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#2603592 - 01/12/17 10:32 AM Kawai MP12
Sedat Karahan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 2

Hello,

Could anyone tell me when the Kawai MP12 is likely to be released?

Thank you!

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#2603604 - 01/12/17 11:22 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
CyberGene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Nobody can tell that. But I guess there's high probability that MP12 will be released this year since MP11 is the only "high-end" piano in the Kawai line that has not been updated to their latest keyboard (GF2) and their newly added pianos (SK-EX, SK-5, uprights). If I am in the market for MP11, I would most definitely wait a little to see whether there's MP12 released. And I might be wrong of course smile
_________________________
https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2603609 - 01/12/17 11:40 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 14915
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Wow, has it been 3 years since MP11 was released? Time flies!

I don't think I'll be upgrading as I'm happy with what the MP11 offers, but if something were to happen to this one, the MP12 would sure be a contender.

Guess we'll see what happens next week at NAMM smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2603612 - 01/12/17 11:45 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Gombessa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/16
Posts: 433
I specifically made my MP11 purchase decision based on the assumption that an MP12 could drop within a year, and made sure I could live with that given the discount I paid smile

Despite that, I've still got my eyes peeled for whatever may get dropped at NAMM!
_________________________
Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11

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#2603627 - 01/12/17 12:22 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
propianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 252
Loc: England
Originally Posted By Sedat Karahan

Hello,

Could anyone tell me when the Kawai MP12 is likely to be released?

Thank you!


Yeah, they'll release MP12 about 4 years before the MP13 is due. Does that answer your question?

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#2603639 - 01/12/17 12:41 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Alexander Borro Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 883
Loc: UK
Bring on the MP12 grin then hopefully there will be reasonably priced bargains to be had in future on the older MP11 and some second hand ones too. I never tried one, but provided I could try it, seeing I liked the GF2 key bed, I would consider something like that as an upgrade in future from my reasonably priced Casio key bed. smile

I am in no rush however to upgrade any time soon, but sometimes we see a good bargain, then, I might be game and take advantage of such an opportunity if one appeared. For example, I was thinking about buying an older hardly used CA65 once for a very reasonable price last year (pretty much half the new price ), but it was a long distance away for me to make the trip, so I didn't and never got to it, but such bargains do appear every once in a while.
_________________________
Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Casio AP450 & software.

My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro

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#2603724 - 01/12/17 03:41 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
PianoManChuck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 225
Loc: Los Angeles, California
There will only be 3 new Kawai models released at NAMM next week:

ES110, CN27, CN37

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#2603734 - 01/12/17 04:21 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
propianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 252
Loc: England
How do you know this when the rest of the world doesn't?

Do you work for Kawai or get given N.D.A. info ahead of public releases?

I've noticed Kawai skip NAMM some years and announce stuff at Frankfurt Musikmesse in April instead.

You may well be correct of course.

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#2603782 - 01/12/17 06:45 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Gombessa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/16
Posts: 433
Nobody knows for sure, but if I was a betting man I wouldn't bet against Chuck. Dude's got connections. In any case, we'll see next week smile
_________________________
Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11

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#2603825 - 01/12/17 09:15 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Ottawa58 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 59
I wouldn't bet against piano man Chuck. But if he's wrong I think that he should have to play chopsticks on his next video.

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#2603866 - 01/12/17 11:49 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: propianist]
Rhodie73 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 184
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By propianist
How do you know this when the rest of the world doesn't?

Do you work for Kawai or get given N.D.A. info ahead of public releases?

I've noticed Kawai skip NAMM some years and announce stuff at Frankfurt Musikmesse in April instead.

You may well be correct of course.



I'm not trying to be rude here, but James already announced the info about the ES110, CN27 and CN37 in separate threads on this forum. There's no mystery that they will probably show them them off next week at NAMM.

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#2603870 - 01/13/17 12:01 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: propianist]
PianoManChuck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 225
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By propianist
How do you know this when the rest of the world doesn't?

Do you work for Kawai or get given N.D.A. info ahead of public releases?

I've noticed Kawai skip NAMM some years and announce stuff at Frankfurt Musikmesse in April instead.

You may well be correct of course.


I find out when everyone else finds out. But Kawai James posted it the other day, AND its on the Kawai website.

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#2603873 - 01/13/17 12:09 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
PianoManChuck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 225
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Actually, Sean O'shea of Kawai just released a demo video of the ES110:

https://youtu.be/I6k7yK3cqIE

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#2603875 - 01/13/17 12:14 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: PianoManChuck]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12696
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By PianoManChuck
There will only be 3 new Kawai models released at NAMM next week:

ES110, CN27, CN37


Correct. wink

Three new DPs and one special edition GP to commemorate Kawai's 90th anniversary.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2603929 - 01/13/17 05:32 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
propianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 252
Loc: England
Re: PianoManChuck,
As I say, you may well be correct of course, but...

Yes, they've recently announced 3 new models and they've appeared on the website.
That's good, and you'd probably expect to see these on Kawai's stand at NAMM.

But, as far as we knew, they might have still had some more new products to come, up their sleeve.

No way of knowing that for sure! Until NAMM show begins and finishes, only then we can say "that was all there was", or unless there's already an official disclaimer on Kawai's website "These are the ONLY new products we'll be releasing to coincide with the NAMM show."

I haven't seen any specific disclaimer like that on their website, and I don't think Kawai James had likewise ruled anything out, until his post this morning following your reply to my question.
I guess now we finally do know.

Big companies often stagger releases throughout the lead-up period to a big show like NAMM. Some companies like to tease with one launch per week or something.
eg. During Summer 2016, Samyang (lens manufacturer) were launching one new lens every week for five weeks leading up to the Photokina show. It heightens expectations and creates more interest, rather than dropping all five in one press release which is soon forgotten.

Kawai themselves released the VPC1 with a similar delayed tease campaign by gradually revealing the velocity curve presets - Ivory II, Vintage D, Pianoteq and finally... (people were dying to know and betting on the outcome here on pianoworld forum!)... Alicia's Keys. Before that you had people guessing what the brand new unknown VPC1 was and could offer, even host VST's onboard like a Muse Receptor, thinking it was a dream virtual piano solution and the actual final reveal was rather an anti-climax after they'd built their hopes up.

Anyway, we've all seen teasers and stuff like that before.
It's not uncommon for companies to deliberately delay things a bit. Sometimes they even disable or enable features in firmware to make a new product better suit a certain price point in light of competitor's new product's strengths and weaknesses. Kawai are probably keeping a close eye on Yamaha and Roland's offerings at NAMM.



Edited by propianist (01/13/17 05:52 AM)

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#2603946 - 01/13/17 07:05 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Doug M. Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 290
Loc: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By Sedat Karahan

Hello,

Could anyone tell me when the Kawai MP12 is likely to be released?

Thank you!


This maybe an unpopular view, but perhaps now is not the right time for the MP12 to be released. The MP11 has piano samples many seem to have a love-hate relationship with; therefore, it seems to me that Kawai would benefit from a) getting the sampling technology up to another level, or b) developing a modelled piano engine, or c) incorporate a SSD so that a VSTi can be loaded into the board (removing the need for a laptop).

The GF2 action is not sufficiently better than the GF1 action (IMO) to warrant building a new MP12 around. When Roland update a board like the RD700, minor updates get a code like SX, GX, NX etc. Kawai could do this and have an MP11 2.0 and update to GF2; however, this would seem a big expense, especially if sound technology updates are not ready.

IMO it would be better for Kawai to get the MP12 'right' rather than rush out an update. Maybe it could get the GF3 action and something worth redesigning the board for, like a new processor and sound-sampling/modelling technology.

Wouldn't expect it out till 2018 (4 years since MP11 general release).
_________________________
Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand

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#2603972 - 01/13/17 08:26 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
lophiomys Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 610
Loc: Austria, EU
A MP12 with
- good physical modelling (or VSTi / Pianoteq integragion),
- a well regulated and meticulously maufactutred GF3 key action, and
- top quality audiophile electronics
could tempt me, to spend some money again for a digital piano, even it is only in 2018.

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#2603973 - 01/13/17 08:35 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
CyberGene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Wild dream: Kawai to collaborate with Garritan for them to record a SK-EX in Abbey Road studios (where they sampled the CFX) in its full 120 GB beauty and then provide the whole unlooped version in the hardware smile An even better will be to just provide the already great CFX laugh But Kawai won't put a competitor's samples in their own. Which is a pity since there's no better acoustic piano in the whole world right now than CFX (IMHO) wink Maybe they can put the CFX samples but say it's the SK-EX laugh
_________________________
https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2603981 - 01/13/17 08:58 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: CyberGene]
Doug M. Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 290
Loc: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By CyberGene
Wild dream: Kawai to collaborate with Garritan for them to record a SK-EX in Abbey Road studios (where they sampled the CFX) in its full 120 GB beauty and then provide the whole unlooped version in the hardware smile An even better will be to just provide the already great CFX laugh But Kawai won't put a competitor's samples in their own. Which is a pity since there's no better acoustic piano in the whole world right now than CFX (IMHO) wink Maybe they can put the CFX samples but say it's the SK-EX laugh


Yes, or they could also improve the sampling technology behind top-notch Kawai Grand pianos to the Garritan level or above. IMO, exact copying (following trends) just reduces variety, which is never good for the consumer. For instance, that I might be a fan of Garritan CFX doesn't mean that the next person will be also.

I like the idea of piano companies realising that many of us are hooking our stage pianos and workstations up to a laptop---i.e., for use powering VSTi's and for music production---and thus building a PC inside the board with a larger screen as part of the GUI. This would combine the on-board processor/system with a PC system, so we wouldn't have to plug a laptop in and buy all the sound-cards and hardware gubbins required to facilitate VSTi integration and music production. However, this suggestion isn't aimed particularly at Kawai.
_________________________
Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand

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#2603984 - 01/13/17 09:01 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
orangeaide Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/17
Posts: 18
You do realise if Kawai release a new MP digital then they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

It would be like admitting we did not get it right the first time around so we're sorry to all you
who have purchased previous versions.

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#2603985 - 01/13/17 09:05 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Doug M.]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 14915
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Doug M.
Originally Posted By Sedat Karahan

Hello,

Could anyone tell me when the Kawai MP12 is likely to be released?

Thank you!


This maybe an unpopular view, but perhaps now is not the right time for the MP12 to be released. The MP11 has piano samples many seem to have a love-hate relationship with; therefore, it seems to me that Kawai would benefit from a) getting the sampling technology up to another level, or b) developing a modelled piano engine, or c) incorporate a SSD so that a VSTi can be loaded into the board (removing the need for a laptop).

The GF2 action is not sufficiently better than the GF1 action (IMO) to warrant building a new MP12 around. When Roland update a board like the RD700, minor updates get a code like SX, GX, NX etc. Kawai could do this and have an MP11 2.0 and update to GF2; however, this would seem a big expense, especially if sound technology updates are not ready.

IMO it would be better for Kawai to get the MP12 'right' rather than rush out an update. Maybe it could get the GF3 action and something worth redesigning the board for, like a new processor and sound-sampling/modelling technology.

Wouldn't expect it out till 2018 (4 years since MP11 general release).


Kawai does have new sounds that were put into the CA67/97 series that are not in the current MP11, so upgrading the action to GF2 and adding the new sampled piano sounds would warrant a new release, IMO. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2604002 - 01/13/17 09:58 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Morodiene]
Doug M. Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 290
Loc: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By Morodiene
Originally Posted By Doug M.
Originally Posted By Sedat Karahan

Hello,

Could anyone tell me when the Kawai MP12 is likely to be released?

Thank you!


This maybe an unpopular view, but perhaps now is not the right time for the MP12 to be released. The MP11 has piano samples many seem to have a love-hate relationship with; therefore, it seems to me that Kawai would benefit from a) getting the sampling technology up to another level, or b) developing a modelled piano engine, or c) incorporate a SSD so that a VSTi can be loaded into the board (removing the need for a laptop).

The GF2 action is not sufficiently better than the GF1 action (IMO) to warrant building a new MP12 around. When Roland update a board like the RD700, minor updates get a code like SX, GX, NX etc. Kawai could do this and have an MP11 2.0 and update to GF2; however, this would seem a big expense, especially if sound technology updates are not ready.

IMO it would be better for Kawai to get the MP12 'right' rather than rush out an update. Maybe it could get the GF3 action and something worth redesigning the board for, like a new processor and sound-sampling/modelling technology.

Wouldn't expect it out till 2018 (4 years since MP11 general release).


Kawai does have new sounds that were put into the CA67/97 series that are not in the current MP11, so upgrading the action to GF2 and adding the new sampled piano sounds would warrant a new release, IMO. smile


Take your point (SK pianos etc), just not sure those new sounds are a big leap in quality or that the sound chips are that much better. Maybe it would make commercial sense to make a revision (MP11-SK) should the present housing be adapted to suit the GF2.
_________________________
Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand

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#2604003 - 01/13/17 09:59 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: orangeaide]
Doug M. Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 290
Loc: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By orangeaide
You do realise if Kawai release a new MP digital then they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

It would be like admitting we did not get it right the first time around so we're sorry to all you
who have purchased previous versions.


I think 4 years between iterations is about right.
_________________________
Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand

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#2604098 - 01/13/17 01:39 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
lophiomys Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 610
Loc: Austria, EU
IMO the MP12 would need a big step of improvement in sound generation quality.
Just adding another outdated ROMpler sound in HI-XL format is not enough. For me that would need physical modelling at the level of Pianoteq at the least.

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#2604131 - 01/13/17 03:02 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: lophiomys]
Gombessa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/16
Posts: 433
Originally Posted By orangeaide
You do realise if Kawai release a new MP digital then they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

It would be like admitting we did not get it right the first time around so we're sorry to all you who have purchased previous versions.


I find this as a bit of an odd position. Kawai did release an MP8ii to replace the MP8. And Apple releases a major new iPhone every single year. Do you mean that Kawai is mid-cycle on this DP and releasing a revision now would seem a bit rushed?

Originally Posted By lophiomys
IMO the MP12 would need a big step of improvement in sound generation quality.
Just adding another outdated ROMpler sound in HI-XL format is not enough. For me that would need physical modelling at the level of Pianoteq at the least.


I think it's an interesting philosophical question whether Kawai or Yamaha will ever move to a fully modeled system. It's probably a very hard pill for them to swallow to say that they can better recreate their own flagship pianos with software simulation rather than carefully recording the instruments themselves!

And also, I think there's a difference between "worth upgrading from an MP11" and "worth buying for a new purchaser." New samples and GF2 keybed probably wouldn't be enough for existing MP11 owners to upgrade, but it could bring in new buyers who are concerned about the lack of feature parity with Kawai's other DPs. Maybe that's where another "MkII" moniker might be useful.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11

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#2613799 - 02/12/17 02:31 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Paul Mann Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/25/14
Posts: 11
The newer sound chip (newer than the one in the MP7 and MP11) is already in the ES8, CN27, CN37.
The newer sound chip is much better than the older one, fuller sound, SK-grand is better than the
CFX-grand, IMO.

I had an ES8 at my house and played it for 2 days ... much better sound chip.
RH3 action in the ES8 is better than the RH2 action, better for pianists, but maybe not for
organ players.

So ... I'm not buying the MP7 or MP11, definitely not. I'm waiting.

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#2616169 - 02/19/17 08:00 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Paul Mann]
Savante Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/14
Posts: 111
Loc: deep in the woods
Originally Posted By Paul Mann
The newer sound chip (newer than the one in the MP7 and MP11) is already in the ES8, CN27, CN37.
The newer sound chip is much better than the older one, fuller sound, SK-grand is better than the
CFX-grand, IMO.

I had an ES8 at my house and played it for 2 days ... much better sound chip.
RH3 action in the ES8 is better than the RH2 action, better for pianists, but maybe not for
organ players.

So ... I'm not buying the MP7 or MP11, definitely not. I'm waiting.


I visited this forum today with this same question in mind -- when will we see the MP12, and the update of the MP7? I had an MP11, but lost it (along with everything else I ever owned, including a $150K music studio, when my house burned to the ground in a catastrophic wildfire in September, 2015). I loved the MP11, but the new sounds in the ES8 (and perhaps also in the CA67, and CA97?) sound a LOT better to me. And even if the GF2 is just an incremental improvement over the GF, better is better. I won't replace my MP11, but rather wait for the MP12.

The ES8 has the RH3 and the improved sound set. But I want all the editing and controller features of the MP series, which the ES8 doesn't have. But for the right person, the ES8 is an incredible instrument.

Of course Kawai could, and probably will, add a few more things to the new series, but just the new actions (RH3 and GF2) and the new sound sets (SK-EX, SK-5, uprights) that are already available on other models would be sufficient justification for a new MP release soon.

It was approximately 3 1/2 years from the MP8II to the MP10, and another 3 1/2 years from the MP10 to the MP11. It's now three years since the MP11, and therefore, if the pattern continues, we're getting close to the MP12.

However, the time intervals between the MP9000, MP9500, and MP8 were shorter -- 2 or 2 1/2 years or so -- so the intervals between new models has slowly been getting longer. Thus, if this is the trend, we might not see the MP12 (and MP7+?, or whatever it will be named) until early 2018, which would be four years since the current models.

But Kawai must also be mindful of the competition. Roland is a big competitor in the stage piano market. Roland has released two new generation stage pianos -- the RD-800 and the new RD-2000 since the MP7 and MP11 were released. Though still fine pianos, the MP7 and MP11 are NOT Kawai's current technology, and they are falling behind Roland in getting new, upgraded generation stage pianos out the door.

Personally, I'm very eager to get a new stage piano, having missed having one for the last year and a half. But I will wait for Kawai to implement its already existing improved technology before I buy. I hope it will be soon!


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#2616183 - 02/19/17 09:01 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Gombessa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/16
Posts: 433
Wow, really sorry to hear about the fire! Hope you were able to get everything back up.

I thought this was a really well-reasoned post, and it's insightful to see the timeframes and the fact that Roland has released two flagship stage pianos since the MP11 was released.

As an MP11 owner, if I suddenly lost mine now, I'd probably hold off getting another one as well unless I was able to get a very substantial discount. I typically try not to get into the "what's around the corner" mindset, but just like buying an iPhone in early September, we're likely really close to the release cycle and presumably you can get a lot more for the same money by waiting a little.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11

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#2616188 - 02/19/17 09:22 PM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Gombessa]
Savante Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/14
Posts: 111
Loc: deep in the woods
Originally Posted By Gombessa
Wow, really sorry to hear about the fire! Hope you were able to get everything back up.


Thank you for the kind sentiments.

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#2616232 - Yesterday at 02:08 AM Re: Kawai MP12 [Re: Sedat Karahan]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12696
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Savante, good to see you back!

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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