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No worries James, hopefully it's just a one off as I have no idea what people do to the store ones which is why I want to try another store

I saw in the other thread that you already ordered the CS11 (congrats on that) but as further reassurance (and for other people reading this in the future), I can confirm that on my CA97, even after one year the lateral movability of the keys is very very small. I feel no lateral movement at all while playing. I can move a key sideways minimally if I grab it at the end and use a bit of force. But even then I cannot make two keys touch. It seems that the CS11 at that shop was in really bad shape. Let's hope that yours, once delivered, is better.

I checked out CS10, CA67, CA97, and a CP series piano in the store. The alignment/spacing and lateral movement was as it should be on all of them. I also noted that one of the N1 pianos had the "front tooth" spacing between a few of its keys.

These are wooden keys bushes with soft felt - there has to be some motion and wiggle room, but they all felt as solid and playable as $20,000 grand pianos on the floor.

I know it's been said already, but when an acoustic piano is purchased, it is expected that a tech makes adjustments after final delivery and initial impressions are reserved for afterward. In the GF action, we ask for the same feel and materials but seem to expect perfection out of the box, and some won't even accept a free technition visit if there ends up being an issue.

Felt is soft and natural materials (like wood) swell and shrink with humidity. These pianos are shipped across an ocean and it seems plausible that the humidity could cause things to swell a bit. When this happens there's no guarantee they shrink to the original position (primarily the felt, which was placed and compressed by human hands). This would lead to imperfect spacing and key bushing. All easily adjustable by a tech.

Failing glue is a little different, but still can be repaired. I feel like people are less bothered by an oddity in an expensive acoustic since they expect a regulation or adjustment before considering the piano playable.

It's not easy designing something that looks and feels like an intricate mechanism comprised of natural materials, but that requires little maintenance or adjustment, especially after transport and storage.

I disassembled my ca67 whit calm to perform the height alignment of the keys using a paper disks with various thickness, was a fairly long process, but now it's much better.

Having basically ordered the Kawai CA97 and then reading this thread had me really worried.

At first I thought that this forum represents only a small minority and all threads touching upon specific problems are bound to collect those that actually have problems.

But the fact that many users with key clickings had thier entire keyboard or unit replaced and experienced the same problem over again indicates that it's a persistant problem. In fact, I have never heard of anyone on this forum that had it's keyboard/unit replaced and NOT having the very same issues all over again. That actually changes a lot. It's no longer an issue that might only occur to ~1% or lower that we hear about, it's a problem that seems to occur more often and not to those who actually gets annoyed by it.

In fact, I have never even heard of anyone with the clicking problems that had it successfully fixed at all, if it didn't invole self-fixes. If anyone actually had a technichan successfully fix this problem permanently, please tell us about it.

I'm actually worried that maybe I should have picked the more solid deal with Yamaha CLP-575 for this issue alone. I hope that my 5 year warranty and excellent store service will turn stand tall if needed.

I have a CA65.
I had uneven keys. (the tops did not line up.)
the seller came here and made them even.
it was a few years ago now.
I have never noticed a problem with clicking.
my opinion (MY opinion):
you have made an extremely good choice.
extra extremely good.
I used to worry about every little detail.
then I read something that I thought was super wise.
a guy at the Keyboard Corner forum, who is a phenomenal player......has been playing on big name records for decades commented on a VST that I was thinking of getting (The Hammersmith). I had decided not to get it, because of negative stuff I had read about it.
Steve (the guy), said that he thought it was good (paraphrasing here). there is something wrong with even acoustic pianos that he plays and records on in studios.
then, I got it.
you just make the best of it. whatever it is.
turns out, for me, my CA65, and playing Hammersmith (I took a chance, bought it......it is heavenly), I might like it better than anything other than a real Steinway Grand.
which I'll never own.
but I am ecstatic with what I have.
I'll bet that your CA97 is gonna be even better than my CA65.
and the second that you stop focusing on whats wrong with it, you will be noticing all the things that are right about it. all the things that are absolutely phenomenal about it.

That is so well-stated Minstrelman. Something we should all keep in mind to keep perspective. Thanks!

ah, thank you very much Gombessa!!
I was just playing my CA65.
I was playing Garritan CFX.
it is just insanely good, man.
I can hardly believe how good it is.
I think I like CFX as much as Hammersmith.
what an embarrassment of riches.
do I think my CA65 is perfect?
heck, no!!!
but, do I like some things about it?
are you kidding me?
its not perfect, ok.
but, you know what, man, it is absolutely sublime.
I am in ecstasy playing my CA65.
absolutely by far, one of the best things I have ever gotten.
and definitely one of my favorite things in the world.
now, I've never played a CA97.
but going off my very much familiarity with my cherished CA65, to the person, who bought the CA97, I say good move. I think you chose VERY well.

Danilo, just wondering, did you get paper disks for the front rail or balance rail, and what thicknesses did you use?

Balance rail, I believe, that's how you level keys. If the keys are also slanted, then you have to bend the balance pins. If the spacing is also irregular, to correct it you have to bend the front pins.

When leveling keys, one should also check the keydip. Adding or removing punchings on the balance rail will also change the height the keys rest at and that will affect the keydip.
EDIT: the keydip is also affected by the front strips... bushings on normal actions. The compression of the felt will change the keydip (and aftertouch too!). To solve the problem you either have to replace the strips or add spacers. I think the first option is the better one.

By the way, Kawai didn't use punchings on the front rail, there are two long felt strips (one for sharps and one for white keys).

Thanks f3r, that all makes sense, and from the picture it's pretty clear how the keys sit against the balance rail!

Do see some felt bushings in that front stabilising pin though - any irregularity in those could also cause some inclination changes right?

Is Kawai aware of these "problems"?

And will Kawai send out a technician to fix these "problems" for you?

They get thinner/compressed over time and the keys will wiggle more, this is also valid for the bushings at the balance pins.

I'm sure they are, considering that this action is similar (bushings, pins, punchings, back rail felt, adjustable capstan) to an acoustic action and subjected to the same problems (uneven height and keydip, irregular spacing, wiggling keys...).

Under warranty?
If you contact the seller or Kawai directly, they will send you a technician to fix all the problems your unit has. If you're not satisfied they can also replace it with a new unit.

Anyone has tried this repairs on a mp11?
I send my back a year ago, but they didn't acknowledge the faults, mine is the front rail, some keys do that clicking noise, one in particular is annoying.

Would like detailed instructions to maybe have a go at it.

Make a well recorded video of the faults on your MP11 and post it on YouTube and a link here too.

This thread indeed looks very scary for a potential Kawai owners like myself. I spoke with several sales from Kawai dealer's authorized shops and one of them told me 'yes, Kawai is known for those keybed issues so I would recommend to buy Yamaha instead - they are much more reliable, you will get keybed in excellent condition even after 5 years'.

Questions to James Kawai:

1) Assume I purchase a brand new CA67 and find out that one of those issues is there. Can I return the instrument to the shop and ask for repairs? Will they (a) accept the claim and (b) be able to fix the issue(s)?

2) Would that be applicable in Russia?

3) Sales say there is only one year of the warranty in Russia. Could you tell why is that?

Thank you!

Hello vince961,

To address your queries:



If you have any concerns with the instrument you receive, my recommendation would be to contact the dealer for assistance. Depending on the market location, they may send a technician to your home in order to investigate and resolve the issue.



In the event that any issues arise with a Kawai instrument purchased in Russia, I'm confident that Kawai's Russian dealers (supported by Kawai Russia) will take the necessary steps to ensure that they are resolved. However, I'm afraid I do not know if this would include having a technician visit your home to investigate and resolve the issue - this may well depend in your location.



May I recommend that you raise any warranty queries with my colleagues at Kawai Russia, via the website below:

http://kawai.ru/

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi,

I've received a brand new CA-97 about a week ago and unfortunately I must say I've had some of the issues described in this thread straight out of the box:

- An F# that does a woody scratching sound each time its pressed. As described before in the thread, it seems like a splinter from the key that is rubbing on the adjacent D. I've been able to reduce the noise by gently rubbing a folded post-it between the keys. Not solved but now its manageable.

- F3/G3 and F5/G5 make a distinct plastic clicking sound when pressing the keys (all others being quite silent). G3 is particularly nasty and distracting since it can be perfectly heard while playing. It did also become louder with use over the course of the week.

I could probably try to fix it myself as I'm quite handy, but am not going to risk the warranty over this. Guess I'll wait a couple more weeks to see if any other issue shows up before calling Kawai Portugal to have this looked at. I'm assuming the market for this pianos (CA-67/97) is quite small over here so I doubt there will be qualified technicians to come and solve this. I'd hate to have someone messing with the key action without knowing what they're doing, but we'll see.

Apart from the issues above, I'm very happy with the product, but have to say it is very annoying to receive a brand new product that comes in less than pristine condition. Also, from all the comments above, I'm still in awe how these issues are popping up so frequently in a product at this price range.... :|

Best,

TR