid "p" and "pp" dynamics.

. . . If you keep fiddling with the volume knob, you won't
. . . learn the skill.

(2) For headphones, sensitive headphones may give more sound than you can tolerate, with the volume control maxed-out. So pound on the keys, and if it sounds "ff" but not painful or distorted, it's about right. If it's louder than you want, turn down the volume . . .

. . . and remember to turn it back up when you unplug the headphones.

(3) The dynamic range doesn't change, when you go from "soft" to 'medium" to "hard" touch. What changes, is how hard you must hit the keys to get to "ff", and how gently you must hit them to get to "pp".

In simple language, "hard" touch de-sensitizes the keyboard -- you have to strike the keys harder, to achieve a given volume level and tone quality. "Soft" touch keeps the same dynamic range, but you don't have to strike the keys very hard to get to "ff".

. . . That's OK for little kids, but not so good for adults,
. . . who expect to be playing on acoustic pianos occasionally.

On the "GHS" action of the P45 / P105 / P115, you might be best with "hard" touch. That's what I use on my PX-350, and it has a heavier action than the "GHS" to begin with.

The "Touch" parameter is badly named. It doesn't change _anything_ about how the keyboard _feels_. It changes the relationship between how hard you strike the key, and the "MIDI velocity" that determines the volume and tone of the sound.

Dave, may I ask if you would have purchased your AvantGrand if it had plastic keys?

Thanks for the input guys. At least now I have something to look forward to when I start looking for an upgrade

Initially I did fiddle a bit with the P45's settings, but ended up leaving them in the default position. It really is a nice piece of kit for the price, but since I had some years of playing behind me when I was younger, I've perhaps outgrown it faster than I expected.

Agreed with point 2.

Of recent I have been devoting time with the Roland 508, Keytouch set to 15 points towards light from the midpoint, with headphones , (fairly inexpensive ISK model that came with this DP) have been playing with max volume so long I've forgotten about it. No problem at all with sound level being too loud no matter how forcefully I stroke the keys. I adjusted Keytouch towards light months ago due to finding the default dynamics too insensitive/quiet for my liking but still no problem at maximum volume.... maybe this would be different / painful with different headphones.

On the other hand, playing the MP7 w/SONY headphones, I prefer Keytouch set to Heavy, 1 click up from default, due to finding the default too sensitive. Often I play with volume set to max with no problem, no pain, no distortion but sometimes with certain passages I do decrease volume about 10% due to being too loud (approaching painful/not distorting) One thing that is consistent between these two DPs models is that when playing along with audio songs via USB, the default Song Volume is too loud on both but nice that both have a setting/knob seperate from main volume to take care of this.

As for point (3) I am willing to concede as I am not sure that I really know what dynamic range is, precisely, at least not enough to firmly say that 2 different touch settings on a DP - lets say Heavy+ versus Light+ - allows each to produce the same range. I do recall prior to swapping an ES7 for MP7, when ES7 was set to Heavy+ compared to any one of the lighter settings, there were certain ff (perhaps more appropriately fff) timbers ( upper range of dynamic range?) that I could not hear .... could not produce no matter how forcefully I played, but I could at a lighter setting. The MP7 has a different & better implementation, to my ears at least, I really like the way the touch setting of Heavy does the job I want at the low end, for allowing me to more consistently play p & pp without losing those upper timbers when playing ff & fff .

I feel a huge difference between GH3X and NWX... but I don't know how much the wood is involved in this difference.

Unfortunately, the P45 (as well as the P95 and all other entry Yamaha pianos before the 105) have a single sample for each note, meaning, you get the exact same tone no matter how hard you press the key.

I probably would have though in this instance Yamaha was selling this product as a hybrid. Had they left out the wood I would have been among the first asking to have it included.

Having 'wooden' keys in a stage piano or keyboard on the other hand, is much like having a remote control for the radio in your car. Sure, it's a selling point, but ... really?

Just curious, but why does it matter when it is a hybrid but not when it is a stage/slab? It either makes a difference in the feel/action or it doesn't, right?

There's no way to compare directly on the kawai side, whereas from what I've seen it may be possible to directly swap a Yamaha GH key with a NW key.

It might be fun to print a couple of ABS GF keysticks for the next teardown, just for kicks.

Not true, I`m afraid. The tone changes electronically and is based on one sample. Other keyboards with multiple samples rely on those for their dynamic range. To avoid a step situation, these too are electronically blended.

Doesn`t mean they`re better, but they usually are.

Just curious, but why does it matter when it is a hybrid but not when it is a stage/slab? It either makes a difference in the feel/action or it doesn't, right?


First, the addition of wood doesn't change the feel of the action, it's just there for show and bragging rights.

An acoustic piano has always had wooden keys and a hybrid is closer to an acoustic than a stage piano\keyboard so the addition of wooden keys is ... natural.

Having wooden keys for a keyboard is a selling point, it doesn't add anything to a blindfolded player. It's much like 512 polyphony being ... better than 256.

If you think wooden keys adds something and you must have it, go for it. The marketing department will thank you.

[quote=Dave Horne

Having 'wooden' keys in a stage piano or keyboard on the other hand, is much like having a remote control for the radio in your car. Sure, it's a selling point, but ... really? [/quote]

It just makes sense for them I suppose manufacturing wise - they use part of their acoustic piano manufacturing and part of their electronic dept.
The benefits felt materials wise well - it is what it is eh. I don't think they can get away with using ABS plastic in their acoustic pianos - the derision there would be justified ^^

The benefits of the longer pivotpoint well that is definitely a plus I reckon. For us living in a climate that goes from hot n humid to cold and dry sure the kawai action would have been welcome but not practical.

Thanks Dave,

Clearly you feel very strongly about this, which is definitely your right. It does come across a bit more like a "statement of fact" than I'd have expected though. I personally can't say how much or little wood impacts a key action, even having played a few "full wood" actions regularly like NWX, RM3, GF, GF2...there are certainly differences in feel/damping/weight, particularly between NWX and GH3 (which I think is the closest direct comparison I've had); but I just can't draw a conclusion to the same level of conviction that Dave has...