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Joined: Jan 2017
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Hi,
I really like the first movement of the Alkan symphony but I'm scared that it might be too hard, and I might kill the piece. Some songs I have just finished playing are, Chopin ballade no.1, Liszt transcedental etude no.10 (last year), Beethoven Appassionata (first and third movement), and I'm planning on learning the Chopin 4th ballade soon. Am I almost at the level to be able to learn it?
I brought it up to my piano teacher about 2-3 months ago and he was a little hesitant on me learning it.
Any help would be great thanks!
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Those aren't "songs" that you have finished playing unless you have transcribed them for singing. If you have indeed "finished" those particular pieces there would be no reason to listen to my advice.
Maybe post a recording and others could try to quantify and qualify what you are ready for.
- Schimmel Upright
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Joined: May 2011
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Alkan Etude Op.39 No.4 is a formidable piece. You have to distill the dynamic range and tonal colors of a symphony into two hands. It also demands utmost clarity of intricate lines and textures, particularly in the development section. However, working on the piece can be an extremely rewarding experience.
Much of the challenge comes from the fact that the piece is not terribly pianistic. It demands a lot from your arms to jump from one chord to another rapidly, while the other hand is doing something completely different. In essence, you have to be the conductor, orchestral musicians, and a pianist all at the same time. The last page is sheer insanity.
Chopin Ballades are not easy pieces, but Alkan Op.39 No.4 is altogether at a different level. I consider it more difficult than all piano sonatas from the Romantic period, except Alkan's own (Op.33) And of course, Op.39 No.7 is at an entirely level again.
Then, there is the rest of Op.39... Oy, vey...
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(Hey, Ken!!)  DYS: I think the piece is doable for you -- or at least try-able -- if you play it at a more moderate tempo than how it 'really' goes. And I actually think the piece could be plausible at such a tempo, although not for performance.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Hi,
I really like the first movement of the Alkan symphony but I'm scared that it might be too hard, and I might kill the piece. Some songs I have just finished playing are, Chopin ballade no.1, Liszt transcedental etude no.10 (last year), Beethoven Appassionata (first and third movement), and I'm planning on learning the Chopin 4th ballade soon. Am I almost at the level to be able to learn it?
I brought it up to my piano teacher about 2-3 months ago and he was a little hesitant on me learning it.
Any help would be great thanks! It's like all of the Liszt Transcendentals plus the Brahms Paganini Var. all rolled into one piece. This may be one piece which, if you have to ask about it, it's too hard. That said, the best approach might be to read through it many times until you become quite familiar with the nature of the difficulties involved (some are unusual), and only then should you decide whether it is doable for you on a technical level. It's also an extremely problematic work to make into a coherent musical whole. Musically speaking, I've never heard a completely convincing performance of it - sometimes I wonder if that is even possible. I want to think it is, but until somebody actually does it....
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[....I've never heard a completely convincing performance of it - sometimes I wonder if that is even possible. I want to think it is, but until somebody actually does it.... The only performance I've ever heard (except for my own sight readings) is the recording that sort of started it all, Raymond Lewenthal's first Alkan LP. I thought and think that it's "completely convincing." I'd be interested (really!) to hear your or anyone else's criticisms of it. I don't mean that I think it's perfect, including because I wouldn't know.  But I do think it's very good, and I don't have any particular criticism of it.
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I'd imagine that part of wr's problem of finding an "ideal" recording of Alkan's symphony is that there aren't nearly as many recordings of it as there are, say the Chopin piano sonatas. I agree with both his and Ken's posts (they are both very intimate with Alkan's music).
Although, I'd say there are no passages in it remotely as difficult as some parts of Liszt's Mazeppa (if you use the real fingering and don't cheat) or Feux Follets. And I'm not sure how to compare it against Brahms' Paganini Variations, either. But yeah, the first movement of the symphony a beast.
The mess of chords (I mean that in the best way possible!) in the coda is very difficult, at least for me. The development has some frustrating leaps and figures as well. To overcome all of these physical difficulties and still balance the many voices and orchestral textures of the work is incredibly challenging. And I'm only pointing out some of the obvious, "virtuoso" difficulties. As Ken said, there are many other subtle difficulties as well.
But the symphony is an incredible piece! Maybe you like other works of Alkan as well? I learned En Rythme Molossique, No. 2 from the Op. 39 set this past summer, and had a blast with it. It also has its fair share of difficulties, mainly keeping it interesting since it's a rather long-winded piece. But being an obsessive rhythm geek, it's most definitely my kind of piece!
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Joined: Nov 2009
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What's wrong with Lewenthal's performance?
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Joined: Nov 2006
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What's wrong with Lewenthal's performance? Assuming you are replying to OSK, I don't think he implied that anything is wrong with it. Awesome that you heard the original LP (slightly pre-dates me)- had you heard any Alkan before? One of my piano teachers told me about encountering it for the first time, and I briefly met a student of Lewenthal- the superlatives filled the air! I once read (how reliable, I do not know) that Lewenthal recorded much of Alkan for RCA, but they languish in some vault in New Jersey. Very tantalizing, I'd give anything to hear his complete Op 39.
Jason
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I'd imagine that part of wr's problem of finding an "ideal" recording of Alkan's symphony is that there aren't nearly as many recordings of it as there are, say the Chopin piano sonatas. I agree with both his and Ken's posts (they are both very intimate with Alkan's music).
Although, I'd say there are no passages in it remotely as difficult as some parts of Liszt's Mazeppa (if you use the real fingering and don't cheat) or Feux Follets. And I'm not sure how to compare it against Brahms' Paganini Variations, either. But yeah, the first movement of the symphony a beast.
The mess of chords (I mean that in the best way possible!) in the coda is very difficult, at least for me. The development has some frustrating leaps and figures as well. To overcome all of these physical difficulties and still balance the many voices and orchestral textures of the work is incredibly challenging. And I'm only pointing out some of the obvious, "virtuoso" difficulties. As Ken said, there are many other subtle difficulties as well.
But the symphony is an incredible piece! Maybe you like other works of Alkan as well? I learned En Rythme Molossique, No. 2 from the Op. 39 set this past summer, and had a blast with it. It also has its fair share of difficulties, mainly keeping it interesting since it's a rather long-winded piece. But being an obsessive rhythm geek, it's most definitely my kind of piece! I messed up - I somehow got the idea this was about the concerto, not the symphony! Sorry - back to the drawing board.
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