Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum New AB: my story... need advices from experts!

Hello everyone,
this is my first post on this forum.
I'm 30 yo from Italy (sorry for my english) and I started "practically" playing the piano some months ago, but I have a very frustrating problem:

I always loved music since a I was a kid but unfortunately never got to take lessons.
Anyway I always "played" with music... like midis: I spent much time analyzing midis of my favourite songs/pieces dreaming of playing them, until one day I decide to start by myself.
I played electric guitar for the past 6-7 years (selfthught), and despite the fact it is a completely different instrument I learned a lot about music theory during these years.

I've arrived at one point in my life, maybe 3 years ago, in which I seriously wanted to concentrate only on my favourite instrument: piano (which until that moment I avoided because it was frightening for me).

So 3 years ago I started studing like heck on books about music theory, music history, reading treatise about piano playing (like Czerny op.500, my favourite), classical composition, started to collect, read and analyze tons of classical sheet music... it became and obsession.
But always hesitate making practical practice because I didn't feel ready.

In these years I reached a very good theorical understanding of the instrument and of music reading/analyzing etc., but anyhow I never got to put my ass on that chair to play the instrument because the much discrepancy of my Theorical level and my Practical level: I wanted to play Chopin Etudes, Lizt, Beethoven ecc, and not "wasting time" on simpler pieces, so I constantly run into a wall. Very frustrating.

So, some months ago I decided I had to do something to unblock myself, and started taking lessons with a teacher.
I'm currently doing that, I like it also because I don't know anyone who plays or like piano, so that is a way to speak with someone who understand it... but I feel frustrated anyway, because at lessons I'm learning relatively basic pieces which I could have learnt at home by myself, and the teachings I receive are already in me, I already know and understand well.

So my problem is: I understand pretty well music theory and analisys, I can read sheet music easily, even the most advanced pieces, but I lack the Practical part of the process.
In these years I concentrated to much on theory, at the level I practically play like a beginner, but in my mind I can understand and read the advanced pieces I really would love to play.
I don't know how to preceed, if taking lessons is a waste of time for me, or it is a path I MUST do to reach the practical level I desire...

I'd like to know form experts what they think about this situation, if I should quit the lessons to concentrate by myself, or just keep learning easy-intermediate pieces which I like but don't care much about.
For any other question I'll be happy to answer,

Thank you for reading

Sorry AR,......you have to practise the easy music and work to more advanced music.
You have to work on your technique.......
Music is nice...but also working hard.......
Even the greatest pianists played the easy compositions first......calm, patience and discipline......

Kind regards,
Johan B

Is this question for real? So you are asking if there is a magical shortcut to piano mastery? If anyone knows of one I would love to hear about it.

Regardless of what know, mentally, you need to develop the physical skill to actually push down the keys properly in order to play high level music.

The test will be in how well you can actually play those simple pieces.

Your instructor will move you along faster if you show her you can do it.

Good Luck

I don't mean that, I don't want a shortcut.
I know it will take many years to be able to play what I would like to play (if ever I will be able...).

I just don't know if it is productive or a waste of time taking lessons learning nothing new in relation to what I know, just to get the "review" of the pieces I learn week to week

That's about ten years away from where you are now - and that's assuming you have some innate talent. You'll only find out by working hard on your technique and musicianship with your teacher, and keep on improving year by year.



You can stay being a 'musical theorist' but a beginner pianist forever - or you can keep working hard on your piano playing for the next several years to become the pianist you want to be.

If it's the latter, stay with your teacher and keep practicing and learning from him/her. You definitely won't ever reach the level of playing Chopin etudes without a teacher.

BTW, it took me all of one month to teach myself guitar so that I can accompany myself singing pop songs in several keys. It took me ten years of daily practicing (and piano lessons) to be able to play Chopin's Op.10/12 on the piano (and that's far from being his most difficult etude).

The proper guidance of a good teacher is essential. You just started with this teacher so maybe give them the benefit of a doubt. The other alternative is to find a teacher that is a better fit. While its commendable that you have taken on a lot of self study you now need a teacher that can show you the mechanics of piano playing. For me, the physical aspects of (good) piano playing is very counter intuitive. Some are lucky to be born with this ability but for most it has to be learned.

IMHO, YES it is important to take lessons... you will begin to learn how to apply what you know to the repertoire you want to play:
- Interpretation
- Finger,wrist, hand technique
- Different approaches to solve problem sections
- You are carrying stress in your right shoulder (I had no idea!)

--- to name only a few. Every week I learn something about technique which could not have been learned from a book. You have a HUGE head start, which I know makes everything seem slow, but your teacher will increase the pace as she sees that you are able to apply the information. I'm sure it is frustrating for you.. but hang in there!

Have you discussed with your teacher what you have been able to learn on your own?? I think it would help both you and the teacher.

Expert? Will you take an aficionado?

I think a teacher can help you a lot.

There is a lot of theory and reading that is entirely rooted in analytical thinking.

When you play piano, you have to translate that and synthesize that into something mechanical. You cannot reason with the motor centers of your brain.

Piano music contains scale passages and arpeggiated passages that take time to teach your motor centers how to do. Maybe... speaking from personal experience... a... lot... of time?

Furthermore, making the piano make okay-ish sounds requires a pretty complicated combination of movements in your body.

Teachers have lived through that. And they, unlike most of us players in this forum (though there are fantastic teachers who contribute here too), they can teach you to approach those movements because they've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to communicate something that is hard to communicate.

How to move at the piano--I think it's hard to communicate that from a book (though many have tried) or a video (though many have tried). Someone in person can help you. And you'll have to figure out a lot on your own, too.

ARPiano, one thing is totally missing in your original post. What specific things are being pointed out by your teacher? For example, might she be telling you to play with a relaxed wrist because your wrist is stiff (if it is)? Might she be stressing that you need to count, maybe differently than you are?

I played Sonatinas "fluently" when I was a child and self-taught, and played for hours every day for years. After a 35 year absent I got a piano again. It was after studying another instrument as an adult and learning through that about fundamentals being at the root of all playing, and sought that. I actually asked to go to simple pieces. However, the emphasis has been on basic things such as the two I mentioned. My reason for the simple pieces has been that when you work on advanced material you are so busy with the complicated notes and rhythms that you can't concentrate on these other things. If you are undoing and redoing your habits of many years, this becomes even more critical. If a teacher is "only" giving simple pieces without also teaching the skills using them, well simple pieces by themselves don't teach. But if she is directly or indirectly stressing things, that's what to focus on in your own practice.

Also ask "What should I focus on?" "How should I practice?" Indeed, if you're not getting at this part, that's the essential thing you should.

unfortunately for the beginner, from time to time it will often feel like wasting money taking lessons. On one level the pieces sound easy but on the other the fingers/hands/body and mind refuse to take all but glacial steps forward. The poor teacher is helpless until you get better but is a necessary guide to keep you on the right path. It does sound more like you are frustrated by the slow progress, so like just about every beginner you really have to learn to take each day as it comes. While it is great to have lofty long term goals it is important to find happiness is what you are achieving now.



There are a great many very enjoyable pieces at lesser levels/grades than you think. It is only a matter of finding them. Keep in mind the enjoyment of a passive listener is much different to that of an active performer.

Play your simple pieces beautifully and with perfect technique.

+1.

In Spanish, there are two different verbs for "knowing":

. . . One is for "book learning" -- knowing physics, or philosophy;

. . . The other is for physical ability -- knowing how to ride a bicycle, or cut someone's hair -- or actually _play_ a piano.

If you want to compose, or just understand music, you don't need the _practical_ skill of playing piano.

But if you _do_ want to play the piano -- real music, at its proper speed -- you'll have to spend all the hours we all spend, developing the physical skills (and mental skills) you need.

It's not black and white... You do need to go through certain things to get better, but how long and how much to work on simple music should not be set on stone. There are teachers who are good at tailoring their teaching to students with different needs and abiities and teachers who are better at using a standardized process. You will get different opinions here too about how one should study. Some people have a hard time seeing beyond their own path. In the end you are in charge of deciding whether your teacher is a good fit or not. But one thing I am sure of: A teacher (or several) you do need to get where you want to be.

Ciao ARpiano, glad to meet a fellow Italian

So in essence your question is, Do I have to take lessons to learn how to play the piano? As many felt the need to state very clearly above, a good teacher will help you reach your goals more quickly, and with better results. But no, it's not absolutely necessary. You're an adult, you know what you want, your brain has already absorbed a lot about music - you may be the right person to try the self-teaching path. It is frowned upon here, but it's a possibility, there are several of us doing it, maybe not forever, but for some time. Some talented/ambitious people start playing Chopin after only a few months, or one year. If there is music you absolutely can't wait to play, you might start one or two pieces you love while working on the basics with other less interesting material. I've been self-teaching for 5 years, and although I'm moving very slowly and progressively, I found that there is plenty of beautiful music at all levels. And as soon as you get to late beginner/early intermediate, there are tons of wonderful pieces to learn without hurting yourself or your pride. Having the music in your brain and ears will help, but you still need to develop complex coordination and physical skills before you can do justice to Chopin's or Liszt Etudes.

You may also do both - take lessons, possibly from a great teacher with whom you can talk about music, and at the same time go on with your personal studies. Music study in Italy is usually extremely formal and demanding, so it may be good for you if you want conservatory-style learning, a rock-solid background with hundreds of etudes and exercises. But it can also be very dry and uninspiring.

You should talk to your teacher. Ask him or her to move you forward to something more challenging. You should be learning something from every lesson. Do you know how to practice? The reason to have a teacher is she changes how you practice. If your lessons do not teach you a better way to practice than why have them? This is besides analysis or articulation or something else.

You maybe in a strange situation where you know what must be done without the ability to do it. You still need someone to listen to your playing and tells you if you are doing what you think. Just because you know how something should sound doesn't mean you're making the proper sound. You still need someone to give you feedback. All pianists need that even very accomplished ones. Listening to your own recordings can help.

Lots of people could play well but few could teach well. Good teachers are hard to find. Also your situation is unusual. You should not feel having a non-optimal lesson experience mean you don't need lessons. Maybe your playing suck despite very advanced knowledge so your teacher have you playing things you think is easy when you are not passing his or her standards for anything harder. It is hard to guess without listening to your playing.

Self-teaching is fine to the intermediate level. It's impossible to learn properly the music you mention without a good teacher. All the books in the world will not tell you how you are wrong or how strange you sound. Only your teacher will do that and usually only after many years. Teachers never tell new students they suck. It takes years to build trust between teacher and student and to reveal to you your bare nake truth without risking hurting your feelings.

VID, when you find the magical shortcut, please pm me. I'm in desperate need of the information. Thanks

Wow! What a response, I already love this forum!
THANK YOU everyone for the helpful answers, I'll try to reply to everything

PS. Just to understand, the piece I'm studing with the teacher are Clementi Sonatinas 1-6 and some Bach (pieces from Anna Magdalena and Little Preludes).



This is my fear, and this is why I decided to take lessons



Now, this is the central problem for me!
I learnt so much in these years it seems to me the little practical steps I make are irrelevant, too much discrepancy theory/practice.
Yes, I told him what I have done, but not specifically... I don't think it would change the approach since I need to start anyway from the beginning (almost).


He said I have no problem with wrist or tension, also I have big hands (12th), I don't have to stretch to play (at least the pieces I'm playing now).
I have no problem with reading and counting too.
He just pointed out I need to aim at interpretation/musicality and dynamics, I'm still not used to play freely and with control the piano/forte and combinations of them.



This is my main perplexity, right this.
Thanks for th tip.



Ciao!
This is another important point: I precisely know what I'd love to play, I'm not saing just "I want to play Chopin Etudes" in general... maybe I'm exaggerated, but I made a list from beginner to ultra advanced of the spcific pieces I want to be able one day to play.
I would do what you suggest, to take lessons and doing my thins, but I'm not able to do my things really, also the practice for the weekly lessons suck all my time.

PS. Actually i really love some etudes, in particular op.740 by Czerny, I consider some of them as concert etudes, I really like



EXACTLY

I'm no expert, but unless you crawl first, you will not walk. And, unless you were born a prodigy, what you want is really not possible.

Have you tried sitting at the piano and playing the pieces you say you want to play, Chopin Etudes, Liszt, Beethoven? How did it go?

There is no fast fix in piano, believe me, there is none. You must climb the ladder technically and until then work on the simpler music. Good Luck

ARpiano, consider this:

If 3 years ago you hadn't just started with theory only, but with actual lessons, and stuck with them, then today you would be a 3 year intermediate player, not a total beginner! Wouldn't that be nice?

Now, ask yourself: Where do you want to be in another 3 years?

Do you still want to be a total beginner, because today (or tomorrow, or soon) you dropped out, because it was so "frustratingly slow"? Or do you want to be 3 year intermediate player by then, at least?

What I'm saying: You can't learn to play the piano if you don't play the piano! Every day (or month, or year) you procrastinate without learning the piano because it's too frustrating does not bring you closer to playing the piano. It only brings you closer to a similar post like this one in another three years - with you still being a total beginner then.

Now, you already missed your chance of being a 3 year intermediate player today and a 6 year advanced played in another three years, because you missed starting your lessons 3 years ago. That's water under the bridge. Don't miss this second chance you have today to at least be a 3 year intermediate player in three years!