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Kraft has it for $2500.

http://www.kraftmusic.com/roland-rd-2000-stage-piano.html

Same as the RD800 a few months ago.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160911203730/http://www.kraftmusic.com/roland-rd-800-digital-piano.html

Oh dear....

https://youtu.be/04JnGqYUZLk

It does have a beautiful sound...

Piano:





Electric Piano:





Internal and External voices:

This looks very exciting!

I have a few questions, the way it's worded on the website could be quite misleading. What do we think?

"The versatile RD-2000 includes over 1,100 additional sounds for covering any style of music with just one keyboard. Roland’s SuperNATURAL technology provides highly expressive Virtual Tone Wheel organs, modern and vintage synths, clavinet, orchestral strings, brass, and many other sound types."

Does this mean we might stand a chance of getting some supernatural acoustic orchestral sounds!? ... The old PCM strings and brass is what's put me off RD's recently, and I was considering a Integra 7 for some time, but I literally just want ONE good useable strings and brass with some control, so if this could cover that, it would be amazing.

I REALLY HOPE this baby has 'tone remain' (Smooth sound transitions) as I've heard it called in an RD-800 video. I would be worried since it's not listed as a feature/spec, but it doesn't seem to be for the 800 either, and according to an Australian's video review, he says it DOES have tone remain, which I found very surprising. So surely they can't remove that, if the 800 had it?

And lastly, I hope this 100 'scenes' isn't a replacement for Live Sets which are currently 200, as I've always used that as a kind of set list mode (Such a shame they haven't done a proper set list mode. I'm sure everyone would want that playing live) but if there's only 100, that really limits storing your own sounds, and then doing another version which orders them.

This beauty looks very promising though! Like a bit of many Roland keyboards in one, focusing mainly on piano, which is perfect. I've found the Kronos way too mind blowing for quick live use!

Very impressive!

I also would like to see some of the Integra-7 SuperNatural acoustic sounds in the RD-2000. I noticed that the RD-2000 doesn't have the S1 and S2 buttons above the stick which were used to trigger some of the effects on the Integra-7 but the FC1 and FC2 pedals could do the same thing.

I would like to see an Integra-88!

Very nice that they have included both modeled and sampled pianos. For those of us (me included) who can't stand modeled sound, it's a very welcome addition. It was something I proposed as a feature for the next Kawai pianos but apparently it was Roland that listened

Yeah I am super confused right now about what is "v-piano" technology, and how it is different from the SuperNatural Piano. Are they calling the v-piano piano the SN piano (and is that the same as the the new fully modeled SN pianos on the LX/HP), or is it the RD-800's with sampled attack and modeled decay/resonance on the 128poly track?

Yes and then "Sympathetic Resonance (Only for SuperNATURAL Piano)"... So not quite the V-Piano like in "the V-Piano", exactly like they promised with the RD-800, which had a sampled V-Piano marketed as V-Piano. Now it's only their current latest modeled Piano, which we know is in the FP-90 (and is too synthetic in reality), and they call it V-Piano here and not over there, same old marketing bs at Roland, shamelessly, over and over again

...

For the rest of it they've basically stuffed the RD-2000 with all their old tech, like they always do...

If you need a stage piano.. but don't complaint you didn't know it was all existing in their catalog already, you've been warned!

I believe at some point when people will have enough of being offered to buy recycled trash advertised for novelties, there will be a class action against Roland's marketing constant claim of technology that are in fact pure re-branding of the same over a very long period. That would only be justice.

I am so confused now lol.. So vpiano is the supernatural modelled sound, and the supernatural sound is the older sample/model hybrid, correct?

It so, makes some sense to differentiate since anyone searching Supernatural will find lots of the older sample/model hybrid info.. they should have thought of this sooner though.

Also if it is not the fully user customisable vpiano as the Vpiano that should be made clearer.. Cause now the Vpiano and this vpiano are doing the same confuddling as did Supernatural vs Supernatural =_=

Just watched the videos of the musicians' impressions. Why is it that these people are so inarticulate and their observations are so facile and basic? They make a virtue and a talking point out of things every digital piano has been able to do for donkeys years.

Tip for DP makers: yes, get pro players to play on your little marketing vids but for pity's sake don't even think about getting them to talk!

Well there's no way to tell because they don't communicate on their tech at all.

V-Piano is supposed to be modeled, but the V-Piano in the latest is not customizable as the V-Piano, and then the SuperNatural is supposed to be based on modeling, but is in fact based on PCM and some modeling. And the PCM is basic sampling.

Roland claimed in the RD-800 the first piano was V-Piano tech, in fact it was sampled from the V-Piano, but wait, it was supernatural so how could it be sampled? Etc.

Here it's the same, it's labeled V-Piano on the box but it's the same audio engine they call Supernatural modeled on the LX series, which we know is based on samples, etc.

Roland makes great instruments, and the RD-2000 probably is, but they lie all the time about what's in there in reality. In most countries this is subject to law pursuits based on the fact you cannot advertise something that isn't really in the product. So Roland is at risk for such a class action yes, and it's only a matter of time when it will happen to them, because they do in all their products, for very long time. Imagine a generation of products from Roland is universally recognized as bad by the customers, what will they do in this age of social networking?

Roland knows it and that's why they don't communicate on the technical specs of their products, but reverse engineering these days can find it out easily, again, it's only a matter of time since someone is really pissed about that and works in a lab with a few tools to check it out.

Yamaha, Kawai, Casio, Nord, etc, they do communicate on the tech specs, and they can defend their innovation as much as Roland, who claims they have to remain secretive against the competition, when they actually try to avoid the type of industrial hazard a class action of abused customers would be.

The mechanism begins to show the bare rope on some other branches than the piano, if it's based on the same tech they claim is new and isn't, it will show in the piano dpt as well, and we're not done with this question of Roland fooling you with marketing scams, you'll see.

But the RD-2000 is certainly a nice piano though, in fact you already have pieces of it if you already have other Roland products, it's a pure mash up of various older or current devices, and its novelty claims, for the most part, is just not true - like in "Anaheim is the Capital City of the Moon" not true.

Supernatural modeled on the LX ( 17 7 HP605 etc ) is full model btw - dressed down Vpiano engine - the Supernatural of pre 2015 LX and HP is Supernatural sample+model hybrid - or were you just expounding on the general confuddlements XD

Sadly its just super naturall key instruments.. (piano, dp, clavs, organ)

It woudl have been a blast to have a whole integra inside, incuding the synth sounds and brass and other orchestral sounds and a small color touchscreen then it would definately have given the Nord stage a blow in the face..

From the viideo' s however its safe to asume that there are also drum beats and an arpeggio on board, which is definately a nice thing



Maybe an idea for roland, to base a workstation on this, RD2000 + FA + Integra 7 sound set + ACB plugin support + EA7 functionallity in a single stagepianoworkstation






But for the RD2000, which still looks very very nice with what it has to offer, there is other things that i want to know...

Wil there be an ipad app? For edditing.....
Will i be able to comtroll the RD2000 from a DAW like any VST?
How many audio channels will it support over USB?

And i am really worried about the low number of user slots...




About the pricing at Kraft, it has the same list price as the RD800, both are 2999,-

I think I recall reading Roland Jay mentioning that the Supernatural sound engine in the LX17 was improved compared to the V-piano i.e., a new chip? I presume this same chip went into the FP-90 and the RD-2000? Also, is there---or will there be---an app for the RD-2000 to further increase the tweak-ability of the modelled sound?

Lol, remember the George Duke V-piano videos??

Look, it's super-simple...and natural...

Along time ago, they used to have just plain sampling, no modelling. People thought this sound inferior and biblically un-natural. People asked Roland: please, we want at least natural sounds if not super-natural sounds.

The invention of COSM

Roland decided to invest in magic mumbo-jumbo during the 1980's, and invented piano modelling (COSM) which went into the RD1000 that was played by Elton John and others..It was magic, and everybody raved so.

However, we all complained at how dull the sampled piano-sounds in other Roland products were compared to Yamaha, and the Roland boffins were concerned at this disparity.

Invention of V-piano

So the Roland boffins strove and strained for a decade and then some, and they revised/evolved COSM modelling into a new modelled sound-engine which was branded V-piano. George Duke demonstrated it on YouTube, and we all raved because George Duke is awesome. Then Roland released the price and we all sighed. There was much gnashing of teeth. A few years passed, and actions improved. The V-piano started to look very overpriced.

The invention of Super-Natural sounds Vs. 1

Then, to placate us, Roland decided to use parts of the modelling technology to apply some make-up (piano effects like string resonance) to their sampled piano sounds. This hybrid sample/modelling was coined SuperNatural i.e., above natural, e.g., better than natural. The idea was to use the best of both worlds---people were hopeful. At this point, I imagine that all acoustic piano players realised that owning a normal natural-acoustic piano was pointless, what with SuperNatural being available. However, for some inexplicable reason, acoustic piano users didn't rush to Roland.

However, dark-clouds were forming: whilst being pleased with the upgrade to Rolands sampled pianos, we were not satisfied! We wanted more because of the V-piano. We lusted so. Roland realised more was needed.


The invention of un-natural V-piano sounds

Then, Roland revised the V-piano slab vs. to include new modelled sounds that actually don't exist in the acoustic world e.g., Triple Silver etc. This was released as a software update for the V-piano. Obviously these un-natural modelled pianos were still part of the V-piano brand so weren't called SuperNatural.

The invention of the V-piano Grand

Time passed and the Roland Boffins revised/evolved the V-piano full-modelling: improving it to make the V-piano sound more natural. They packaged the improvements into the V-piano Grand, which you could buy for the same price of a mid-engined Mazda sports car. It had the action of the RD700NX. Never-the-less, a good instrument!

The invention of the PHAIV and the RD800

Roland realised: wait, our action needs improvement as Kawai are kicking our donkey's. Roland verily invented the PHAIV action and included it in the RD800 stage piano---awesome job, nice instrument. But, they didn't want to include full-piano modelling in that piano, perhaps because V-piano owners would feel stiffed (or perhaps another reason). Instead, they sampled the V-piano sound and included it as a SN piano voice along with many other SN pianos (hybrid sampled/modelled). There was much gnashing of teeth. We were still craving full modelling.


The invention of fully-modelled Super-Natural V-piano technology, not to be confused with Super-Naturaly hybrid sound synthesis.

Time passed, and Roland improved the whole V-piano modelling further. Now they put it into their premium cabinet pianos (LX7/17 etc) for general sale at a reasonable price and included an action to close the gap compared to the Kawai actions: PHA-50. However, they didn't want to include full V-piano adjustability, because normal piano players want presets and probably didn't want the hassle of having to tweak on so. Therefore, for those who wanted a bit more tweak-ability, they released an app.

Modelling for the masses

During this V-piano era, another start-up arrived on the scene: Pianoteq. Pianoteq got good: some said better than Roland, some said "just different". Time passed, and Roland decided that they could no longer justify not including fully-modelled piano sounds in their other ranges. Modelling was finally released for the masses e.g., the FP-90 and others. They first did the simple instruments and included the PHA-50 action.

Finally relief for the pro-stage piano Roland owner

Now they've worked a bit more and released the RD2000 and it looks/sounds like a winner. Enough time has passed by for the RD800 owners to want an upgrade.


You've now got a situation where they have probably 3 types of Roland sound:
1) Only sampled (really old samples that might be included).
2) Hybrid samples/modelling (Super-Natural)
3) Fully modelled (Super-Natural V-piano technology)

So it's super-simple: Both sound engines are super-natural, it's just that the one based upon V-piano technology is more super: Super-Duper Natural if you will. As this is a gig instrument, they've included both sound engines, because as yet, not all instruments are fully-modelled. Thus, the boffins have more work to do.

I don't know how anybody could be confused really! All sounds are Super-Natural, it's just some sounds are more Super-Natural than others.

Great explanation, thanks really for summing it up. You confirm here there's actually nothing new in the RD-2000.

Nonetheless, their marketing is all like when you say "nuclear power plants are made with enriched uranium in reaction", tis great formulation of speech for the masses but nothing more. Nord says 1gb of storage for sampled piano, Yamaha says cpu 256mHz, etc. If Roland was to declare the technicalities of their products, that would help (I bet they wouldn't dare to show the misery of the raw figures). Why don't they just do that?, for now what have they got left, "mega", "giga", "nec plus ultra" is not far... will they go on with V2.0 after that to justify their "novelties"?

The latest modelling engine in the LX17 is not as customisable (although you can use an app to customise to a certain degree) than the original V-piano.

The original SN sound engine in the RD800 was never billed as modelling; rather, the confusion arose when Roland used the same term (SuperNatural) to describe the sound engine in the LX17 etc. Now it seems they've added the moniker V-piano technology to SN, to avoid confusion.



I don't believe they did claim the first piano was V-piano tech. They did originally state it was derived from the V-piano



In the same paragraph, Roland state that the sounds are from their SuperNatural sound engine. At no point do they claim the Concert Grand tone is fully-modelled.





This statement is false: Roland Jay has confirmed on many occasions that the sound engine in the LX17 is 100% modelled without being based upon sampling.



This is a matter of cultural tradition. For instance, I went to a martial art conference in the United States. There, everybody was a Grand Master 8th degree despite having been only a black belt for 10 years etc. Everybody was overselling themselves to market their image. I would like to know how the RD2000 marketing translates from Japanese.

Thanks Doug ^^ now I know all these facts - my wife will be so happy when I explain it all to her XD