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Next-generation RD stage piano with two independent sound engines and modern controller features Dedicated acoustic piano sound engine with the latest Roland advancements provides authentic, richly detail tone with full polyphony Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets) Eight knobs with LED status indicators and nine sliders for real-time control of sounds and effects Eight fully assignable zones for combining internal sounds and external sources (including software instruments) PHA-50 keyboard features hybrid wood and molded construction for premium touch and lasting durability Classic electric pianos on board, including Roland’s legendary RD-1000 and MKS-20 Recreations of vintage analog effects, including the BOSS CE-1 Chorus, Roland Dimension D, and more Over 1100 non-piano sounds, including organs, strings, brass, synths, and many others Two wave expansion slots for loading additional sounds from Roland’s Axial website, including sounds from previous RD-series pianos 100 Scene memories for saving and recalling setups with one touch Traditional Roland pitch/mod lever and two assignable wheel controllers 24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface
Tech Specs KEYBOARD SECTIONKeyboardPHA-50 Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys)SOUND GENERATOR SECTIONSound Generator2x Independent Sound Engines Sound Engine1: V-Piano Technology Sound Engine2: SuperNATURAL SuperNATURAL Piano SuperNATURAL (E.Piano, Clav) Virtual Tone Wheel Organ PCM Sound GeneratorMax. PolyphonyV-Piano Technology Sound Engine: Full Polyphony SuperNATURAL Sound Engine: 128 voicesParts16 parts (Max 8 parts are used in the PROGRAM)Tones1,100 tones OverProgram300Scene100EffectsModulation FX: 4 systems, 62 types Tremolo/Amp Simulator: 4 systems, 6 types Reverb: 6 types Delay: 5 types Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano) 3-band Compressor 5-band Digital EqualizerAUDIO FILE PLAYERFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)RECORDER SECTIONFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)External Storage DeviceUSB flash drive (supports USB 2.0 Hi-Speed flash memory)OTHERRhythm Pattern200 patternsControllersSlider x 9 (with illumination) Knobs x 8 (with illumination) Pitch Bend/Modulation lever Modulation Wheel x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 256 x 80 dotsConnectorsMAIN OUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type MAIN OUT (L, R) jacks: XLR type SUB OUT (L, R) jacks:1/4-inch phone type NPUT jack: Stereo miniature phone type Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2, EXT) jacks: TRS phone type MIDI (IN, OUT1, THRU/OUT2) connectors USB (COMPUTER) port: USB type B USB (MEMORY) port: USB type A PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4 inch phone type AC In jackNumber of USB Audio Record/Playback ChannelsSignal Processing: 24-bit Sampling Rate: 192 kHz, 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz Record: 2 channels Playback: 2 channelsPower Consumption23 WAccessoriesOwner’s manual Power cord Damper pedal (capable of continuous detection)OptionsKeyboard stand: KS-G8B Piano pedal: RPU-3 Damper pedal: DP-10 Pedal switch: DP-2 Expression pedal: EV-5 USB Flash MemorySIZE AND WEIGHTWidth1,412 mm 55-5/8 inchesDepth367 mm 14-1/2 inchesHeight140 mm 5-9/16 inchesWeight21.7 kg 47 lbs 14 oz * Actual weight can vary slightly from that indicated due to the fact that wooden parts are involved.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Wow. Specs are only half the story but blimey they've pushed the boat out on this one. Looks like an extremely interesting product. I do wish they'd ditch that bloody joystick thing though....ruins the proportions and aesthetic balance.
And they're so proud of their main piano sound in the first main demo, they cover it up pretty quickly with all the drums and other band instruments that join in after barely 10 seconds of actually hearing it...
Next a few nice sounding chords to listen to, but then quickly soaked in delay echo effects - seriously?! - can't we just hear it naturally? Yes, everyone knows it can do FX too. Anyway sounds pretty good for a slab stage piano - maybe not all Roland's best engineers went to Dexibell after all.
Hey Mr Kawai, how come you don't have two light-up mod wheels...?
"Gorgeous Acoustic Pianos Powered by V-Piano Technology
In a word, the RD-2000’s acoustic piano sounds are magnificent. Incorporating Roland’s very latest piano technologies and long-running V-Piano research, the acoustic voice is incredibly natural, responsive, and richly detailed. The dedicated acoustic engine features full-keyboard polyphony, allowing you to realize authentic piano performances without absolutely no compromises."
That sounds interesting.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Wow. Specs are only half the story but blimey they've pushed the boat out on this one. Looks like an extremely interesting product. I do wish they'd ditch that bloody joystick thing though....ruins the proportions and aesthetic balance.
I don't get it either. Why would anyone think an 88 note instrument should be longer? I know the color knobs helps, I guess, but who does their design? Weight? The edge where they put the logo is too modern for me, and believe me I love Scifi/modern but I prefer the more traditional look of the other big players.
24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface So it means, it has built-in audio interface. That's cool.
USB Audio Recorder: WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear – that's not cool. They could develop USB Audio Recorder feature, giving possibility to record also in 48 kHz – so many people making videos today. Videos need audio with 48 kHz sampling rate.
And they're so proud of their main piano sound in the first main demo, they cover it up pretty quickly with all the drums and other band instruments that join in after barely 10 seconds of actually hearing it...
You must have not seem the press conference.... from the beginning?
The guy from Earth, Wind, and Fire played the piano only and it sounds amazing...
Wow. Specs are only half the story but blimey they've pushed the boat out on this one. Looks like an extremely interesting product. I do wish they'd ditch that bloody joystick thing though....ruins the proportions and aesthetic balance.
Yea, that adds to the width of the keyboard. If I buy it I'll have to work on my flight case.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Wow. That's looks like one mofo awesome stage piano.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
"two wave expansion slots for adding even more sounds."
The FA08 has two expansion slots: Wave Expansion Slots2 slots * The wave expansion slots are rewritable internal waveform memory. You can download data from the Axial sound library site and write it via a USB flash drive into the FA's internal wave memory (slot).
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
I have a few questions, the way it's worded on the website could be quite misleading. What do we think?
"The versatile RD-2000 includes over 1,100 additional sounds for covering any style of music with just one keyboard. Roland’s SuperNATURAL technology provides highly expressive Virtual Tone Wheel organs, modern and vintage synths, clavinet, orchestral strings, brass, and many other sound types."
Does this mean we might stand a chance of getting some supernatural acoustic orchestral sounds!? ... The old PCM strings and brass is what's put me off RD's recently, and I was considering a Integra 7 for some time, but I literally just want ONE good useable strings and brass with some control, so if this could cover that, it would be amazing.
I REALLY HOPE this baby has 'tone remain' (Smooth sound transitions) as I've heard it called in an RD-800 video. I would be worried since it's not listed as a feature/spec, but it doesn't seem to be for the 800 either, and according to an Australian's video review, he says it DOES have tone remain, which I found very surprising. So surely they can't remove that, if the 800 had it?
And lastly, I hope this 100 'scenes' isn't a replacement for Live Sets which are currently 200, as I've always used that as a kind of set list mode (Such a shame they haven't done a proper set list mode. I'm sure everyone would want that playing live) but if there's only 100, that really limits storing your own sounds, and then doing another version which orders them.
This beauty looks very promising though! Like a bit of many Roland keyboards in one, focusing mainly on piano, which is perfect. I've found the Kronos way too mind blowing for quick live use!
Does this mean we might stand a chance of getting some supernatural acoustic orchestral sounds!? ... The old PCM strings and brass is what's put me off RD's recently, and I was considering a Integra 7 for some time, but I literally just want ONE good useable strings and brass with some control, so if this could cover that, it would be amazing.
I also would like to see some of the Integra-7 SuperNatural acoustic sounds in the RD-2000. I noticed that the RD-2000 doesn't have the S1 and S2 buttons above the stick which were used to trigger some of the effects on the Integra-7 but the FC1 and FC2 pedals could do the same thing.
I would like to see an Integra-88!
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Very nice that they have included both modeled and sampled pianos. For those of us (me included) who can't stand modeled sound, it's a very welcome addition. It was something I proposed as a feature for the next Kawai pianos but apparently it was Roland that listened
Yeah I am super confused right now about what is "v-piano" technology, and how it is different from the SuperNatural Piano. Are they calling the v-piano piano the SN piano (and is that the same as the the new fully modeled SN pianos on the LX/HP), or is it the RD-800's with sampled attack and modeled decay/resonance on the 128poly track?
Yes and then "Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano)"... So not quite the V-Piano like in "the V-Piano", exactly like they promised with the RD-800, which had a sampled V-Piano marketed as V-Piano. Now it's only their current latest modeled Piano, which we know is in the FP-90 (and is too synthetic in reality), and they call it V-Piano here and not over there, same old marketing bs at Roland, shamelessly, over and over again
...
For the rest of it they've basically stuffed the RD-2000 with all their old tech, like they always do...
If you need a stage piano.. but don't complaint you didn't know it was all existing in their catalog already, you've been warned!
I believe at some point when people will have enough of being offered to buy recycled trash advertised for novelties, there will be a class action against Roland's marketing constant claim of technology that are in fact pure re-branding of the same over a very long period. That would only be justice.
I am so confused now lol.. So vpiano is the supernatural modelled sound, and the supernatural sound is the older sample/model hybrid, correct?
It so, makes some sense to differentiate since anyone searching Supernatural will find lots of the older sample/model hybrid info.. they should have thought of this sooner though.
Also if it is not the fully user customisable vpiano as the Vpiano that should be made clearer.. Cause now the Vpiano and this vpiano are doing the same confuddling as did Supernatural vs Supernatural =_=
Last edited by Goss; 01/19/1704:55 AM.
Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
Just watched the videos of the musicians' impressions. Why is it that these people are so inarticulate and their observations are so facile and basic? They make a virtue and a talking point out of things every digital piano has been able to do for donkeys years.
Tip for DP makers: yes, get pro players to play on your little marketing vids but for pity's sake don't even think about getting them to talk!
Well there's no way to tell because they don't communicate on their tech at all.
V-Piano is supposed to be modeled, but the V-Piano in the latest is not customizable as the V-Piano, and then the SuperNatural is supposed to be based on modeling, but is in fact based on PCM and some modeling. And the PCM is basic sampling.
Roland claimed in the RD-800 the first piano was V-Piano tech, in fact it was sampled from the V-Piano, but wait, it was supernatural so how could it be sampled? Etc.
Here it's the same, it's labeled V-Piano on the box but it's the same audio engine they call Supernatural modeled on the LX series, which we know is based on samples, etc.
Roland makes great instruments, and the RD-2000 probably is, but they lie all the time about what's in there in reality. In most countries this is subject to law pursuits based on the fact you cannot advertise something that isn't really in the product. So Roland is at risk for such a class action yes, and it's only a matter of time when it will happen to them, because they do in all their products, for very long time. Imagine a generation of products from Roland is universally recognized as bad by the customers, what will they do in this age of social networking?
Roland knows it and that's why they don't communicate on the technical specs of their products, but reverse engineering these days can find it out easily, again, it's only a matter of time since someone is really pissed about that and works in a lab with a few tools to check it out.
Yamaha, Kawai, Casio, Nord, etc, they do communicate on the tech specs, and they can defend their innovation as much as Roland, who claims they have to remain secretive against the competition, when they actually try to avoid the type of industrial hazard a class action of abused customers would be.
The mechanism begins to show the bare rope on some other branches than the piano, if it's based on the same tech they claim is new and isn't, it will show in the piano dpt as well, and we're not done with this question of Roland fooling you with marketing scams, you'll see.
But the RD-2000 is certainly a nice piano though, in fact you already have pieces of it if you already have other Roland products, it's a pure mash up of various older or current devices, and its novelty claims, for the most part, is just not true - like in "Anaheim is the Capital City of the Moon" not true.
Supernatural modeled on the LX ( 17 7 HP605 etc ) is full model btw - dressed down Vpiano engine - the Supernatural of pre 2015 LX and HP is Supernatural sample+model hybrid - or were you just expounding on the general confuddlements XD
Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
Sadly its just super naturall key instruments.. (piano, dp, clavs, organ)
It woudl have been a blast to have a whole integra inside, incuding the synth sounds and brass and other orchestral sounds and a small color touchscreen then it would definately have given the Nord stage a blow in the face..
From the viideo' s however its safe to asume that there are also drum beats and an arpeggio on board, which is definately a nice thing
Maybe an idea for roland, to base a workstation on this, RD2000 + FA + Integra 7 sound set + ACB plugin support + EA7 functionallity in a single stagepianoworkstation
But for the RD2000, which still looks very very nice with what it has to offer, there is other things that i want to know...
Wil there be an ipad app? For edditing..... Will i be able to comtroll the RD2000 from a DAW like any VST? How many audio channels will it support over USB?
And i am really worried about the low number of user slots...
About the pricing at Kraft, it has the same list price as the RD800, both are 2999,-
Supernatural modeled on the LX ( 17 7 HP605 etc ) is full model btw - dressed down Vpiano engine - the Supernatural of pre 2015 LX and HP is Supernatural sample+model hybrid - or were you just expounding on the general confuddlements XD
I think I recall reading Roland Jay mentioning that the Supernatural sound engine in the LX17 was improved compared to the V-piano i.e., a new chip? I presume this same chip went into the FP-90 and the RD-2000? Also, is there---or will there be---an app for the RD-2000 to further increase the tweak-ability of the modelled sound?
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
Just watched the videos of the musicians' impressions. Why is it that these people are so inarticulate and their observations are so facile and basic? They make a virtue and a talking point out of things every digital piano has been able to do for donkeys years.
Tip for DP makers: yes, get pro players to play on your little marketing vids but for pity's sake don't even think about getting them to talk!
Lol, remember the George Duke V-piano videos??
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
I am so confused now lol.. So vpiano is the supernatural modelled sound, and the supernatural sound is the older sample/model hybrid, correct?
It so, makes some sense to differentiate since anyone searching Supernatural will find lots of the older sample/model hybrid info.. they should have thought of this sooner though.
Also if it is not the fully user customisable vpiano as the Vpiano that should be made clearer.. Cause now the Vpiano and this vpiano are doing the same confuddling as did Supernatural vs Supernatural =_=
Look, it's super-simple...and natural...
Along time ago, they used to have just plain sampling, no modelling. People thought this sound inferior and biblically un-natural. People asked Roland: please, we want at least natural sounds if not super-natural sounds.
The invention of COSM
Roland decided to invest in magic mumbo-jumbo during the 1980's, and invented piano modelling (COSM) which went into the RD1000 that was played by Elton John and others..It was magic, and everybody raved so.
However, we all complained at how dull the sampled piano-sounds in other Roland products were compared to Yamaha, and the Roland boffins were concerned at this disparity.
Invention of V-piano
So the Roland boffins strove and strained for a decade and then some, and they revised/evolved COSM modelling into a new modelled sound-engine which was branded V-piano. George Duke demonstrated it on YouTube, and we all raved because George Duke is awesome. Then Roland released the price and we all sighed. There was much gnashing of teeth. A few years passed, and actions improved. The V-piano started to look very overpriced.
The invention of Super-Natural sounds Vs. 1
Then, to placate us, Roland decided to use parts of the modelling technology to apply some make-up (piano effects like string resonance) to their sampled piano sounds. This hybrid sample/modelling was coined SuperNatural i.e., above natural, e.g., better than natural. The idea was to use the best of both worlds---people were hopeful. At this point, I imagine that all acoustic piano players realised that owning a normal natural-acoustic piano was pointless, what with SuperNatural being available. However, for some inexplicable reason, acoustic piano users didn't rush to Roland.
However, dark-clouds were forming: whilst being pleased with the upgrade to Rolands sampled pianos, we were not satisfied! We wanted more because of the V-piano. We lusted so. Roland realised more was needed.
The invention of un-natural V-piano sounds
Then, Roland revised the V-piano slab vs. to include new modelled sounds that actually don't exist in the acoustic world e.g., Triple Silver etc. This was released as a software update for the V-piano. Obviously these un-natural modelled pianos were still part of the V-piano brand so weren't called SuperNatural.
The invention of the V-piano Grand
Time passed and the Roland Boffins revised/evolved the V-piano full-modelling: improving it to make the V-piano sound more natural. They packaged the improvements into the V-piano Grand, which you could buy for the same price of a mid-engined Mazda sports car. It had the action of the RD700NX. Never-the-less, a good instrument!
The invention of the PHAIV and the RD800
Roland realised: wait, our action needs improvement as Kawai are kicking our donkey's. Roland verily invented the PHAIV action and included it in the RD800 stage piano---awesome job, nice instrument. But, they didn't want to include full-piano modelling in that piano, perhaps because V-piano owners would feel stiffed (or perhaps another reason). Instead, they sampled the V-piano sound and included it as a SN piano voice along with many other SN pianos (hybrid sampled/modelled). There was much gnashing of teeth. We were still craving full modelling.
The invention of fully-modelled Super-Natural V-piano technology, not to be confused with Super-Naturaly hybrid sound synthesis.
Time passed, and Roland improved the whole V-piano modelling further. Now they put it into their premium cabinet pianos (LX7/17 etc) for general sale at a reasonable price and included an action to close the gap compared to the Kawai actions: PHA-50. However, they didn't want to include full V-piano adjustability, because normal piano players want presets and probably didn't want the hassle of having to tweak on so. Therefore, for those who wanted a bit more tweak-ability, they released an app. Modelling for the masses
During this V-piano era, another start-up arrived on the scene: Pianoteq. Pianoteq got good: some said better than Roland, some said "just different". Time passed, and Roland decided that they could no longer justify not including fully-modelled piano sounds in their other ranges. Modelling was finally released for the masses e.g., the FP-90 and others. They first did the simple instruments and included the PHA-50 action. Finally relief for the pro-stage piano Roland owner
Now they've worked a bit more and released the RD2000 and it looks/sounds like a winner. Enough time has passed by for the RD800 owners to want an upgrade.
You've now got a situation where they have probably 3 types of Roland sound: 1) Only sampled (really old samples that might be included). 2) Hybrid samples/modelling (Super-Natural) 3) Fully modelled (Super-Natural V-piano technology)
So it's super-simple: Both sound engines are super-natural, it's just that the one based upon V-piano technology is more super: Super-Duper Natural if you will. As this is a gig instrument, they've included both sound engines, because as yet, not all instruments are fully-modelled. Thus, the boffins have more work to do.
I don't know how anybody could be confused really! All sounds are Super-Natural, it's just some sounds are more Super-Natural than others.
Last edited by Doug M.; 01/19/1708:31 AM.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
Great explanation, thanks really for summing it up. You confirm here there's actually nothing new in the RD-2000.
Nonetheless, their marketing is all like when you say "nuclear power plants are made with enriched uranium in reaction", tis great formulation of speech for the masses but nothing more. Nord says 1gb of storage for sampled piano, Yamaha says cpu 256mHz, etc. If Roland was to declare the technicalities of their products, that would help (I bet they wouldn't dare to show the misery of the raw figures). Why don't they just do that?, for now what have they got left, "mega", "giga", "nec plus ultra" is not far... will they go on with V2.0 after that to justify their "novelties"?
Well there's no way to tell because they don't communicate on their tech at all.
V-Piano is supposed to be modeled, but the V-Piano in the latest is not customizable as the V-Piano, and then the SuperNatural is supposed to be based on modeling, but is in fact based on PCM and some modeling. And the PCM is basic sampling.
The latest modelling engine in the LX17 is not as customisable (although you can use an app to customise to a certain degree) than the original V-piano.
The original SN sound engine in the RD800 was never billed as modelling; rather, the confusion arose when Roland used the same term (SuperNatural) to describe the sound engine in the LX17 etc. Now it seems they've added the moniker V-piano technology to SN, to avoid confusion.
Originally Posted by NotaBene
Roland claimed in the RD-800 the first piano was V-Piano tech, in fact it was sampled from the V-Piano, but wait, it was supernatural so how could it be sampled? Etc.
I don't believe they did claim the first piano was V-piano tech. They did originally state it was derived from the V-piano
Quote
The RD-800 features a large selection of grand piano sounds to suit any style, from solo performing to ensemble playing. There are 5 acoustic piano types and 34 variations to choose from, including a new Concert Grand tone derived from Roland’s flagship V-Piano Grand
In the same paragraph, Roland state that the sounds are from their SuperNatural sound engine. At no point do they claim the Concert Grand tone is fully-modelled.
Quote
Powered by Roland’s acclaimed SuperNATURAL Piano engine
Originally Posted by NotaBene
Here it's the same, it's labeled V-Piano on the box but it's the same audio engine they call Supernatural modeled on the LX series, which we know is based on samples, etc.
This statement is false: Roland Jay has confirmed on many occasions that the sound engine in the LX17 is 100% modelled without being based upon sampling.
Originally Posted by NotaBene
Roland makes great instruments, and the RD-2000 probably is, but they lie all the time about what's in there in reality. In most countries this is subject to law pursuits based on the fact you cannot advertise something that isn't really in the product. So Roland is at risk for such a class action yes, and it's only a matter of time when it will happen to them, because they do in all their products, for very long time. Imagine a generation of products from Roland is universally recognized as bad by the customers, what will they do in this age of social networking?
This is a matter of cultural tradition. For instance, I went to a martial art conference in the United States. There, everybody was a Grand Master 8th degree despite having been only a black belt for 10 years etc. Everybody was overselling themselves to market their image. I would like to know how the RD2000 marketing translates from Japanese.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
The invention of fully-modelled Super-Natural V-piano technology, not to be confused with Super-Naturaly hybrid sound synthesis.
Time passed, and Roland improved the whole V-piano modelling further. Now they put it into their premium cabinet pianos (LX7/17 etc) for general sale at a reasonable price and included an action to close the gap compared to the Kawai actions: PHA-50. However, they didn't want to include full V-piano adjustability, because normal piano players want presets and probably didn't want the hassle of having to tweak on so. Therefore, for those who wanted a bit more tweak-ability, they released an app. Modelling for the masses
This is quite an interesting summary, Doug. Thanks. One point I want to make is that despite all the technical discussion, ultimately we still have to play the instrument and really listen to it. Just because a thing is newer and improved over the older, does not mean we like the sound or feel better. When the LX-17 became available, I spent some time playing and listening to it. Personally, I prefer the sound of the V-Grand even through headphones (so speakers/amplifiers are not the sole difference, or even a factor). To further remove differences, I did a factory reset on both. To me, the V-Grand sounds more full (rich) and satisfying, as good as the LX-17 sounds. Others may prefer the LX-17. If I were buying today, I may still get the LX-17 for space considerations since it does sound quite good to me.
When watching videos of the RD-800 and the RD-2000, my inclination is that the RD-2000 is definitely the one I would want. However, it is certainly possible that on playing both and comparing, there could be things about the RD-800 that I might like better (or might suit my particular situation better), and choose it over the RD-2000. I have seen some discussion here about size considerations, and that may be enough of an issue for some to still choose the RD-800. Some may prefer the RD-800's keyboard feel or some combination of features or knob placement. There are all manner of reasons to choose one product over another, depending on the individual.
So despite the continually marching forward of technology and all the discussion here and in all the other forums now focused in NAMM announcements, it still comes down to "try before you buy". As some have pointed out, there are most likely some really good deals coming up on last year's models.
I am so confused now lol.. So vpiano is the supernatural modelled sound, and the supernatural sound is the older sample/model hybrid, correct?
It so, makes some sense to differentiate since anyone searching Supernatural will find lots of the older sample/model hybrid info.. they should have thought of this sooner though.
Also if it is not the fully user customisable vpiano as the Vpiano that should be made clearer.. Cause now the Vpiano and this vpiano are doing the same confuddling as did Supernatural vs Supernatural =_=
Look, it's super-simple...and natural...
Along time ago, they used to have just plain sampling, no modelling. People thought this sound inferior and biblically un-natural. People asked Roland: please, we want at least natural sounds if not super-natural sounds.
The invention of COSM
Roland decided to invest in magic mumbo-jumbo during the 1980's, and invented piano modelling (COSM) which went into the RD1000 that was played by Elton John and others..It was magic, and everybody raved so.
However, we all complained at how dull the sampled piano-sounds in other Roland products were compared to Yamaha, and the Roland boffins were concerned at this disparity.
Invention of V-piano
So the Roland boffins strove and strained for a decade and then some, and they revised/evolved COSM modelling into a new modelled sound-engine which was branded V-piano. George Duke demonstrated it on YouTube, and we all raved because George Duke is awesome. Then Roland released the price and we all sighed. There was much gnashing of teeth. A few years passed, and actions improved. The V-piano started to look very overpriced.
The invention of Super-Natural sounds Vs. 1
Then, to placate us, Roland decided to use parts of the modelling technology to apply some make-up (piano effects like string resonance) to their sampled piano sounds. This hybrid sample/modelling was coined SuperNatural i.e., above natural, e.g., better than natural. The idea was to use the best of both worlds---people were hopeful. At this point, I imagine that all acoustic piano players realised that owning a normal natural-acoustic piano was pointless, what with SuperNatural being available. However, for some inexplicable reason, acoustic piano users didn't rush to Roland.
However, dark-clouds were forming: whilst being pleased with the upgrade to Rolands sampled pianos, we were not satisfied! We wanted more because of the V-piano. We lusted so. Roland realised more was needed.
The invention of un-natural V-piano sounds
Then, Roland revised the V-piano slab vs. to include new modelled sounds that actually don't exist in the acoustic world e.g., Triple Silver etc. This was released as a software update for the V-piano. Obviously these un-natural modelled pianos were still part of the V-piano brand so weren't called SuperNatural.
The invention of the V-piano Grand
Time passed and the Roland Boffins revised/evolved the V-piano full-modelling: improving it to make the V-piano sound more natural. They packaged the improvements into the V-piano Grand, which you could buy for the same price of a mid-engined Mazda sports car. It had the action of the RD700NX. Never-the-less, a good instrument!
The invention of the PHAIV and the RD800
Roland realised: wait, our action needs improvement as Kawai are kicking our donkey's. Roland verily invented the PHAIV action and included it in the RD800 stage piano---awesome job, nice instrument. But, they didn't want to include full-piano modelling in that piano, perhaps because V-piano owners would feel stiffed (or perhaps another reason). Instead, they sampled the V-piano sound and included it as a SN piano voice along with many other SN pianos (hybrid sampled/modelled). There was much gnashing of teeth. We were still craving full modelling.
The invention of fully-modelled Super-Natural V-piano technology, not to be confused with Super-Naturaly hybrid sound synthesis.
Time passed, and Roland improved the whole V-piano modelling further. Now they put it into their premium cabinet pianos (LX7/17 etc) for general sale at a reasonable price and included an action to close the gap compared to the Kawai actions: PHA-50. However, they didn't want to include full V-piano adjustability, because normal piano players want presets and probably didn't want the hassle of having to tweak on so. Therefore, for those who wanted a bit more tweak-ability, they released an app. Modelling for the masses
During this V-piano era, another start-up arrived on the scene: Pianoteq. Pianoteq got good: some said better than Roland, some said "just different". Time passed, and Roland decided that they could no longer justify not including fully-modelled piano sounds in their other ranges. Modelling was finally released for the masses e.g., the FP-90 and others. They first did the simple instruments and included the PHA-50 action. Finally relief for the pro-stage piano Roland owner
Now they've worked a bit more and released the RD2000 and it looks/sounds like a winner. Enough time has passed by for the RD800 owners to want an upgrade.
You've now got a situation where they have probably 3 types of Roland sound: 1) Only sampled (really old samples that might be included). 2) Hybrid samples/modelling (Super-Natural) 3) Fully modelled (Super-Natural V-piano technology)
So it's super-simple: Both sound engines are super-natural, it's just that the one based upon V-piano technology is more super: Super-Duper Natural if you will. As this is a gig instrument, they've included both sound engines, because as yet, not all instruments are fully-modelled. Thus, the boffins have more work to do.
I don't know how anybody could be confused really! All sounds are Super-Natural, it's just some sounds are more Super-Natural than others.
WOW, funny, entertaining and educational in the same post....... "rock on bro" !!!
I remember testing the V-piano for the first time in an exclusive setting ( first store who showed off the V-piano) All 4 speakers properly connected and ..........."Okay so this is modelling technologie" i thought, it sounds a bit meh, but knowing it makes all those fancy realtime calculations added something extra in my perception,...... i guess ?
I know that blind auditions are the only way to determine if you believe something sounds better. Even worse than the 'sound' are the action "upgrades" the brands are serving us. As if they neclect some parts that can be upgraded one for one in future upgrades. Plastic keys can become semi- wooden keys Semi- wooden keys can become full wooden keys Full wooden keys can become full lenght wooden keys Full lenght wooden white keys can become full lenght wooden white and black keys Plastic key can become ivory feel Ivory feel can become ivory+ebony feel
And not to mention all the rest of the upgrades, simulations, enhancements that seem to be invented each and every cycle.
I read on another forum that a person opened his VPC-1 to get rid of the tiny plastic placebo let off jacks........he thought the result was so much better for how he wanted the keys to react to his playing, because the simulated let off produced an ackward side effect for his playing style.
Next-generation RD stage piano with two independent sound engines and modern controller features Dedicated acoustic piano sound engine with the latest Roland advancements provides authentic, richly detail tone with full polyphony Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets) Eight knobs with LED status indicators and nine sliders for real-time control of sounds and effects Eight fully assignable zones for combining internal sounds and external sources (including software instruments) PHA-50 keyboard features hybrid wood and molded construction for premium touch and lasting durability Classic electric pianos on board, including Roland’s legendary RD-1000 and MKS-20 Recreations of vintage analog effects, including the BOSS CE-1 Chorus, Roland Dimension D, and more Over 1100 non-piano sounds, including organs, strings, brass, synths, and many others Two wave expansion slots for loading additional sounds from Roland’s Axial website, including sounds from previous RD-series pianos 100 Scene memories for saving and recalling setups with one touch Traditional Roland pitch/mod lever and two assignable wheel controllers 24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface
Tech Specs KEYBOARD SECTIONKeyboardPHA-50 Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys)SOUND GENERATOR SECTIONSound Generator2x Independent Sound Engines Sound Engine1: V-Piano Technology Sound Engine2: SuperNATURAL SuperNATURAL Piano SuperNATURAL (E.Piano, Clav) Virtual Tone Wheel Organ PCM Sound GeneratorMax. PolyphonyV-Piano Technology Sound Engine: Full Polyphony SuperNATURAL Sound Engine: 128 voicesParts16 parts (Max 8 parts are used in the PROGRAM)Tones1,100 tones OverProgram300Scene100EffectsModulation FX: 4 systems, 62 types Tremolo/Amp Simulator: 4 systems, 6 types Reverb: 6 types Delay: 5 types Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano) 3-band Compressor 5-band Digital EqualizerAUDIO FILE PLAYERFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)RECORDER SECTIONFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)External Storage DeviceUSB flash drive (supports USB 2.0 Hi-Speed flash memory)OTHERRhythm Pattern200 patternsControllersSlider x 9 (with illumination) Knobs x 8 (with illumination) Pitch Bend/Modulation lever Modulation Wheel x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 256 x 80 dotsConnectorsMAIN OUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type MAIN OUT (L, R) jacks: XLR type SUB OUT (L, R) jacks:1/4-inch phone type NPUT jack: Stereo miniature phone type Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2, EXT) jacks: TRS phone type MIDI (IN, OUT1, THRU/OUT2) connectors USB (COMPUTER) port: USB type B USB (MEMORY) port: USB type A PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4 inch phone type AC In jackNumber of USB Audio Record/Playback ChannelsSignal Processing: 24-bit Sampling Rate: 192 kHz, 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz Record: 2 channels Playback: 2 channelsPower Consumption23 WAccessoriesOwner’s manual Power cord Damper pedal (capable of continuous detection)OptionsKeyboard stand: KS-G8B Piano pedal: RPU-3 Damper pedal: DP-10 Pedal switch: DP-2 Expression pedal: EV-5 USB Flash MemorySIZE AND WEIGHTWidth1,412 mm 55-5/8 inchesDepth367 mm 14-1/2 inchesHeight140 mm 5-9/16 inchesWeight21.7 kg 47 lbs 14 oz * Actual weight can vary slightly from that indicated due to the fact that wooden parts are involved.
I am curious as to where this info came from because it is at variance with official statements from Roland. Specifically this:
This makes it sound like it includes two acoustic pianos, with the V-piano in the first engine and their Supernatural piano in the second engine. But statements from Roland make it sound like the second engine is for electric pianos:
"Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets)."
This is important to me because I would like to have one instrument with both. The Yamaha Montage has an optional second acoustic grand sample set and I believe the Korg Kronos also has more than one grand piano sound set.
Seems like a winner to me, better action, modelled and SN sounds, lots of options for control. Really a heavy weight that may be worth the asking price.
It is a GREAT sounding, GREAT feeling, and GREAT looking new RD from Roland.
Did you really expect them to give you ALL of the features of the $6,000 V-Piano in a $2,500 stage piano?
And as I understand it - there are 2 additional blank memory banks already in the new RD-2000 where you can download various instrument sounds that you like directly into the RD-2000.
And, also as I understand it - you can play the sounds of the RD-2000 AND external sounds (from Pianoteq, Integra 7, and others) together at the same time (or separately if you wish).
Both of which the above give you limitless sounds to use with the RD-2000.
With all of the other new features of the RD-2000 - it looks like a real winner.
Did you really expect them to give you ALL of the features of the $6,000 V-Piano in a $2,500 stage piano?
TBH, on this front I'd expect even more (and I'm sure Roland has delivered just that since they say V-Piano is tech is actively evolving). the V-Piano came out in what, 2009? That's 8 years ago. This isn't a vintage antique, we're talking cold, hard technology here, and I'd be flabbergasted if a computer from 2009 still retained 40% of its value in 2017. That's how technological advancement works, and I fully expect benefits from an aspirational/halo project to trickle down to more mainstream products at greatly reduced price, efficiency and economies of scale in the course of time.
Originally Posted by polo1
With all of the other new features of the RD-2000 - it looks like a real winner.
That it certainly does! They really seem to have exceeded expectations with the RD-2000 (and successfully kept it a secret for a great unveiling).
The invention of fully-modelled Super-Natural V-piano technology, not to be confused with Super-Naturaly hybrid sound synthesis.
Time passed, and Roland improved the whole V-piano modelling further. Now they put it into their premium cabinet pianos (LX7/17 etc) for general sale at a reasonable price and included an action to close the gap compared to the Kawai actions: PHA-50. However, they didn't want to include full V-piano adjustability, because normal piano players want presets and probably didn't want the hassle of having to tweak on so. Therefore, for those who wanted a bit more tweak-ability, they released an app. Modelling for the masses
This is quite an interesting summary, Doug. Thanks. One point I want to make is that despite all the technical discussion, ultimately we still have to play the instrument and really listen to it. Just because a thing is newer and improved over the older, does not mean we like the sound or feel better. When the LX-17 became available, I spent some time playing and listening to it. Personally, I prefer the sound of the V-Grand even through headphones (so speakers/amplifiers are not the sole difference, or even a factor). To further remove differences, I did a factory reset on both. To me, the V-Grand sounds more full (rich) and satisfying, as good as the LX-17 sounds. Others may prefer the LX-17. If I were buying today, I may still get the LX-17 for space considerations since it does sound quite good to me.
When watching videos of the RD-800 and the RD-2000, my inclination is that the RD-2000 is definitely the one I would want. However, it is certainly possible that on playing both and comparing, there could be things about the RD-800 that I might like better (or might suit my particular situation better), and choose it over the RD-2000. I have seen some discussion here about size considerations, and that may be enough of an issue for some to still choose the RD-800. Some may prefer the RD-800's keyboard feel or some combination of features or knob placement. There are all manner of reasons to choose one product over another, depending on the individual.
So despite the continually marching forward of technology and all the discussion here and in all the other forums now focused in NAMM announcements, it still comes down to "try before you buy". As some have pointed out, there are most likely some really good deals coming up on last year's models.
Tony
Quite understand that sentiment. I preferred the Yamaha HX1 electone over it's replacement (EL-90), as I preferred the FM synthesis over the AWM synthesis.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
V-Piano technology is physical modeling. Supernatural pianos use sophisticated handling of samples.
Not any more. This has been done to death. The newer iterations of 'Supernatural' are fully modelled.
It looks like Roland changed their terminology, and at least for the RD2000, they are using "V-Piano technology" to describe the modeled pianos that currently exist in the LX/HP/DX/FP lineup.
I wonder if there are additional pianos that are being modeled in this new product or still the four models that come with the current Rolands.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Would be particularly interesting if the RD-2000 includes the entire SuperNatural Acoustic part of the Integra-7, as the FA-range covers the Integra's SuperNatural Synths.
Next-generation RD stage piano with two independent sound engines and modern controller features Dedicated acoustic piano sound engine with the latest Roland advancements provides authentic, richly detail tone with full polyphony Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets) Eight knobs with LED status indicators and nine sliders for real-time control of sounds and effects Eight fully assignable zones for combining internal sounds and external sources (including software instruments) PHA-50 keyboard features hybrid wood and molded construction for premium touch and lasting durability Classic electric pianos on board, including Roland’s legendary RD-1000 and MKS-20 Recreations of vintage analog effects, including the BOSS CE-1 Chorus, Roland Dimension D, and more Over 1100 non-piano sounds, including organs, strings, brass, synths, and many others Two wave expansion slots for loading additional sounds from Roland’s Axial website, including sounds from previous RD-series pianos 100 Scene memories for saving and recalling setups with one touch Traditional Roland pitch/mod lever and two assignable wheel controllers 24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface
Tech Specs KEYBOARD SECTIONKeyboardPHA-50 Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys)SOUND GENERATOR SECTIONSound Generator2x Independent Sound Engines Sound Engine1: V-Piano Technology Sound Engine2: SuperNATURAL SuperNATURAL Piano SuperNATURAL (E.Piano, Clav) Virtual Tone Wheel Organ PCM Sound GeneratorMax. PolyphonyV-Piano Technology Sound Engine: Full Polyphony SuperNATURAL Sound Engine: 128 voicesParts16 parts (Max 8 parts are used in the PROGRAM)Tones1,100 tones OverProgram300Scene100EffectsModulation FX: 4 systems, 62 types Tremolo/Amp Simulator: 4 systems, 6 types Reverb: 6 types Delay: 5 types Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano) 3-band Compressor 5-band Digital EqualizerAUDIO FILE PLAYERFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)RECORDER SECTIONFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)External Storage DeviceUSB flash drive (supports USB 2.0 Hi-Speed flash memory)OTHERRhythm Pattern200 patternsControllersSlider x 9 (with illumination) Knobs x 8 (with illumination) Pitch Bend/Modulation lever Modulation Wheel x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 256 x 80 dotsConnectorsMAIN OUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type MAIN OUT (L, R) jacks: XLR type SUB OUT (L, R) jacks:1/4-inch phone type NPUT jack: Stereo miniature phone type Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2, EXT) jacks: TRS phone type MIDI (IN, OUT1, THRU/OUT2) connectors USB (COMPUTER) port: USB type B USB (MEMORY) port: USB type A PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4 inch phone type AC In jackNumber of USB Audio Record/Playback ChannelsSignal Processing: 24-bit Sampling Rate: 192 kHz, 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz Record: 2 channels Playback: 2 channelsPower Consumption23 WAccessoriesOwner’s manual Power cord Damper pedal (capable of continuous detection)OptionsKeyboard stand: KS-G8B Piano pedal: RPU-3 Damper pedal: DP-10 Pedal switch: DP-2 Expression pedal: EV-5 USB Flash MemorySIZE AND WEIGHTWidth1,412 mm 55-5/8 inchesDepth367 mm 14-1/2 inchesHeight140 mm 5-9/16 inchesWeight21.7 kg 47 lbs 14 oz * Actual weight can vary slightly from that indicated due to the fact that wooden parts are involved.
I am curious as to where this info came from because it is at variance with official statements from Roland. Specifically this:
This makes it sound like it includes two acoustic pianos, with the V-piano in the first engine and their Supernatural piano in the second engine. But statements from Roland make it sound like the second engine is for electric pianos:
"Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets)"
This is important to me because I would like to have one instrument with both. The Yamaha Montage has an optional second acoustic grand sample set and I believe the Korg Kronos also has more than one grand piano sound set.
The info came directly from the Roland website.
Last edited by brooster; 01/19/1704:39 PM.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Next-generation RD stage piano with two independent sound engines and modern controller features Dedicated acoustic piano sound engine with the latest Roland advancements provides authentic, richly detail tone with full polyphony Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets) Eight knobs with LED status indicators and nine sliders for real-time control of sounds and effects Eight fully assignable zones for combining internal sounds and external sources (including software instruments) PHA-50 keyboard features hybrid wood and molded construction for premium touch and lasting durability Classic electric pianos on board, including Roland’s legendary RD-1000 and MKS-20 Recreations of vintage analog effects, including the BOSS CE-1 Chorus, Roland Dimension D, and more Over 1100 non-piano sounds, including organs, strings, brass, synths, and many others Two wave expansion slots for loading additional sounds from Roland’s Axial website, including sounds from previous RD-series pianos 100 Scene memories for saving and recalling setups with one touch Traditional Roland pitch/mod lever and two assignable wheel controllers 24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface
Tech Specs KEYBOARD SECTIONKeyboardPHA-50 Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys)SOUND GENERATOR SECTIONSound Generator2x Independent Sound Engines Sound Engine1: V-Piano Technology Sound Engine2: SuperNATURAL SuperNATURAL Piano SuperNATURAL (E.Piano, Clav) Virtual Tone Wheel Organ PCM Sound GeneratorMax. PolyphonyV-Piano Technology Sound Engine: Full Polyphony SuperNATURAL Sound Engine: 128 voicesParts16 parts (Max 8 parts are used in the PROGRAM)Tones1,100 tones OverProgram300Scene100EffectsModulation FX: 4 systems, 62 types Tremolo/Amp Simulator: 4 systems, 6 types Reverb: 6 types Delay: 5 types Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano) 3-band Compressor 5-band Digital EqualizerAUDIO FILE PLAYERFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)RECORDER SECTIONFile FormatAudio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)External Storage DeviceUSB flash drive (supports USB 2.0 Hi-Speed flash memory)OTHERRhythm Pattern200 patternsControllersSlider x 9 (with illumination) Knobs x 8 (with illumination) Pitch Bend/Modulation lever Modulation Wheel x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 256 x 80 dotsConnectorsMAIN OUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type MAIN OUT (L, R) jacks: XLR type SUB OUT (L, R) jacks:1/4-inch phone type NPUT jack: Stereo miniature phone type Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2, EXT) jacks: TRS phone type MIDI (IN, OUT1, THRU/OUT2) connectors USB (COMPUTER) port: USB type B USB (MEMORY) port: USB type A PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4 inch phone type AC In jackNumber of USB Audio Record/Playback ChannelsSignal Processing: 24-bit Sampling Rate: 192 kHz, 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz Record: 2 channels Playback: 2 channelsPower Consumption23 WAccessoriesOwner’s manual Power cord Damper pedal (capable of continuous detection)OptionsKeyboard stand: KS-G8B Piano pedal: RPU-3 Damper pedal: DP-10 Pedal switch: DP-2 Expression pedal: EV-5 USB Flash MemorySIZE AND WEIGHTWidth1,412 mm 55-5/8 inchesDepth367 mm 14-1/2 inchesHeight140 mm 5-9/16 inchesWeight21.7 kg 47 lbs 14 oz * Actual weight can vary slightly from that indicated due to the fact that wooden parts are involved.
I am curious as to where this info came from because it is at variance with official statements from Roland. Specifically this:
This makes it sound like it includes two acoustic pianos, with the V-piano in the first engine and their Supernatural piano in the second engine. But statements from Roland make it sound like the second engine is for electric pianos:
"Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets)"
This is important to me because I would like to have one instrument with both. The Yamaha Montage has an optional second acoustic grand sample set and I believe the Korg Kronos also has more than one grand piano sound set.
Agreed, I think they are still conflating their old "same SuperNatural name for both modeled and hybrid engines" and the new "V-piano" nomenclature they're redefining for future use. I wonder if the HP/LX descriptions will change over time.
Just watched the videos of the musicians' impressions. Why is it that these people are so inarticulate and their observations are so facile and basic? They make a virtue and a talking point out of things every digital piano has been able to do for donkeys years.
Tip for DP makers: yes, get pro players to play on your little marketing vids but for pity's sake don't even think about getting them to talk!
LOL, could not agree more!
And in general - what is with all of these Reps. from these companies?!
The Yamaha guy (with his little cap) is just downright... creepy.
The Kawai guy, Sean O'Seah, <fill in the blank here>...
The Roland guy is probably the most "normal" - but looks like he is constipated every time he plays the keyboard.
I mean I know musicians as a whole are supposed to be a quirky lot - but really?!
Can't all be turtlenecked narcissists who love to hear themselves talk...
No but a vocabulary of more than a few grunts would be nice. They've been hired to tell us about the piano. They don't have that ability, clearly. So hire someone who does. Someone who can play a bit and then describe their impressions of the piano in words of more than one syllable and in a way that sheds some light on how and why this particular piano is better. I half expected one of them to say, "And you know the super-cool thing is...it don't need tuning!".
Whew, for a second there I thought they were including all the V-Piano stuff with the RD-2000. I had no idea they were so stingy with their pure modeling. Aside from the action, the Physis seems like a bargain next to the older V-Piano.
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Matriarch | ASM Hydrasynth 49 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 10 Rev4 | Yamaha ModX 61
Do u regret not waiting for rd2000? Just ordered an fp90, but could switch and afford. Enjoy adding sounds but have rd170, korg x5d and rol lucina, logic 9 running ravenscroft vst. Hoping to develop a good workflow for recording piano and exploring other vsts for sounds. Seems like alot of knobs, sliders and menus to wear out but Seems like the rd2000 would be easier as a controller and the USB audio out specs seem great if using the rol sounds.
Can't all be turtlenecked narcissists who love to hear themselves talk - getting up on stage like that is no easy job to do
Funny...
This guy doesn't wear a turtleneck; and isn't a narcissist and does a great job...
Watch jack's Roland FP-90 review where at 20 minutes in the narcissist gets all hot and bothered batting his eyelids when he proclaims he'll take both Michael Bolton and Michael McDonald in any which way...
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Can't all be turtlenecked narcissists who love to hear themselves talk - getting up on stage like that is no easy job to do
Funny...
This guy doesn't wear a turtleneck; and isn't a narcissist and does a great job...
Watch jack's Roland FP-90 review where at 20 minutes in the narcissist gets all hot and bothered batting his eyelids when he proclaims he'll take both Michael Bolton and Michael McDonald in any which way...
The problem(s) with that are:
1. He is NOT a narcissist in ANY way; 2. He was JOKING!; 3. He is actually touring with a known English group as we speak/type...
It certainly would be nice to have all integra sounds in a keys instrument, wouldn't it!
Are you sure it's only 'keys' instruments that are supernatural? There's very little info about, but the fact this says "Roland’s SuperNATURAL technology provides highly expressive Virtual Tone Wheel organs, modern and vintage synths, clavinet, orchestral strings, brass, and many other sound types." you'd think they'd stop before getting to 'orchestral' if that doesn't use SN? As this makes it sound like it could!?
Also, I wonder how the Axial sounds will work? Is that a supernatural thing or not? If we can load better acoustic orchestral sounds in from that (As they seem to be much better than the typical PCM past RD string samples) That would be better than nothing. Is Axial anything special, or is it just like loading a Nord new sound library in? ... Such a shame, you can't put custom samples in! Even that old 'audio key' thing would be enough for me. So annoying they removed that.
As for the arpeggio statement, I don't think there will be anything like that included. I seem to remember deep in the depths of the RD-700nx tone list, there were random 'dance club' kind of samples towards the end, which you have no control over, and are just pre-made things, which you can either trigger, or not!!
The way I understood it, was all acoustic pianos and EP's they've ever put in an RD were in there...... however, I've seen some NAMM interview videos, where some guy says there's 10 tone types of piano. And I'm pretty sure there would be more than 10 from all of the past RD's added together!?
Very annoying how we have to really try/search to find out such info, before potentially spending thousands of pounds!
Who would like to bet if smooth sound transistions / "Tone Remain" has made it over!? I really hope so...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsAqsLX10uQ - 5:10 on this video, is the only place I've ever heard it discussed for an RD keyboard! I've never seen it written down anywhere officially either. Does that mean it's not really a feature and might not be reliable/they have something to hide?
I feel like not expecting cut offs between changing sounds should be a very standard thing for a keyboard, just as standard as wanting to use a sustain pedal to sustain your sound! It shouldn't be a 'feature'!!
The way I understood it, was all acoustic pianos and EP's they've ever put in an RD were in there...... however, I've seen some NAMM interview videos, where some guy says there's 10 tone types of piano. And I'm pretty sure there would be more than 10 from all of the past RD's added together!?
I recall he was saying that there were 10 pianos included with the separate "V-Piano engine" and since this is the first time a V-Piano engine has been in the RD, these are all new pianos. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying the RD-2000 only has 10 piano tones/variations total.
I guess there's still a question of what they mean by "includes every instrument in an RD." I'm not sure if they mean every different version of "Classic Harpsichord" ever included in an RD are all included, or just that if the RD-1000 had a "Classic Harpsichord" tone, the RD-2000 will have one as well, even if it's different/better/now-SuperNatural.
Observations from NAMM which are not my observations:
"They had about a half dozen RD2000s to play, no lines. Not good phones - Roland's own - but I've heard worse. Definitely better then the Fostex phones Nord were using.
The action - wow, very nice ! On par with the CP4 definitely (I stilll prefer the CFX sample on the CP4 though). And blows away the Nord piano 3 as far as playability. The player connection is the best I've ever experienced in a Roland keyboard and yes better then the RD800. It also meshes well with the main V-Piano sample. And that sounds even in all the registers. No notes jumping out. or too soft. Chords sounded good. Jazz single note lines felt / sounded smooth and phrases were easy to connect. Something I've always had problems with on all Roland pianos in the past.
I found the FP-90 to play but another electronic production was starting…of course at ear splitting volume level. So I just had a short play the FP-90. I did prefer the player connection on the 2000 over the 90. It sounded crisper and an overall more sophisticated sound….more Pro where the 90 felt more home hobbyist. Could be a better DAC in the 2000 ? You could somewhat tell the action was the same but the 2000 felt easier and more fun to play. To be fair I didn't spend all that long on the 90 -- I really wanted to get out of there at that point because of the sonic pollution.
I like the design of the 2000. I didn't try to lift it but the depth gives the keyboard a somewhat compact look. It didn't seem overly long either.
I didn't try any editing or any EP, pad or organ sounds. I did do a LH bass split with the Ac. bass. That's not on par with the CP4's but it's good.
I think most will highly dig this keyboard."
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Doug, I appreciate that your Roland summary was written tongue very much in cheek,but it's perhaps worth clarify this point:
Originally Posted by Doug M.
During this V-piano era, another start-up arrived on the scene: Pianoteq.
According to Wikipedia, "the original version of [Pianoteq] was released in August 2006", while the V-Piano was announced in May 2009.
Kind regards, James x
Thanks, I was shooting for tongue in cheek :-). Thanks for looking that up: always good to know the details!
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
FP90 does have midi over BT, sheet turning feature and BT audio - its basically the same machine as HP and LX range.
This new RD2000 has two expansion slots to expand its already large onboard sound libraries. Also if you read the rest of this by now huge thread lol you will find many other differences ^^
Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
Well there's no way to tell because they don't communicate on their tech at all.
V-Piano is supposed to be modeled, but the V-Piano in the latest is not customizable as the V-Piano, and then the SuperNatural is supposed to be based on modeling, but is in fact based on PCM and some modeling. And the PCM is basic sampling.
Roland claimed in the RD-800 the first piano was V-Piano tech, in fact it was sampled from the V-Piano, but wait, it was supernatural so how could it be sampled? Etc.
Here it's the same, it's labeled V-Piano on the box but it's the same audio engine they call Supernatural modeled on the LX series, which we know is based on samples, etc.
Roland makes great instruments, and the RD-2000 probably is, but they lie all the time about what's in there in reality. In most countries this is subject to law pursuits based on the fact you cannot advertise something that isn't really in the product. So Roland is at risk for such a class action yes, and it's only a matter of time when it will happen to them, because they do in all their products, for very long time. Imagine a generation of products from Roland is universally recognized as bad by the customers, what will they do in this age of social networking?
Roland knows it and that's why they don't communicate on the technical specs of their products, but reverse engineering these days can find it out easily, again, it's only a matter of time since someone is really pissed about that and works in a lab with a few tools to check it out.
Yamaha, Kawai, Casio, Nord, etc, they do communicate on the tech specs, and they can defend their innovation as much as Roland, who claims they have to remain secretive against the competition, when they actually try to avoid the type of industrial hazard a class action of abused customers would be.
The mechanism begins to show the bare rope on some other branches than the piano, if it's based on the same tech they claim is new and isn't, it will show in the piano dpt as well, and we're not done with this question of Roland fooling you with marketing scams, you'll see.
But the RD-2000 is certainly a nice piano though, in fact you already have pieces of it if you already have other Roland products, it's a pure mash up of various older or current devices, and its novelty claims, for the most part, is just not true - like in "Anaheim is the Capital City of the Moon" not true.
So many factual inaccuracies, and silly opinions, it doesn't merit more of a response than. "That was the silliest thing I've ever read, and I'm dumber for having read it"
I have the RD 700NX. I use only two sounds. The Concert Grand and the SA E piano 1. I found the other piano sounds cut down from the concert grand and LACKING. The E pianos are very good, but not excellent, somewhat two dimensional with no sweat and grit. I go for Keyscape for these. The 800 never seemed right to me, in particular the body seemed flimsy, in comparison to the 700. I never played it for long, but decided not to buy.
The 2000 seems to have gone back to the 700NX. The 700NX does not make a good controller keyboard - except for its superb action. There are only four faders and the Roland joystick is not the same as a mod wheel - for me.
I will definitely check out the 2000. 9 faders and some rotary knobs make it more feasible as a controller.
I have two real Hammonds here, and a Nord C2. The 700NX, and the C2 never get turned on for Hammond sounds. I hear the 2000 has an engine for Hammonds, and it is very interesting that you get drawbars in eight - not like the 700Nx's paltry four. The other annoyance with the 700NX was rooting through obscure menuies on a matchbox sized display. I don't think this has been fixed. Why cant we just plug in a tablet and see screen large? It's a common issue with all sorts of keyboards. In the end it is the sound though, and I bet the piano at least is excellent.
The 800 never seemed right to me, in particular the body seemed flimsy, in comparison to the 700.
This was a concern of mine as well - they lightened the 800 up (from the 700) because, I guess, some people thought the 700 was a bit too "heavy" for gigging...?
According to the specs and videos - the 2000 is the same weight as the 800...
1:56 "As well as SOME of the acoustic sounds" following from a what is supernatural and editable statement.
So does that mean we might stand a chance for a couple of good strings/brass!? ... It's concerning how quickly these kind of details are always brushed by in the demos, and not to be found in any spec lists anywhere!
I believe the Yamaha S90 also has on-board audio interface capability (interface sold separately).
In a nutshell, this means no need for an external audio interface. This is assuming no need to record an entire band at once (separate lines for each instrument). For that you might need something with more audio inputs.
What is the big significance of having both USB MIDI and USB audio?
SOmme synthesizer have both.
USB MIDI could be handy to record what you are playing. It can also be used to control virtual instruments on your PC.
USB Audio could be handy to record the sound of the piano. And it is a digital transmission (no noise).
quite a lot of Synths have this now - my MOXF even - has 4 channel USB In/Out Audio plus Midi - although I believe audio limited to 44khz unlike the Roland
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Cheers,
Steve
The good news.....I have yet to pony up the dough for the FP-90. Although I likely still will. (It rates higher on the Wife acceptance factor) I will reserve opinion until I have a chance to play an RD-2000. My former boss at Roland told me I could do staff purchases for as long as I wanted. I guess that's the benefit of being a good company guy for a lot of years.
When you get a chance to try the RD-2000 please let us know what you think of it. It would be nice to know more about the V-Piano sounds. Are they the HP-LX or more like the V-Piano?
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Cheers,
Steve
The good news.....I have yet to pony up the dough for the FP-90. Although I likely still will. (It rates higher on the Wife acceptance factor) I will reserve opinion until I have a chance to play an RD-2000. My former boss at Roland told me I could do staff purchases for as long as I wanted. I guess that's the benefit of being a good company guy for a lot of years.
Jay
So for you the FP-90 is the better deal. You seem to know a lot about Roland DPs, I think it's safe to say it's very wise to follow your lead on this, if you say it's the best, knowing what you know, we're lucky to get this tip
All I heard Jay say was that for his wife's budgetary concerns, the FP-90 was the better deal.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
When you get a chance to try the RD-2000 please let us know what you think of it. It would be nice to know more about the V-Piano sounds. Are they the HP-LX or more like the V-Piano?
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Cheers,
Steve
The good news.....I have yet to pony up the dough for the FP-90. Although I likely still will. (It rates higher on the Wife acceptance factor) I will reserve opinion until I have a chance to play an RD-2000. My former boss at Roland told me I could do staff purchases for as long as I wanted. I guess that's the benefit of being a good company guy for a lot of years.
Jay
So for you the FP-90 is the better deal. You seem to know a lot about Roland DPs, I think it's safe to say it's very wise to follow your lead on this, if you say it's the best, knowing what you know, we're lucky to get this tip
Have a good evening
For me it's a better deal ONLY because my significant other does not want all kinds of cabling and studio monitors in the main living area. I get that.
So when I try the RD-2000, and if I ultimately decide that it is the piano that I want to spend the next 5+ years playing, I will have to convince her that the Studio Monitors and cables etc are worth it.
It doesn't take anything away from either piano. Both will be outstanding. I know the FP-90 is awesome, and I also know my SO likes it (That counts for as much as any feature that Roland could have included). And I will have to sell her on the RD-2000 if I go that way. But until I have had a chance to play an RD-2000, no decision will be made.
FP90 is pretty good piano almost as proline, but what makes that price difference with RD2000? Both have good action, polyphony, function, etc. Are the # of voices, added V-piano, and # of sliders+knobs the only advantage of RD2000?
What are some benefits of having one over the other(and vise versa) and what do you prefer? Either one seems like it can be used on stage.
FP90 is pretty good piano almost as proline, but what makes that price difference with RD2000? Both have good action, polyphony, function, etc. Are the # of voices, added V-piano, and # of sliders+knobs the only advantage of RD2000?
What are some benefits of having one over the other(and vise versa) and what do you prefer? Either one seems like it can be used on stage.
You didn't notice the greatly improved tone quality on the piano for the RD-2000? I would never consider Roland before, but now...
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Cheers,
Steve
The good news.....I have yet to pony up the dough for the FP-90. Although I likely still will. (It rates higher on the Wife acceptance factor) I will reserve opinion until I have a chance to play an RD-2000. My former boss at Roland told me I could do staff purchases for as long as I wanted. I guess that's the benefit of being a good company guy for a lot of years.
Jay
So for you the FP-90 is the better deal. You seem to know a lot about Roland DPs, I think it's safe to say it's very wise to follow your lead on this, if you say it's the best, knowing what you know, we're lucky to get this tip
FP90 is pretty good piano almost as proline, but what makes that price difference with RD2000? Both have good action, polyphony, function, etc. Are the # of voices, added V-piano, and # of sliders+knobs the only advantage of RD2000?
What are some benefits of having one over the other(and vise versa) and what do you prefer? Either one seems like it can be used on stage.
From another poster:
I've owned an RD800 and it's nice, no complaints really except for that damn power cable debacle. However after reading Dave Ferris's mini review and PM'ing him, I'm pretty much sold.
To me the RD2000 is a no brainer when compared to the RD800 because of the inclusion of the V-Piano engine with its extensive editing. Now for $2499 you get a better action, v-piano tech, improved supernatural EP's, flash wave expansion to download new sounds and much more comprehensive master keyboard controller features all in a package that is still relatively giggable. I'll take it!
I'd say cough up the extra cash and spend your money once rather than get something you know will probably sell after you play the latest and greatest. I see the RD2000 as being a purchase that will last a while for me because of many of the uncompromising technologies included in it. When I need new piano sounds I simply construct them with the V-piano tech. When I want a different kind of vintage EP I simply mess around with the supernatural parameters to create "my sound". Finally when I need "other" sounds I simply go on the Axial site and download them.
Did you play a pre production RD-2000 before you left by any chance?
No sir.
I did not even hear a whisper about it.
Jay
Okay, interesting. I just wondered because you have got yourself an FP-90 I think...it seems like a real sweet spot in the range and had that been obtained with knowledge of the RD-2000 it would make the FP an even more compelling option to consider if you'd chosen it over the RD. But seeing as you weren't aware of the RD then my point is, well, pointless!
Cheers,
Steve
The good news.....I have yet to pony up the dough for the FP-90. Although I likely still will. (It rates higher on the Wife acceptance factor) I will reserve opinion until I have a chance to play an RD-2000. My former boss at Roland told me I could do staff purchases for as long as I wanted. I guess that's the benefit of being a good company guy for a lot of years.
Jay
So for you the FP-90 is the better deal. You seem to know a lot about Roland DPs, I think it's safe to say it's very wise to follow your lead on this, if you say it's the best, knowing what you know, we're lucky to get this tip
Have a good evening
LMAO - how did you get that out of what was said?
I also have no idea how that was construed from what I said.
FP90 is pretty good piano almost as proline, but what makes that price difference with RD2000? Both have good action, polyphony, function, etc. Are the # of voices, added V-piano, and # of sliders+knobs the only advantage of RD2000?
What are some benefits of having one over the other(and vise versa) and what do you prefer? Either one seems like it can be used on stage.
RD-2000 has a built-in audio interface. It's convenient and you don't need to buy a separate audio interface (everything is already inside, connected, adjusted and perfectly compatible). Also your music corner will look cleaner (less stuff and wires around).
THe internal audio interface can be veryvery handy, if it has some routing options so you can send the Piano sound to the DAW and take all the DAW (lets say with other instruments) out of the main output.
You get the audio interface and 3-5 cables out of the equation.
Does it also have the Supernatural APs (either the more recent modelled ones, or earlier sampled/modelled hybrids) or not? From the limited demo recordings I've heard so far, the APs just don't sound all *that* good (with a hint of that artificial V.Piano tone) and I I prefer the S.N sounds. If the S.N APs are only available via the expansion slots, are those sounds full emulations, or just static samples?
Does it also have the Supernatural APs (either the more recent modelled ones, or earlier sampled/modelled hybrids) or not? From the limited demo recordings I've heard so far, the APs just don't sound all *that* good (with a hint of that artificial V.Piano tone) and I I prefer the S.N sounds. If the S.N APs are only available via the expansion slots, are those sounds full emulations, or just static samples?
Greg.
Experiencing a tone from compressed YouTube or streamed audio wont tell you much.
Get in front of it. Bring a set of headphones you know and love. Experience the piano in person. Feel the player/engine connection. Then judge it.
"Artificiality" can easily be introduced by any, if not all of the compression algorithms for streamed video and audio.
USB-port for memory flash drive located on the back panel, which would be very inconvenient for me if I would considering this keyboard. The headphone jack is also on the back.
Their keyboard_stand would be also unusable for me: because of its construction it's impossible to put sheet music stand on the floor behind the keyboard, and generally it occupies a lot of space on the floor (big distance from the rear wall, big "tube" on the floor which in_my_conditions would make it impossible to put my monitor stands where they should be). For stage it's good, but still very big and heavy for transportation.
Also never liked their too wide side panel on the left. People were criticizing this moment many_times. But RD-2000 turned out to be even wider, than RD-800.
Originally Posted by JayGVan
Originally Posted by sullivang
Does it also have the Supernatural APs (either the more recent modelled ones, or earlier sampled/modelled hybrids) or not? From the limited demo recordings I've heard so far, the APs just don't sound all *that* good (with a hint of that artificial V.Piano tone) and I I prefer the S.N sounds. If the S.N APs are only available via the expansion slots, are those sounds full emulations, or just static samples?
Experiencing a tone from compressed YouTube or streamed audio wont tell you much.
Get in front of it. Bring a set of headphones you know and love. Experience the piano in person. Feel the player/engine connection. Then judge it.
That was strange to hear (read). I saw/listened to a lot of videos on YouTube, where digital pianos or VSTs sounded excellent despite "compressed YouTube". Everything is relative and inside YouTube we can listen a lot of demos, where some sounds we like, and some – not. And in the end many people care how their music videos will sound on YouTube, because their viewers will listen their works on YouTube, and those viewers will never take their personal favourite headphones to go to visit the authors of those videos and experience their pianos in person.
USB-port for memory flash drive located on the back panel, which would be very inconvenient for me if I would considering this keyboard. The headphone jack is also on the back.
Their keyboard_stand would be also unusable for me: because of its construction it's impossible to put sheet music stand on the floor behind the keyboard, and generally it occupies a lot of space on the floor (big distance from the rear wall, big "tube" on the floor which in_my_conditions would make it impossible to put my monitor stands where they should be). For stage it's good, but still very big and heavy for transportation.
Also never liked their too wide side panel on the left. People were criticizing this moment many_times. But Roland never listened, and in RD-2000 made it even wider, than in RD-800.
Originally Posted by JayGVan
Originally Posted by sullivang
Does it also have the Supernatural APs (either the more recent modelled ones, or earlier sampled/modelled hybrids) or not? From the limited demo recordings I've heard so far, the APs just don't sound all *that* good (with a hint of that artificial V.Piano tone) and I I prefer the S.N sounds. If the S.N APs are only available via the expansion slots, are those sounds full emulations, or just static samples?
Experiencing a tone from compressed YouTube or streamed audio wont tell you much.
Get in front of it. Bring a set of headphones you know and love. Experience the piano in person. Feel the player/engine connection. Then judge it.
That was strange to hear (read). I saw/listened to a lot of videos on YouTube, where digital pianos or VSTs sounded excellent despite "compressed YouTube". Everything is relative and inside YouTube we can listen a lot of demos, where some sounds we like, and some – not. And in the end many people care how their music videos will sound on YouTube, because their viewers will listen their works on YouTube, and those viewers will never take their personal favourite headphones to go to visit the authors of those videos and experience their pianos in person.
My Yamaha keyboard has the USB on the back. I just get a USB extension cable and problem solved. The same can be done with the headphone jack. These shouldn't be reasons to not buy a keyboard.
Regarding audio quality of Youtube videos, you make a good point, but you have to admit that it doesn't make sense to buy a piano based on Youtube videos. In some cases, like with an Ivory II sample > Youtube, you're taking many gigs of information and compressing it into a few megabytes.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
+ Torching a keyboard because the stunning music stand (of course you can choose among dozens of music stand for your needs) cannot accommodate a sheet music stand behind it - this is very silly and nit picky.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
If I was in the market, I'd share a lot of 9091's concerns. Yeah, none of that would prevent me from getting the best piano in my price range for my purpose, but 1) tons of people complains about the positioning of the joystick (seems to be a Roland signature, as it's across a bunch of their synths as well, I assume a significant segment of the population that we don't see here actually like it) and 2) I don't think he is torching the rd-2000 based on an optional stand, just opining on the stand itself; considering the very nice config he has set up at home (which is similar to mine but much cleaner looking) I'd opt for a different solution at well. The rest are just standard plusses and minuses we all mentally weigh when comparing different options, none of them necessarily the deciding point.
For all of us not fortunate enough to attend NAMM,. All we have to go on is pictures, video and speculation so we going to see a lot of hypothetical discussion until at least March when it actually hits store shelves. Can't wait to try one for myself, although I hope it isn't so good as to trigger any unignorable need for it
Ok. Maybe I was a little hard. And I agree about joy stick. If you want to bend notes on the upper octave, you better have a good wingspan! And excessive length makes keyboard hard to transport.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Their keyboard stand would be also unusable for me: because of its construction it's impossible to put sheet music stand on the floor behind the keyboard...
When I perform, I want to connect with the audience. I don't use any sheet music or any laptop. The Roland stand is beautiful, but it is for a professional performer who has a roadie and a truck. It don't think it collapses.
However, I think that the thread is about the keyboard. If they used a table top stand, people would say, "What an ugly stand."
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
USB MIDI has been around for a while, and sends note data to the computer. But it does not send audio. I think this is a big deal for recording, if I'm understanding it correctly.
For instance, on my Kawai ES8 I can record a MIDI performance to Digital Performer and playback MIDI files using the USB cable. But the cable does not carry audio. So for audio I need to either:
(a) send audio through the line-outs to my audio interface, which then sends it via Thunderbolt to the computer. This means that the audio goes through a digital-to-analog and then an analog-to-digital conversion, and does seem to degrade the sound a little. Or
(b) record the audio to a USB thumb drive (that plugs into a different USB socket on the ES8), then take that drive out and plug it into the computer and copy the audio file off of it.
The ability to send audio directly over the USB cable would be quite nice.
With its versatile outputs, the RD-2000 is ready to connect with any stage or studio setup. Main stereo outs are provided on XLR and ¼-inch jacks, and there’s also a sub output that allows you to route internal sounds and USB audio independently.
Then it appears to have an USB audio link.
http://www.sinerj.org/ http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/ Yamaha N1X, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
+ Torching a keyboard because the stunning music stand (of course you can choose among dozens of music stand for your needs) cannot accommodate a sheet music stand behind it - this is very silly and nit picky.
That's the right answer:
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I don't think he is torching the rd-2000 based on an optional stand, just opining on the stand itself
Recently (and before) I've read some opinions about it, and expressed my opinion here on the way: cool looking but not practical, especially for home use. Wouldn't choose it.
Originally Posted by login
You can get other kb stand, something from K&M, seems sill to complain about Roland offerings.
Sure, I have already some stand from K&M which I think is one of the best on the market, and which I wouldn't change for anything. So there's no problem actually, that was my opinion about specific stand. About "sill to complain" – I don't agree. I can and I will complain if I don't like something. It's normal, not sill. Don't take it so seriously, folks.
Originally Posted by Beakybird
My Yamaha keyboard has the USB on the back. I just get a USB extension cable and problem solved. The same can be done with the headphone jack. These shouldn't be reasons to not buy a keyboard.
Sure they are not the main reasons. There are many reasons: some are more serious, other – less. And all they in summary generate the overall opinion. I agree, the problem is solved. But only partly: you can't use one hand to connect and disconnect flash drive, which is less handy. And I don't like the idea in general, so still drawback for me. Some other companies offer better, more handy and cleaner solutions, preventing increasing of wires. It reminds me Apple's way: "But you can use tons of adapters and problem is solved". My opinion: the best way, when there's no problem at all, and user doesn't need to solve it.
polo1, thank you for the pictures, I saw them before. But I never think it's a good and suitable solution for my needs (serious work with sheet music).
Just from design perspective, much more refined and polished then RD800. Not groundbreaking in terms of expressive design object, but more desirable visually.
Speaking of "RD-2000 has every RD sound - date" I would love to see every synth/module piano as well. Specially U220/D20
Certainly more then viable choice for anyone looking for a new DP, but my curiosity mostly resides in Yamaha’s response to RD-2000. Will they rethink CP1 range with new model, or simply silent their actions for this year?
Piano setup: Kawai MP10, Yamaha CP1, Peavey DPM C8 served by GEM RP-X,Kurzweil MP/ME1, Oberheim/Viscount Minigrand, Roland MKS-20, Roland U220 and Yamaha P50m.
The Roland stand is beautiful, but it is for a professional performer who has a roadie and a truck. It don't think it collapses.
It does
Quite easy to collapse and transport from what I read.
Thanks for correcting me. I'd buy that stand for my FP90, but it goes for $350. I got a cheap Z stand for $45.
So the question is if the piano modeling in the RD2000 is more advanced than the current crop of high end Roland DPs or it's just new lingo.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
. . . So the question is if the piano modeling in the RD2000 is more advanced than the current crop of high end Roland DPs or it's just new lingo.
When the RD2000 "user manual" comes out, check the "Piano Designer" options against both the LX-17 "PD" and the V-Piano "PD" (or whatever it calls its control panel).
If the RD2000 PD matches one of them, and doesn't match the other, you pretty well have the answer to your question (and mine).
If it doesn't match either one of them, that suggests that it's either "sui generis", or derived from one or the other.
I just checked, and the Roland.com/Global/Support list doesn't include the RD2000 manual yet.
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
I can't believe in any of these videos, that some more topics aren't covered either voluntarily from the presenters (Who surely know every interview they do ends up on youtube anyway, so there's no point in repeating the exact same things giving us the history lesson about the old RD-1000 etc.) Or that the people interviewing don't want to ask some more specifics!
We all here have some many proper questions to ask, that would be actual useful info to so many people! Not things like "What does RD stand for?" ha! ... If only we were the ones there to ask these questions to the best people to answer them
Right! Brilliant! There's one BIG question answered. And off his own back too! Wonder if he's read my above post?
Strange that this pretty big feature, smooth sound transition, or whatever we want to call it, isn't listed as a feature or spec anywhere, or been mentioned before... I hope it's true!!
I talked to Roland's tech support. The V-Piano in the RD-2000 IS a V-Piano not the HP - LX piano. He also said that the V-Piano in the RD-2000 will have less adjustments then the original V-Piano. He also mentioned that the RD-2000 Integra-7 sounds were almost exclusively keyboard sounds. The RD-2000 is be available in March.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
I talked to Roland's tech support. The V-Piano in the RD-2000 IS a V-Piano not the HP - LX piano.
Fascinating. I can't wait for the eventual disambiguation on what exactly differs between the V-Piano engine and the fully-modeled SuperNatural one in the LX/HP.
And which Supernatural pianos *are* included? Presumably not the fully modelled ones?
Greg.
From my years with the company, and my interpretation of the Marketing materials...you get both.
Fully Modelled SuperNatural Acoustic Pianos, and the Sampling+Modelling SuperNatural based A and E Pianos, probably Supernatural Organs too.
Looks pretty killer.
Cant wait to try one out.
Jay
What Jay is saying matches up with what I was told when I called Roland Tech support. Question for Jay - since the FP-90 has the HP - LX pianos and the RD-2000 has the V-Piano sounds, how does the V-piano sounds compare with the HP - LX modeled sounds?
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
What about the hinted at SuperNatural strings? I've definitely heard Ed Diaz briefly mention it then quickly get off the strings/brass subject... plus the info on the Roland site makes it sound like it could be true?
The Axial expansion slots, those sounds aren't supernatural are they? But some of the orchestral stuff sounds much better than the included RD type string sounds... they would probably do me! I just hope there's no limitations as to WHAT Axial packs can be installed!
What Jay is saying matches up with what I was told when I called Roland Tech support. Question for Jay - since the FP-90 has the HP - LX pianos and the RD-2000 has the V-Piano sounds, how does the V-piano sounds compare with the HP - LX modeled sounds?
Something strange is going on here.....
The majority of forums consider Pianoteq as the number one playable piano vst. However the majority thinks it is still behind the top piano vst's soundwise !!!!
Those who have or have compared the V-piano with Pianoteq 5 + add on libraries are judging them equally capable....some minor differences and preferences here and there......but no clear winner and if i have to name one ,judging on online info, Pianoteq has the edge....
In hardware the consensus seems to be the other way around !!!!!???? Is it fully modelled after the V-piano ? As if that's the benchmark for the best Roland sound out there...''fully modelled''. I for instance do not really like the modelled sound of the V-piano or Pianoteq. I played the LX-7 a few weeks ago in my friend's house and was very pleased i wasn't the owner, because the LX-7 wouldn't cut it for me. I had/have the same feeling with the V-piano, not really my cup of tea.
So what is this positive fascination with modelling in hardware and the lukewarm reactions from diehard sampled vst fans vs Pianoteq (soundwise) Or do those who love the full modelled Roland approach think the Roland is better than Pianoteq ?
The RD-2000 supports Roland’s newly developed RAINLINK protocol, which provides high-resolution velocity control for compatible software instruments. This ability is particularly effective for deriving the subtlest tonal nuances out of supported software-based pianos.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
No string resonance (one of the most important things in getting the full rich realistic body of a real piano) in the V-Piano part of the RD-2000!? What!?!? Why would they take that away!? .... I'd rather have no hammer noise and damper pedal sounds and have string resonance!
Huh, me neither. You could argue that one of the foundational advantages of modeling is being able to handle "true" undamped resonance between keys. And Roland was pioneering sympathetic resonance in their DPs since what, the 1980s/90s?
Equipped with two independent sound engines, premium action, and advanced controller features, the Roland RD-2000 delivers unmatched performance on stage and in the studio. Blending evolved piano technologies with extensive modern control, this next-generation instrument takes the industry-standard stage piano series to new levels of inspiration and creativity.>
Performance Powerhouse
The RD-2000 is a dream come true for the performing keyboardist. It features dual sound engines that power our best acoustic and electric pianos ever, plus the finest action we’ve ever put in a stage piano. There’s a massive selection of top-quality ensemble sounds to cover any musical task, as well as two wave expansion slots for adding even more sounds. And with its innovative modern interface, the RD-2000 is the perfect master controller for working with today’s software-based instruments on stage.
Gorgeous Acoustic Pianos Powered by V-Piano Technology
In a word, the RD-2000’s acoustic piano sounds are magnificent. Incorporating Roland’s very latest piano technologies and long-running V-Piano research, the acoustic voice is incredibly natural, responsive, and richly detailed. The dedicated acoustic engine features full-keyboard polyphony, allowing you to realize authentic piano performances without absolutely no compromises.
Historic Electric Pianos
Via a second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine, the RD-2000 gives you access to a wide range of classic electric pianos from the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s. Included are newly developed recreations of the RD-1000 (the very first RD stage piano) and MKS-20 sound module from the 1980s. Driven by Roland’s milestone SA technology, their unique musical voices are instantly recognizable from that era’s hit records. Vintage effects are also on hand for processing your EPs, including the famous BOSS CE-1 Chorus and Roland SDD-320 Dimension D. Visit our special RD history page for more background on these and other classic instruments and effects, plus sound demos of the recreations found in the RD-2000.
Superb Playability
The PHA-50 progressive hammer-action keyboard with escapement is the ideal platform for playing the RD-2000’s responsive acoustic and electric pianos. This innovative keyboard features hybrid keys constructed of wood and molded materials, combining classic feel with rugged durability. Together with Roland’s advanced sensor mechanism and hammer-action design, the PHA-50 delivers authentic grand piano touch that’s right at home under your fingers.
Designed for the Stage
With its intuitive interface, navigating the RD-2000 during live performances is a breeze. Eight knobs and nine sliders provide instant control for sounds, effects, and more, and the knobs feature LED indicators for precise adjustment with instant visual feedback.
Zones and Scenes
The RD-2000 features eight assignable zones that allow you to map sounds to different key ranges, or create combination sounds with up to eight layers. And with the new Scene function, you can save 100 different snapshots of the entire keyboard setup and recall them with a quick button touch while performing.
Bender and Wheels
Equipped with Roland’s classic pitch/mod lever and two modulation wheels, the RD-2000 provides expressive options for any performance style. The dual wheels are useful for detailed sound adjustment on external synths, and are independently assignable per program.
Powerful Encoder Knobs
The RD-2000’s dynamic encoder knobs bring a new level of control to your live performances. LED indicators show the current knob value at a glance, even on the darkest stages. They also respond to velocity, allowing you to execute precise edits with slow movements and quickly move through tones and parameters with fast movements.
Ensemble Sounds for Every Genre
In addition to its world-class pianos, the versatile RD-2000 includes over 1100 additional sounds for covering any style of music with just one keyboard. Roland’s SuperNATURAL technology provides highly expressive Virtual Tone Wheel organs, modern and vintage synths, clavinet, orchestral strings, brass, and many other sound types. At Roland’s Axial sound website, you’ll find even more sounds to load into the RD-2000’s two wave expansion slots, including selections from previous RD instruments. And if you’re stepping up from the RD-800, you’ll be pleased to know that all your Live Sets are fully compatible with the RD-20
Command and Control
The RD-2000 offers the most extensive controller features of any RD piano to date, making it the perfect solution for commanding a large-scale setup. With the ability to seamlessly integrate internal sounds, software-based instruments, hardware sound modules, and more, the RD-2000 is mission control for the most advanced stage shows.
Connect with DAWs and Performance Software
Via the RD-2000’s USB audio/MIDI interface, it’s easy to integrate software instruments with a studio DAW or a laptop running your favorite host software on stage. You can control soft synths with zones along with internal sounds, and route their audio through the RD-2000 to create a powerful hybrid rig. The interface supports 24-bit audio at rates up to 192 kHz, allowing you to access your highest quality sounds.
High-Res Control with RAINLINK
The RD-2000 supports Roland’s newly developed RAINLINK protocol, which provides high-resolution velocity control for compatible software instruments. This ability is particularly effective for deriving the subtlest tonal nuances out of supported software-based pianos.
Flexible Audio Outputs
With its versatile outputs, the RD-2000 is ready to connect with any stage or studio setup. Main stereo outs are provided on XLR and ¼-inch jacks, and there’s also a sub output that allows you to route internal sounds and USB audio independently.
Built for Professional Performers
Combining the traditional RD-series appearance with elements of the V-Piano, the RD-2000 embodies both tradition and innovation. It’s designed from the ground up with the working pro in mind, with careful consideration of details regarding the interface workflow, sound organization, and physical layout of connectors, switches, knobs, and sliders.
Light and Durable
While the RD-2000’s feature upgrades are significant, its weight hasn’t changed from the previous RD generation. It’s still easy to transport from gig to gig, and the aluminum body is both handsome and extremely durable.
Extensive Foot Controletail: Pedal
The RD-2000’s four pedal inputs can be configured for damper pedals, expression pedals, and more. A DP-10 pedal is included for damper pedal operation. The optional RPU-3 provides a real grand piano pedaling experience, combining three pedals into one compact unit.
Matching Stand
For solid support on stage or in the studio, the optional KS-G8 stand is a perfect match for the RD-2000. It features an open design for a sleek look, plus durable steel piping and rigid bracing to ensure maximum stability. The KS-G8 folds for easy transport, and its height can be adjusted for sitting or standing positions.
Specifications
Next-generation RD stage piano with two independent sound engines and modern controller features Dedicated acoustic piano sound engine with the latest Roland advancements provides authentic, richly detail tone with full polyphony Second SuperNATURAL-based sound engine with 128-voice polyphony for electric pianos and additional sounds (compatible with RD-800 Live Sets) Eight knobs with LED status indicators and nine sliders for real-time control of sounds and effects Eight fully assignable zones for combining internal sounds and external sources (including software instruments) PHA-50 keyboard features hybrid wood and molded construction for premium touch and lasting durability Classic electric pianos on board, including Roland’s legendary RD-1000 and MKS-20 Recreations of vintage analog effects, including the BOSS CE-1 Chorus, Roland Dimension D, and more Over 1100 non-piano sounds, including organs, strings, brass, synths, and many others Two wave expansion slots for loading additional sounds from Roland’s Axial website, including sounds from previous RD-series pianos 100 Scene memories for saving and recalling setups with one touch Traditional Roland pitch/mod lever and two assignable wheel controllers 24-bit/192 kHz USB audio/MIDI interface with support for high-resolution RAINLINK velocity control
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
And which Supernatural pianos *are* included? Presumably not the fully modelled ones?
Greg.
From my years with the company, and my interpretation of the Marketing materials...you get both.
Fully Modelled SuperNatural Acoustic Pianos, and the Sampling+Modelling SuperNatural based A and E Pianos, probably Supernatural Organs too.
Looks pretty killer.
Cant wait to try one out.
Jay
What Jay is saying matches up with what I was told when I called Roland Tech support. Question for Jay - since the FP-90 has the HP - LX pianos and the RD-2000 has the V-Piano sounds, how does the V-piano sounds compare with the HP - LX modeled sounds?
Well we've marched 8 years on since V-Piano....and I haven't tried the RD-2000 yet, so I can't tell you how it's implementation of the V-Piano Technology compares to any other implementation. So...short the answer, is I don't know right now. But I'm excited to find out.
No string resonance (one of the most important things in getting the full rich realistic body of a real piano) in the V-Piano part of the RD-2000!? What!?!? Why would they take that away!? .... I'd rather have no hammer noise and damper pedal sounds and have string resonance!
10000000% there is string resonance in there. Adjustable 90 ways from Sunday too I'll bet.
That looks like a copy-and-paste error (not the only one BTW) from the likes of the RD-800 and 300NX, where they had only SN and non-SN sounds so they had to differentiate. But I'd be incredulous if it's accurate!
Edit: My response was to Marko's post containing the Roland reference to "String Resonance: SuperNATURAL piano only", but his post just disappeared....
Last edited by Gombessa; 01/24/1708:28 PM. Reason: Parent reply disappeared?
That looks like a copy-and-paste error (not the only one BTW) from the likes of the RD-800 and 300NX, where they had only SN and non-SN sounds so they had to differentiate. But I'd be incredulous if it's accurate!
Edit: My response was to Marko's post containing the Roland reference to "String Resonance: SuperNATURAL piano only", but his post just disappeared....
String Resonance "super natural piaano only" and not the other super natural sounds.....only for piano, not for all the other intruments... the statement is specifically aimed at super natural engine.. and does not indicate anything about the 10 Vpiano models...
Awesome! What a great musician. Mouth watering sounds. A tour de force like no other.
Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Yes. Good demo and he's a great player. To my ears the pianos sound a bit too polished and a tad samey; just a wee bit generic and anonymous sounding perhaps. Contrast that with the range of different sounds on the Nord Piano. They ooze character. I'm certainly looking forward to having a go with the new RD though.
Does anyone have any concrete information when Roland dealers receive stock on the RD 2000?
I bought mine yesterday and I stopped the owner from calling Roland. I didn't see the point, knowing when it will arrive won't make it arrive any sooner.
I looked at the web site of another Dutch music store and saw a date for June.
At the site where I bought the piano it says availability after 9 February.
Does anyone have any concrete information? Just curious.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
To my ears the pianos sound a bit too polished and a tad samey; just a wee bit generic and anonymous sounding perhaps.
+1 and in an ideal world Roland would have put multi-GB sampled pianos on there too. The sounds I'm hearing just aren't in the same class as good quality samples. I guess it's designed first and foremost as a stage piano though, and maybe it should be judged in a live setting?
Does anyone have any concrete information when Roland dealers receive stock on the RD 2000?
I bought mine yesterday and I stopped the owner from calling Roland. I didn't see the point, knowing when it will arrive won't make it arrive any sooner.
I looked at the web site of another Dutch music store and saw a date for June.
At the site where I bought the piano it says availability after 9 February.
Does anyone have any concrete information? Just curious.
Years ago, when the Roland FP-8 was just coming to market (probably about the same relative time frame as the RD-2000 is in now), I ordered one from one of the local music stores. This was well before Guitar Center had come to town, so all the music stores were small "mom and pop" places.
I waited and waited for it to come in, and I kept being told that Roland was not yet shipping that model. But then, another music store in town already had it in stock! I don't know how these things work, so I can't offer an explanation, but anyway, that was my own experience.
April! That's way off - too early to make ANY mention in one's signature whatsoever.
Just out of curiosity, is the main concert grand sound the same as the V-Piano Grand? The latter sounds a bit more authentic to me, but maybe that's because I've only heard it played through it's speakers, with natural ambience?
Given that Jay said yesterday that the V-Piano has a completely different sound chip and that more recent Roland sounds are utterly incompatible with the V-Piano I think we can assume one thing: Other than the fact the newer pianos utilise modelling technology, there are no other matters in common.
My reading of their using 'V-Piano Engine' and similar terminology in relation to the RD-2000 is just to emphasise the modelling aspects. I think that is sensible in a way given the dogs dinner that became Supernatural. SN 1 was sampled attacks, modelled decays etc. SN 2 is completely modelled apparently. It doesn't take much to confuse the consumer so calling it V-Piano Engine does at least cement the notion of it being fully modelled. Just my take on it...
EssBrace: Thanks. I don't think the fact that the old & new hardware is incompatible tells us anything at all about how much in common the two have in relation to the sound generation algorithms. Without further info, a typical scenario is that they used the V-Piano algorithms as a starting point, and then developed it further, exploiting the extra resources on the new platform. Sure, this new software can't run on the old platform, but so what?
I think it was mentioned that this V-Piano did not have all the parameters of the earlier V-Pianos.
My guess at what it says:
Tone Color Lid String Resonance Damper Resonance Hammer Noise Duplex Scale Key Off Resonance Cabinet Resonance
He was scrolling and there might be more parameters than what was seen and I might have guessed wrong on what I saw.
The V-Piano and the V-Piano Grand manuals are at the Roland site with a listing of all of their parameters.
Here are the parameters on the V-Piand and the V-Piano Grand:
Sound Lift Soft Pedal Sense String Resonance Damper Resonance Soundboard Resonance Key Off Resonance Unison Tune Stretch Tune Hammer Hardness Cross Resonance Decay Time Tone Color Damping Time Damper Noise Level
The parameters I saw on the RD-2000 video were most likely incomplete because it was scrolling and then the camera switched views. It is interesting to see the differences even with an incomplete listing.
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
...unless you need the same full 256 sound library that the MP8 had, so you can still use your one main wooden-key piano keyboard for all your professional band gigs too.
You either compromise with plastic keys and buy the MP7 with full 256 sounds.
Or you compromise and buy the MP11 then have to bring expander rack module to gigs.
Beautiful playing. And even though the recording is kind of potato quality, it's really comes across that the RD2000 has a very clean, authentic tone to my ears.
Glad to see some new youtube videos. I check every day! I was informed by Sweetwater this morning that we are now looking at April 3rd for the arrival date of the RD-2000. They thought it would be late February previously, now it is looking like early April. This tracks with what B&H shows on their site as well.
Bummer... but hey, lets hope it is worth the wait since I already sold my RD-800 and now only have a Nord Electro 5D and Mac. Gotta have that piano feel back and waterfall keys won't cut it!
Nord Electro 5D, Roland RD-2000, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.
->->->Originally Posted By ando in 2015 commenting on the 'new' HP/LX pianos:
"So is the decay longer than previous HP/LX models? I really think decay time is the biggest problem for DPs. I hate it when notes die out before they should. Why did Roland leave out the adjustability of the decay? It's pretty much the first thing I want to change when I play with the sound. So frustrating! I would so buy one if it had this feature. Are you listening, Roland???"
->->->post by pv88 in 2015 commenting on the new HP603-LX17:
"Yes, the above is absolutely correct as Roland has missed a very important feature in the new models by not having a "Decay Time" editable parameter available.
One of the only reasons I have kept my V-Piano is on account of being able to lengthen the "Decay Time" parameter otherwise all other DP's are just a stick in the mud (i.e., trash) without it.
I was hoping this feature would have trickled down into the LX-17 or some other model but it was not to be. Roland has missed the boat by not incorporating the most important features into their new pianos.
As it is the V-Piano is the ONLY digital piano at this time that has sufficient decay and I am not so happy with the mediocre sounds, either.
Scott Tibbs is an excellent pianist but he sure doesn't have it right that the "Vintage II" presets sound anything like a "Bosendorfer" Imperial concert grand.
What a joke -- the modeling is very poor in this regard as I can testify to this issue having owned a V-Piano for several years now and I simply will not make use of the Vintage II presets as they sound downright horrible.
I also bought and own a Clavinova CLP-585 which has a far better Bosendorfer sample than what is in the V-Piano:
There are other PW members that have given away their V-Piano(s) due to the poor quality of the modeling. I haven't done so as of yet but things aren't looking very good in that regard.
Roland should get their act together and develop a new modeled V-Piano with reasonable sounding presets. This modeling still has a long way to go to sound right."
->->->Now to the present time.
Does the RD-2000 have a "Decay Time" editable parameter??
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
I could never find this parameter on my 700NX, probably because it didn't exist, but does anybody know if there's a standard note 'release' parameter?? Literally something as simple as ADSR type release.
I found this was one of the only unique parameters on the Korg Kronos, and it really helped for that percussive kind of playing with a short note release. (But of course the string resonance still keeps going, it's just the actual notes that 'cuts off' sooner). Great for solos too when trying to emulate the good old, dampening of the strings with your hand trick, like this guy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxeb0cwjE8U
New demo, I think this is in Dutch, but the sounds are shown throughout. From what I can tell, this is basically an RD-800 sound set with the V-Piano and extra RD-1000 voices. Everything else sounds and is named in fact, the same as my Rd-800. Closest thing to a thorough review so far. Pity I don't speak Dutch!
Yep, Dutch ^^ Peter Scheurs product manager of Roland central Europe He opens with the new Rainlink protocol advantages and the flexibility of the RD-2000's zones and the PHA-50 action, and the new interface of the RD-2000.Some mention of the wood used in the PHA-50 action - asif it is mostly wood ( XD ) Supernatural engine in the RD-2000 ( same as the LX and HP recent ones ) 16536+ steps of velocity Lots of details on the new interface and slider functionalities etc..
Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
That video above was the most useful and interesting one so far, even though I can't understand a word, you can see what's going on! Nice to go into details a bit more. Wish more people did!
The slightly worrying thing was the lack of smooth sound transition when scrolling through piano programs (I've seen a video which states this RD does do seamless transitions!) yet later on when going through programs in the categories, they seem to change smoothly! I wonder what the limitation is...
The only other thing I really want someone to cover is WHAT axial expansion packs can come in. No one has mentioned that. What do we think? I think the orchestral stuff on board is simply bad, and some of those FA orchestral axial packs seem better, will they be load able? Are axial packs only board specific or are they just sounds which can be loaded depending on how much room is available? I'm too used to Nord sound libraries where there's no limitation depending on board, just a matter of how much room you have!
https://youtu.be/1Wop4yrNlhk?t=2215 he mentions in the future they will offer expansions for the expansion slots through the Roland Cloud. Offer and Roland Cloud suggesting at a cost, not free like Nord.
Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
I've definitely heard Axial for free, for the slots mentioned somewhere before!
I've just had my hands on a RD-800 today, just to see what it was like compared to my old RD-700nx. I was very disappointed to see you couldn't do the hold a category button down on the sound you want it to go to when pressing that button. You are just forced to go to "pad 1" when pressing the pad/choir button for example. What if I didn't want pad 1!? (Which I definitely don't) ... Why take away such a handy feature. I hope that's made it back in this RD! ðŸ˜
That video above was the most useful and interesting one so far, even though I can't understand a word, you can see what's going on! Nice to go into details a bit more. Wish more people did!
The slightly worrying thing was the lack of smooth sound transition when scrolling through piano programs (I've seen a video which states this RD does do seamless transitions!) yet later on when going through programs in the categories, they seem to change smoothly! I wonder what the limitation is...
The only other thing I really want someone to cover is WHAT axial expansion packs can come in. No one has mentioned that. What do we think? I think the orchestral stuff on board is simply bad, and some of those FA orchestral axial packs seem better, will they be load able? Are axial packs only board specific or are they just sounds which can be loaded depending on how much room is available? I'm too used to Nord sound libraries where there's no limitation depending on board, just a matter of how much room you have!
So I doubt that there will be patch remain on the Modelled engine. Too many parameters to load for that. The other engines, it probably wont be a problem.
As to the Axial expansions, give it time, but I am willing to bet that everything available to FA Series owners will be made available to RD-2000 owners (basically everything that isn't JUST core Synth tones, and who knows, maybe even those will be made available.)
I've definitely heard Axial for free, for the slots mentioned somewhere before!
I've just had my hands on a RD-800 today, just to see what it was like compared to my old RD-700nx. I was very disappointed to see you couldn't do the hold a category button down on the sound you want it to go to when pressing that button. You are just forced to go to "pad 1" when pressing the pad/choir button for example. What if I didn't want pad 1!? (Which I definitely don't) ... Why take away such a handy feature. I hope that's made it back in this RD! ðŸ˜
You could absolutely do that on the RD-800. If you liked Octave Strings, you'd select it, then press and HOLD the category button to keep that as the default sound for that category. I always used Piano #34 "Studio Grand" as my default in the Piano category. That's how I set it up. I will assume the RD-2000 will maintain this behaviour.
Oh great news! Cheers Jay. I wonder if the shop floor model had some weird out of date software that wouldn't do it, as I just couldn't get it to do that!
->->->Originally Posted By ando in 2015 commenting on the 'new' HP/LX pianos:
"So is the decay longer than previous HP/LX models? I really think decay time is the biggest problem for DPs. I hate it when notes die out before they should. Why did Roland leave out the adjustability of the decay? It's pretty much the first thing I want to change when I play with the sound. So frustrating! I would so buy one if it had this feature. Are you listening, Roland???"
->->->post by pv88 in 2015 commenting on the new HP603-LX17:
"Yes, the above is absolutely correct as Roland has missed a very important feature in the new models by not having a "Decay Time" editable parameter available.
One of the only reasons I have kept my V-Piano is on account of being able to lengthen the "Decay Time" parameter otherwise all other DP's are just a stick in the mud (i.e., trash) without it.
I was hoping this feature would have trickled down into the LX-17 or some other model but it was not to be. Roland has missed the boat by not incorporating the most important features into their new pianos.
As it is the V-Piano is the ONLY digital piano at this time that has sufficient decay and I am not so happy with the mediocre sounds, either.
Scott Tibbs is an excellent pianist but he sure doesn't have it right that the "Vintage II" presets sound anything like a "Bosendorfer" Imperial concert grand.
What a joke -- the modeling is very poor in this regard as I can testify to this issue having owned a V-Piano for several years now and I simply will not make use of the Vintage II presets as they sound downright horrible.
I also bought and own a Clavinova CLP-585 which has a far better Bosendorfer sample than what is in the V-Piano:
There are other PW members that have given away their V-Piano(s) due to the poor quality of the modeling. I haven't done so as of yet but things aren't looking very good in that regard.
Roland should get their act together and develop a new modeled V-Piano with reasonable sounding presets. This modeling still has a long way to go to sound right."
->->->Now to the present time.
Does the RD-2000 have a "Decay Time" editable parameter??
The RD-2000 does Not have a editable decay time.
Here is the complete listing of the RD-2000 V-Piano parameters: TONE COLOR LID STRING RESONANCE DAMPER RESONANCE HAMMER NOISE DUPLEX SCALE KEY OFF RESONANCE CABINET RESONANCE SOUNDBOARD RESONATOR DAMPER NOISE KEY OFF NOISE
Here is the list of the V-Piano and V-Piano parameters: SOUND LIFT SOFT PEDAL SENSE STRING RESONANCE DAMPER RESONANCE SOUNDBOARD RESONANCE KEY OFF RESONANCE UNISON TUNE STRETCH TUNE HAMMER HARDNESS CROSS RESONANCE ->->DECAY TIME <-<- TONE COLOR DAMPING TIME DAMPER NOISE LEVEL
HP603, HP605, LX7 and LX17 parameters (Sound Designer): Lid 0–6 Key Off Noise Off, 1–10 Hammer Noise -2–0–2 Duplex Scale Off, 1–10 Full Scale String Res. Off, 1–10 Damper Resonance Off, 1–10 Key Off Resonance Off, 1–10 Cabinet Resonance Off, 1–10 Soundboard Type 1–5 Damper Noise Off, 1–10
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
![[Linked Image]](https://static.roland.com/products/rd-2000/specifications/images/spec_size.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://static.roland.com/products/rd-2000/features/images/command_and_control_hero.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://static.roland.com/products/rd-2000/features/images/features_software.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i66.tinypic.com/289wt3q.jpg)