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#2602231 01/08/17 05:42 PM
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Arghhh Offline OP
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I have a high school student who was supposed to be doing her Gr. 6 RCM exam this year. At the advice from another teacher, I set some deadlines that had to be met in order for me to give the ok to register for the exam. The next deadline is in three weeks. I don't know how she can get it done. I've already replanned too many times. She hasn't had one week of consistent practice since we started. I've tried being sympathetic and helping. We've discussed setting up a regular practice time. I've tried being demanding, which resulted in her almost skipping her next lesson. Last week I told her she had to send me a recording showing improvement on two things on her assignment, and that never happened.

I spoke with the mom, and mom said they had said their kids could quit piano after completing Gr. 6 piano. Since the other siblings are younger, she said she didn't really want the oldest to drop out early and set a precedent for the other two kids.

Mom also says her daughter always has an excuse for why she can't practice, but the mom doesn't force it then either.

I had a similar issue with a student last year, and I never did find a way to get her to practice, except for the two days before the recital.


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Tell Mom the daughter can complete the grade with another teacher but that you are through.

Contact AZN for instructions on how to fire a student. wink

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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Contact AZN for instructions on how to fire a student. wink


ha


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I'm wondering:
a) Does the girl want to be there and study piano?
b) Does the girl want to do exams?
Especially if she is at or nearing the teen years, she should be able to make some decisions rather than practising passive-resistance. I also don't like that what she is being made responsible for what her siblings do - i.e. the parenting does not impress me.

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Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering:
a) Does the girl want to be there and study piano?
b) Does the girl want to do exams?
Especially if she is at or nearing the teen years, she should be able to make some decisions rather than practising passive-resistance. I also don't like that what she is being made responsible for what her siblings do - i.e. the parenting does not impress me.


a) She tells me she wants to learn piano.
b) She tells me she wants to do the exam. Mom says she hears a different story (i.e. student is just trying to please me).

I'm still trying to get a handle on this whole teacher-parent-student dynamic. I think the level 6 was an objective the parents had set together at the beginning of piano lessons. This isn't that unusual, and in my mind it can be a useful objective.


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If she says she wants to do both, then that scenario is out of the way (assuming she is being honest, which as you say she might not be). I mean, if this student didn't want to be there or do exams, the answer would be quite straightforward.

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Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering:
a) Does the girl want to be there and study piano?
b) Does the girl want to do exams?
Especially if she is at or nearing the teen years, she should be able to make some decisions rather than practising passive-resistance. I also don't like that what she is being made responsible for what her siblings do - i.e. the parenting does not impress me.


Absolutely right on. Parents like this enrage me. Because not only has she forced her child into something the child doesn't want to do or needs to do ... but she's almost guaranteed that this girl will grow up with no interest or appreciation for good music. I see it as a tragedy and one far too common.

Music is a joy and a privilege. Not another onerous duty.

I wouldn't waste one more minute on the student. And unless I lived in a commune or very close neighborhood of magpies and gossips ... I would tell the mother exactly what why. mad

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Originally Posted by Arghhh
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Contact AZN for instructions on how to fire a student. wink

ha

Where do I begin???

I have several students like this. If the student is fine in other ways (other than piano), then I can hold on to the student. If the student is just plain dreadful, or rude, or unpleasant in any kind of way, then I simply dismiss the student on the spot. Send the student out, even if it's right smack in the middle of a lesson, or 2 minutes into a lesson. Say, "You're done. Out."

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Whose problem is it if she's not ready for her RCM 6 exam: yours, or hers?


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First of all, there are still 3 weeks before your self-imposed deadline for progress. Maybe this girl will get motivated after more of your nagging and her mother's nagging and indeed do everything you expect suddenly in the final few days. Not impossible. (If unlikely.)

Secondly, there is no dishonor is abandoning this silly Gr. 6 exam business altogether and - as Happy Muse suggests inadvertently - start trying to bring some pleasure into the world of music learning for this teen.

It's great that she has not quit.

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Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose


Secondly, there is no dishonor is abandoning this silly Gr. 6 exam business altogether and - as Happy Muse suggests inadvertently - start trying to bring some pleasure into the world of music learning for this teen.


Actually I restrained myself a bit. I've been very vocal about my distaste for these "exams" which effectively drag music lessons into more drudgery for the child. And are absolutely meaningless. in terms of "credentials" which some posters have insisted. The only exam worth working towards is the final one. (A.R.C.T. in Canada.) And the grade 8 is required before sitting for that final exam. That's it.

Any of the lower grades is just more rigidity and unpleasantness for most students. I DO indeed used the Royal Conservatory syllbus to track appropriate levels of technical work for my students. And offer them a select few of the recommended pieces. But I refuse to subject youngsters to this rigorous process which does little to develop a love and appreciation for good music.

I would ask the parents ... what do you want in twenty years? That your child as an adult has vague memories of lessons he found tedious and boring and rarely touches the piano after the lessons were over. Or that he or she loves music, enjoys concerts and often sits down at the piano to play a few songs or carols. Or even the early classics from the music lesson years. Deal with the facts. Only a VERY few will become professional musicians. Very few will even reach Grade 8.

Of course there are teachers on Piano World who only accept advanced students. Those teaching in Conservatories or music schools will be working with students who are far beyond the elementary exam stages. And there WILL be many who go on to professional work. But for the average teacher with the average range of students, they're not going to be professionals. The love and appreciation of music is what keeps it alive. Mozart and Beethoven are still being played today amidst the cacophany of Pop favorites' twerking and screeching. Still people respond to that timeless beauty. I want to be a conduit for it as a teacher.

I won't settle for less. Pushy parents ... Here's the door. mad


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Is this going to turn into another exam-bashing thread??

There's really nothing wrong with the exams themselves, unless they are poorly written and/or unfairly administered.

The problem is people's motives for taking exams:

1) Students who want to put this on their college application, or want to take the test "because everybody else is doing it";

2) Parents who want to have tangible PROOF that their "musical investment" has paid off, or want to hurry the teachers to get through the levels so they can quit lessons sooner;

3) Teachers who want to use exam results to market themselves, such as, "Oh, look, I can teach little Johnny to skip FOUR levels in ONE year!! I'm SO GREAT!"

Other than that, there are many reasons why certain piano students _should_ take exams. Exams are definitely not for everyone, including students who are too advanced for testing (it slows down their progress) or not advanced enough for testing (it intimidates them).

Think of exams as a teaching tool. It can be useful in certain situations.


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Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Think of exams as a teaching tool. It can be useful in certain situations.


I agree with you. The situations you describe are perfectly valid ones. The main problem hardly ever lies with the student ... it is almost invariably the parents. And there are far too many unqualified teachers who use the exams as their crutch.

I admit to a very "spiritual" relationship with music. I see it as a gift and to see it made into a chore breaks my heart.

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Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Mozart and Beethoven are still being played today amidst the cacophany of Pop favorites' twerking and screeching. Still people respond to that timeless beauty. I want to be a conduit for it as a teacher.

Slightly OT. I heard an entertainment report last week that the best-selling artist as far a CD sales are concerned for 2016 was ..... (wait for it) W.A. Mozart smile

That brought a smile to my face; 225 years after his death Wolfgang is still going strong.


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Since exams have come up:

The actual true purpose of testing is a way of assessing where your students are, as an aid to teaching them. That is what I learned in teacher's college way back when. Among the various ways of staying aware, tests are the poorest. In private lessons, you are constantly observing one-on-one each time which is much better. 2) In institutions (schools) exams are used for administrative purposes in order to shunt large masses of students into pigeon holes, and try to control the doings of thousands of teachers. The populace gets used to such systems, can't imagine education without it, and thus demands it of private music teachers. They don't know any better. 3) They are used for extrinsic motivation, where a student will do the work in order to gain the rewards of high grades or avoid the shame of low grades - for some it is exciting and they love this kind of thing. For others, not. Intrinsic motivation, ofc, is where you are interested in music and want to explore and pursue it for that love. For some, maybe there is a bit of both.

The negatives of exams can be where the teacher teaches toward the exam, drilling those things that will get high grades, limiting himself to a very few pieces that get polished to death, and does not teach valid things that don't feature on exams. If for a student exams in the school system are generally anxiety-producing, then implementing exams in private lessons as well can kill motivation before it even starts. If a student is creative, interested, and curious in regards to music and the arts, and has to buckle down to the constraints of what will be examined, and what the examiners want to hear, then the potential learning that his curiosity might create gets stymied. If a student loves exams, and if a teacher teaches well and fully, and has enough character to not limit himself to external values, then having exams might be a winning combination.

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You seem to be working much harder than the student and that's such an unpleasant situation to be in.

Here's what I'd do. Cancel the exam until such time as the material is ready. There is no reason for you to subject yourself to the aggravation any longer!
(BTW I never like to sign up students for competitions or performances or anything with material that isn't ready yet. If it's almost ready but not quite, we always have a Plan B piece, and usually the Plan B piece ends up being the one that is performed.)

Talk with student and parent about how much practice time they would like to commit every day. Not how much time you think they need to get ready for some external demand like an exam, but how much time they would like to commit in order to get better at playing the piano, with the understanding that practice will be daily or near-daily. If there are some genuinely busy days in the week, fine, there might be one day off or else one or two "2-minute practice" days.

Work on material in lessons that's a combination of what you think the student needs and what the student wants to do, that's doable with that amount of practice time.
Check in with student and parent at every single lesson about whether that practice time is happening.
I find that if I do this every lesson in a polite but consistent manner, either the student shapes up, or they decide to quit of their own accord.


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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Arghhh
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Contact AZN for instructions on how to fire a student. wink

ha

Where do I begin???

I have several students like this. If the student is fine in other ways (other than piano), then I can hold on to the student. If the student is just plain dreadful, or rude, or unpleasant in any kind of way, then I simply dismiss the student on the spot. Send the student out, even if it's right smack in the middle of a lesson, or 2 minutes into a lesson. Say, "You're done. Out."

cool

You talk about doing it, so you probably have. I've done it myself. Enough is enough...

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Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering:
a) Does the girl want to be there and study piano?
b) Does the girl want to do exams?
Especially if she is at or nearing the teen years, she should be able to make some decisions rather than practising passive-resistance. I also don't like that what she is being made responsible for what her siblings do - i.e. the parenting does not impress me.


Absolutely right on. Parents like this enrage me. Because not only has she forced her child into something the child doesn't want to do or needs to do ... but she's almost guaranteed that this girl will grow up with no interest or appreciation for good music. I see it as a tragedy and one far too common.

But...

Learning a musical instrument is often promoted as having educational benefits that reach farther than just the instrument itself. It's late, so my communication skills are deteriorating, but this article is just one example of many Benefits of Piano Study
Of course, if a student isn't putting any effort in, then the benefits of piano lessons won't be as great as they could be. However, it does seem that music study is something a parent interested in giving their kids the best education would go for.


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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
Whose problem is it if she's not ready for her RCM 6 exam: yours, or hers?


Good point.

Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
First of all, there are still 3 weeks before your self-imposed deadline for progress. Maybe this girl will get motivated after more of your nagging and her mother's nagging and indeed do everything you expect suddenly in the final few days. Not impossible. (If unlikely.)

Secondly, there is no dishonor is abandoning this silly Gr. 6 exam business altogether and - as Happy Muse suggests inadvertently - start trying to bring some pleasure into the world of music learning for this teen.

It's great that she has not quit.


Partially in response to hreichgott's answer also: Last year we abandoned the Gr. 6 idea so that she could actually learn to read the music she was playing (she transferred to me last year). We made some progress, but I got lots of excuses as to why she didn't do the work she got to help her read better. I'm tempted to tell her tomorrow I don't know what to plan anymore, so it is up to her to figure out how to get it done.


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Originally Posted by Arghhh
Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering:
a) Does the girl want to be there and study piano?
b) Does the girl want to do exams?
Especially if she is at or nearing the teen years, she should be able to make some decisions rather than practising passive-resistance. I also don't like that what she is being made responsible for what her siblings do - i.e. the parenting does not impress me.


Absolutely right on. Parents like this enrage me. Because not only has she forced her child into something the child doesn't want to do or needs to do ... but she's almost guaranteed that this girl will grow up with no interest or appreciation for good music. I see it as a tragedy and one far too common.

But...

Learning a musical instrument is often promoted as having educational benefits that reach farther than just the instrument itself. It's late, so my communication skills are deteriorating, but this article is just one example of many Benefits of Piano Study
Of course, if a student isn't putting any effort in, then the benefits of piano lessons won't be as great as they could be. However, it does seem that music study is something a parent interested in giving their kids the best education would go for.


From personal, family experience: IMHO the family is not trying to give their daughter the 'best education', but to fulfill a longing of a parent, or an image of what the child should be. Honestly, if they want to give the child the best musical education and the child is obviously not interested in the piano, there are several alternatives including a different instrument, or a music appreciation class.

It sickens me that parents try to mold their children into little images of what they expect a child to be, rather than what the child can become in areas that are interesting TO THE CHILD.

Do the student a favor, and drop her so she is free to pursue something of real interest to her. She will grow up to LOATHE the piano... I have a sister who was exactly in this student's situation. She is now nearing retirement age and still HATES the memories of the lessons, and hates the piano. As an adult, I now wonder why my teacher allowed this to continue for so long. Create a love of music? It did just the opposite.

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