Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000?

Maybe we are at cross purposes. I'm sticking to my guns. To my mind it's effectively the key activating the sensors. If the sensors were where they would be struck by the reciprocal weighted part of the hammer, i.e., the hammer 'head', then I'd agree with you.

I will, another day, seems noone ever talks about it though, I don't know of anyone owning one here, seeing it is still a keyboard of sorts.

Anyway, I was just mesmerised by that toy the few couple of times I tried it comparing to more conventional keyboards, must be just me and my obsession with it. :P

Anyway, I was just mesmerised by that toy ...

I think the key word is ... toy.

My local music store also had that keyboard on display. I choose to ignore it.

Yeah I would feel better too if it was the hammer head contacted the sensor, though I don't think that physics-wise it follows.

One key fact, most visible in the Yamaha image: you can strike the key hard enough to impart momentum on the hammer, which will follow through its travel and strike the sensor even if the key never bottoms out. In other words, the key is not physically connected to the hammer, which flies on its own.

Because of you are arguing that it is really the key pressing the sensor due to the position under the lever, then it would be exactly the same problem even if it was the weighted end hitting the sensor. In the end it is still "the key" doing the hitting and it's still ignoring the independent momentum of the hammer.

Apologies to Dave...we are OT!

But....to my mind the obvious place to have a sensor or sensors would be where the 'sensors' are in an acoustic piano, i.e., the strings are the 'sensors'. This is where the hammer strikes but I've never seen images that suggest the sensor position in any DP is in a place comparable to that point. I know the AG has optical sensors on keys and hammers. And the wooden Kawais' sensors are closer to the weighted part of the hammer than other conventional DPs although they are still nearer to the part of the hammer activated by the ends of the key rather then the weighted part of the hammer. It's probably an academic point because it's the results that count but even so...

The ultra-exotic Alpha piano (does it exist yet?) purports to have the sensor where the strings would be, as far as I can tell: http://www.alpha-piano.com/beschreibung-alpha-piano

Greg.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. In most DP's (mine, for example), the connection between the keyboard and the sound generator _is_ a MIDI data stream:

. . . You can record the MIDI data, and play it back,
. . . and it sounds the same as when you played it "live".

There are some subtleties -- "double-precision" MIDI (useless IMHO), and some keyboard actions send "note-off velocity" (which controls the speed of damping in the sound generator).

But basically:

. . . Press or release a key -->
. . . . . Generate MIDI data -->
. . . . . . . MIDI data is input to sound generator -->
. . . . . . . . Sound generator output is sent to amps and speakers.

There might be something beyond that in some very-high-end DP's -- the DisKlaviers, Avant Grands and V-Grand and such. But for everything from a Casio CTK keyboard to a Kawai CA97, that's a good model.

While we are obsessed by off-topic technical details (sorry...), this is from Kurzweil's MP20 product page:

"Great piano control starts with the keyboard action and the MP20 has one of KURZWEIL's best proprietary hammer-action keyboards. Hammer motion, not key motion, is sensed to provide the most accurate dynamic control possible."

It must be something really fancy and unique, right? Hammers swinging freely like in a grand? Or AvantGrand.

Here it is on the left side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1QQB21QeE&feature=youtu.be&t=1m8s

So, if you go for the optional Fatar action, which is supposedly an "upgrade" you end up with an "inferior" action where the sensors are triggered by the keys instead of the hammers. Yuck!

I guess it is safe to say that self-absorbed people are either too lazy or ignorant of how to start their own thread.

Ah i thought that the thread starter had all the answers he was appearently after :-)

Dave Horne Quote :

Everything else that has been discussed in the latter stages of this thread is therefor a huge bonus

Geeezz folks back OT. Dave I was the one that posted the "leaked" pic of the now RD2000 and I've already made the decision to go for it! I've owned an RD800 and it's nice, no complaints really except for that damn power cable debacle. However after reading Dave Ferris's mini review and PM'ing him, I'm pretty much sold. If I had the time this year I would have been at NAMM to try things out, but unfortunately I'm in NY and going across the nation wasn't happening this year the wife said lol. Anyway I appreciate that we have forum members here, always willing to give useful information and experiences. To me the RD2000 is a no brainer when compared to the RD800 because of the inclusion of the V-Piano engine with its extensive editing. Now for $2499 you get a better action, v-piano tech, improved supernatural EP's, flash wave expansion to download new sounds and much more comprehensive master keyboard controller features all in a package that is still relatively giggable. I'll take it! I'd say cough up the extra cash and spend your money once rather than get something you know will probably sell after you play the latest and greatest. I see the RD2000 as being a purchase that will last a while for me because of many of the uncompromising technologies included in it. When I need new piano sounds I simply construct them with the V-piano tech. When I want a different kind of vintage EP I simply mess around with the supernatural parameters to create "my sound". Finally when I need "other" sounds I simply go on the Axial site and download them.

Very much enjoyed reading all these thoughts, and I personally am about to place a pre-order for the RD-2000 with Sweetwater because it simply gives me all the MIDI functionality I need, whereas the RD-800 I have now is AWESOME but not the best for MIDI. Anyone who is interested in the RD-800 in the USA, I have one for sale on Ebay right now. Excellent condition and comes in flight case with pedal and manual.

I figure with my Nord Electro 5D and an RD-2000, that should cover most any hardware and software needs.

Here is a link, and I am open to counter offers as well. http://www.ebay.com/itm/122325430978?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Macsaint777, welcome to the forum!



May I ask what kind of MIDI functionality the RD-2000 offers that is lacking in your RD-800?

Kind regards,
James
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The RD-2000 has an internal USB interface, so you don't need a sound card. You can go directly from a soft synth through USB into the speakers of the RD-2000. You can record directly from the RD-2000 to the computer without audio cables, etc.

Beakybird, yes you're right.

However, while certainly useful, I'm not sure that's not strictly MIDI related, is it?

Cheers,
James
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It's an audio interface. You can record audio directly to DAW without 1/4" cables. I assume it's MIDI capable. I read somewhere though that the audio is 44khz, inferior to most soundcards.

Beakybird, again, the RD-2000's built-in audio interface is undoubtedly very useful.

However, Macsaint777 mentioned that his/her RD-800 is "not the best for MIDI", so I was thinking more along the lines of how the board is used controlling zones, key ranges, etc.

I expect Macsaint777 will return shortly to confirm if he/she was referring to the built-in audio interface on the RD-2000, or another improvement more specifically related to MIDI functionality.

Cheers,
James
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Apologies for being away so long! I was specifically referring to the knobs and faders that are set up to govern 8 different zones, and very easily with the touch of the red/green indicator LED buttons. I used to use (I did indeed sell it last week) my RD-800 for controlling various MIDI parameters in Omnisphere and Keyscape (Spectrasonics) but I was always bothered by the fact that the RD did not have a modulation wheel. I typically assigned my modulation function, usually filter cutoff- to one of the knobs on the RD. I found the knobs not so good for sweeping filter cutoff quickly, and I am hoping the RD-2000 does not have the same stopping point in the middle of the knobs as the RD-800 does. I placed a pre-order for the RD-2000 with Sweetwater and just order a new MacBook Pro to replace my late 2013 model, so I am looking forward to have a vast amount of power and MIDI capability on hand. With the RD-2000 covering keyboard sounds, my Nord Electro 5D covering Organ and whatever samples I need to import, and then the Mac for software, I think that should do it for me! Speaking of MIDI and the RD-800, I also found the lack of versatility for external controls to be rather frustrating. Example: I hooked up a Jupiter 80 (which I sold last week as well) to the RD-800 and I could not find a way to transmit ONLY keyboard MIDI and not controller MIDI to the JP-80. It was really strange because even my Nord E5D, which I consider very very basic in the MIDI department- has the ability to not receive external controls and still have its sounds triggered. The way Scott Tibbs shows the RD-2000 working so well with MainStage, it looks like they designed it with a good deal more "Master-Controller" functionality in mind, whereas the RD-800 is a fantastic stage piano, it is not best as a MIDI controller beyond basic functions. Kawai James, Thank you for the welcome! Good to be here! Dave Ferris, you were instrumental (yes pun intended) in my decision to pre-order the RD-2000. Sweetwater matched the price AltoMusic quoted me, which was a GOOD BIT under list for the RD-2000, so according to Sweetwater, February 12 is when they expect the RD-2000 to arrive. Can't Wait!

I work as Apple tech support and type for a living as a Senior Advisor. Please forgive any typos as I have been typing for a good 12 hours now.


Blessings!

Roland Cloud Rainlink

Tera

Macsaint777, thanks for the clarification.

It certainly sounds like you'll have an excellent setup between the Roland, Nord, and Mac!

Cheers,
James
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